vivi wrote: ↑Thu Aug 24, 2023 12:23 pmWhat's stopping these people from buying a hap40 kotetsu?Kale wrote: ↑Wed Aug 23, 2023 10:02 pmWe just don't see many kitchen knives in newer high-performing steels. People ARE willing to spend a lot on kitchen knives... but the high-end stuff is typically Japanese-made and driven by a culture of tradition.
I'm surprised there isn't at least more interest on the Spyderco forum in kitchen knives in lc200n or magnacut... it's less about corrosion resistance than having the toughness and edge stability to make high-performing super-slicey blades (in fact, rex45 and k390 would be great too!).
https://www.chefknivestogo.com/kohawahakn.html
There's plenty of ZDP189 kitchen knives too.
Even Spyderco went with aogami super instead of magnacut, rex45, k390 etc. for their high end culinary knives.
The steels used in japanese cutlery are popular because they work well.
Those traditional Japanese steels are.. 1, easier to work work with, have excellent machinability, can readily be hammer forged, etc. This is honestly why they were what they are, traditionally wasn't selected because it was the ultimate steel, it was selected because it was good enough and yet critically it was very easy for the smith, the guy that hammers on hot metal, to work with. A lot of users love them because the combo of their high hardness, fine grain and low abrasion resistance makes them very easy to get very sharp. Most "end users" aren't skilled sharpeners so they love that it's effortless for even themselves to get a knife so sharp with such little effort. And as long as they have decent geometry they're gonna cut well, ie go through ingredients well, regardless.
Hap40 is a repurposed cobalt high speed tool steel promoted by CKTG. They are a huge seller of Japanese knives in the US. It's their influence alone that has made this a thing. Even still it's a very niche thing. It's not a common knife steel you'd find in Japan at all. On paper it seems like it would be an interesting choice but the fact is it has many issues as well. What makes this steel unique is it's ability to achieve very hard highness (65+ rc) without a very high carbide content. It's not without it's own issues. For one thing because of it's vanadium content it doesn't play nicely with your Japanese waterstones like basically any other kitchen knife steel would including ZDP189 which is ofc very high carbide but its all chromium carbide. You're going to want to use superabrasives on this stuff. It's not nice to work with in general, poor machinability, prone to warping, at the higher hardness it readily rusts, etc. Compared to somethin like say m4 it's just objectively inferior in every way as a knife steel. It's not a bad steel just often misunderstood. For one thing despite being a hassle to sharpen without diamonds it actually has less abrasion resistance in the catra test than even R2/SG2 when you normalize for hardness. CKTG have done a great job promoting this stuff but imho they haven't been 100% forthright with the customers about it. MTC kitchen which also sell Sukenari knives, one of the very few that have models in this steel, is more honest in their description about what to expect. They're not just gonna label it "voodoo steel" and call it a day. Which is whatever, so many knife dealers do, especially when it's a thing they popularized and promoted. Anyway I will end this rant there. From a purely practical perspective, i have never seen a any kitchen knives made of this steel that were ground thinly enough out of the box to warrant the niche steel choice. Most folks would be happier with a well designed kitchen knife made of something "boring" like AEBL in all honesty. It's got more toughness than a kitchen knife should ever require, is actually stainless, can take very fine edges, and is very easy to maintain and sharpen. It's too bad you really don't find any non custom kitchen knives made of AEBL that are hardened above 61 rc. I'm generally not big on cobalt steels especially for kitchen knives but like the first comment said knife steel matters much less than many would assume in this context.
