Am I missing out on S110V?

[DukeBrnz]

I’ve successfully avoided the high edge retention steel bug for most of my k ice hoarding career but after getting some time in with an S90V N5 and Chief.. I’m thinking I’ve been missing out!

Now that I’ve finally warmed up to S90V. I’m starting to wonder if I was wrong about these “hard to sharpen”, “brittle” and high edge retention steels. From what I’ve read, S110V seems to give great corrosion resistance along with similar characteristics to S90V.

So, is it worth it to invest in a S110V Native, to be used as a high performance pseudo-Salt, or is it close enough to S90V that I can skip it? And if I should bite the bullet: Is there a particular model you love in this steel?

[Sharp Guy]

Personally, I don't think you're missing out on anything. I still have one S110V knife but moved my others on awhile back. I only want knives that I can easily touch up on the Sharpmaker. I can't do that with S110V even with CBN rods. I have too many other good steels that I like including S90V

BTW, I've never found S110V to be brittle

[DukeBrnz]

Personally, I don't think you're missing out on anything. I still have one S110V knife but moved my others on awhile back. I only want knives that I can easily touch up on the Sharpmaker. I can't do that with S110V even with CBN rods. I have too many other good steels that I like including S90V

BTW, I've never found S110V to be brittle

Oh, it doesn’t sharpen up as easily as S90V does? Yikes.

[Sharp Guy]

As far as stainless steels are concerned I favor S90V over S110V. I don't want a steel with crazy edge retention if it takes that much more work just to touch up the edge then it's probably not for me. I can touch up S90V on the Sharpmaker brown rods. I struggle to do the same with S110V

[Guts]

Well if you were wanting a high edge retention stainless, S90V technically has higher edge retention than S110V so you're not really missing anything in that regard. See knife steel nerds' edge retention tests for more info https://knifesteelnerds.com/2020/05/01/ ... fe-steels/.

[Subverto]

S90V has higher edge retention and is easier to sharpen. I don't think you're missing anything.

[Traditional.Sharpening]

I’ve successfully avoided the high edge retention steel bug for most of my k ice hoarding career but after getting some time in with an S90V N5 and Chief.. I’m thinking I’ve been missing out!

Now that I’ve finally warmed up to S90V. I’m starting to wonder if I was wrong about these “hard to sharpen”, “brittle” and high edge retention steels. From what I’ve read, S110V seems to give great corrosion resistance along with similar characteristics to S90V.

So, is it worth it to invest in a S110V Native, to be used as a high performance pseudo-Salt, or is it close enough to S90V that I can skip it? And if I should bite the bullet: Is there a particular model you love in this steel?

IMO, your post has not provided sufficient information to suggest S110V would actually be an improvement in your case. Without knowing how you sharpen, what sort of edge geometry and finish you prefer, what you will be cutting, how long you will expect to cut to low levels of sharpness. etc. This is like asking which person runs faster without setting boundaries or scenarios. Which person runs faster in waist deep snow vs dry pavement, etc.

[Manifestgtr]

S110V is great under two circumstances…first, you’re an experienced sharpener who can get a good low/medium grit edge (I prefer to take my S110V no lower than 2 microns…typically 8 microns). Secondly, you’re looking for high level stainlessness. That’s S110V’s biggest asset, imo. S90V sharpens up a bit easier and has a bit better edge retention, all else being equal…but it’s not as stainless as S110V.

[DukeBrnz]

S110V is great under two circumstances…first, you’re an experienced sharpener who can get a good low/medium grit edge (I prefer to take my S110V no lower than 2 microns…typically 8 microns). Secondly, you’re looking for high level stainlessness. That’s S110V’s biggest asset, imo. S90V sharpens up a bit easier and has a bit better edge retention, all else being equal…but it’s not as stainless as S110V.

I don’t go lower than a DMT fine stone, then touch up on sharpmaker and strops. I wouldn’t say I’m an amazing sharpener but my knives are sharp. Always willing to learn though, ya know?

And the stainless thing is kinda relevant to me, I love to be outside, hiking up creeks, MTBing and kayaking. My normal carry for that is a N5 Salt but I’ve usually gotta keep a dmt diafold in my bag though because it loses a really sharp edge pretty quickly on hardwood or things like dirty rope.

[DukeBrnz]

Whoops. Double tap

[Paul Ardbeg]

I've got the Manix 2 LW in S110v years ago. I love a good edge retention but I do prefer other steels more as the edge retention of e.g. Cruwear is good enough for my use and much easier to sharpen. I did never had an issue with chipping S110v like I did for instance my ZDP189 recently 🫣 However s110v is one of the more brittle steels in my collection.

[DukeBrnz]

I've got the Manix 2 LW in S110v years ago. I love a good edge retention but I do prefer other steels more as the edge retention of e.g. Cruwear is good enough for my use and much easier to sharpen. I did never had an issue with chipping S110v like I did for instance my ZDP189 recently 🫣 However s110v is one of the more brittle steels in my collection.

Yeah I’m a tool steel guy from way back, k390 and Cruwear are both pretty high in my steel pantheon. S90V has been so good to me though, it really isn’t that hard to sharpen, it isn’t brittle at all and it just keeps going..

[apollo]

I love my s110v Blurple Manix 2 and for now i have not found anything i do not like about the steel.
Sharpening is a bit more time consuming if you have some slight edge damage but comparing to sharpening the 10v on my k2 its a piece of cake…

[Traditional.Sharpening]

S110V is great under two circumstances…first, you’re an experienced sharpener who can get a good low/medium grit edge (I prefer to take my S110V no lower than 2 microns…typically 8 microns). Secondly, you’re looking for high level stainlessness. That’s S110V’s biggest asset, imo. S90V sharpens up a bit easier and has a bit better edge retention, all else being equal…but it’s not as stainless as S110V.

Just want to point out here that I don't see how you can say S110V is great for someone using low/medium grit edge and then state using 2-8 micron abrasives. This is not at all what I consider to be low/medium sharpening, this is fine sharpening and it is the complete opposite type of edge that is well suited to high carbide steels in general. I would consider coarse sharpening to be in the range of 70-25 micron and medium between 15-11 micron.

Also, I don't believe that one could reliably tell the difference between S90V and S110V. The steels are so similar that I'd expect the measurable difference between the two to be simply noise in any data you may try to collect. This difference would be tiny compared to differences in grit finish at the apex, geometry of the edge, geometry of the apex, geometry of the blade. What I would expect to see is a difference in corrosion resistance and nothing more.

[Brock O Lee]

I prefer S90V. I don't think you are missing much unless you require better corrosion resistance than S90V.

[Wandering_About]

I'm a bit crazy for high vanadium steels, but I've found S110V to be quite nice. If you have the skills and correct abrasives, it's not too bad to sharpen. It doesn't deburr as nicely as some other steels, but I've found it to do much better than the "horror stories" that I've read on the internet. Not going to tell you it's the most chip resistant steel ever, but it's not been overly fragile in my experience and still has very good wear resistance if you're doing lots of cutting abrasive materials like, say, cardboard.

Here's a photo of an S110V Native that I reprofiled down thin and carried quite a lot last year.


Personal opinion right now is that if you want a Native that performs great in all areas, but doesn't have quite the raw wear resistance of S110V, find a Native 5 Salt in MagnaCut. Much as I do like S110V, if you're not into the hobby of chasing interesting steels, MagnaCut is the way to go. And it's a much more forgiving steel to sharpen.

[Traditional.Sharpening]

I’ve successfully avoided the high edge retention steel bug for most of my k ice hoarding career but after getting some time in with an S90V N5 and Chief.. I’m thinking I’ve been missing out!

Now that I’ve finally warmed up to S90V. I’m starting to wonder if I was wrong about these “hard to sharpen”, “brittle” and high edge retention steels. From what I’ve read, S110V seems to give great corrosion resistance along with similar characteristics to S90V.

So, is it worth it to invest in a S110V Native, to be used as a high performance pseudo-Salt, or is it close enough to S90V that I can skip it? And if I should bite the bullet: Is there a particular model you love in this steel?

Also worth mentioning to the OP, you have NOT been missing out on a high edge retention or high carbide steel (I take it to mean the same thing because this is the a common mistake people make that the two are in fact the same thing, which is not true). S90V has a 21% carbide volume at 2050F, S110V has 27% carbide volume. This puts both into the high carbide category and would have very similar performance because of this.

For reference, Roman Landes would categorize steels into three categories based upon edge stability that he noted in metallurgical testing. Edge stability is proportional to carbide volume, high carbide having the least edge stability -- at high polish.

From Roman Landes :

Classifed steels into three groups, type I, type II, and type III mainly based on carbide volume, 0.5-5%, 5-15%, and greater than 15% respectively. These groups needed different angles to both take and hold a high polished sharpness, 8-12, 12-20, and 20-30 degrees per side respectively. The greater the size and volume of carbide, the greater the angle required to keep the edge stable.

That would put a steel like S30V or VG-10 at the upper end of the medium carbide volume group. Those angles are the difference between the edge (apex) being stable enough to retain it's integrity and not fail. So as you see, if you were to take a knife to high polish at a low apex angle there will not in fact be higher edge retention because it would not be stable. So the reality is that high carbide is not always higher edge retention depending on how you use it.

[kakima323]

I’ve successfully avoided the high edge retention steel bug for most of my k ice hoarding career but after getting some time in with an S90V N5 and Chief.. I’m thinking I’ve been missing out!

Now that I’ve finally warmed up to S90V. I’m starting to wonder if I was wrong about these “hard to sharpen”, “brittle” and high edge retention steels. From what I’ve read, S110V seems to give great corrosion resistance along with similar characteristics to S90V.

So, is it worth it to invest in a S110V Native, to be used as a high performance pseudo-Salt, or is it close enough to S90V that I can skip it? And if I should bite the bullet: Is there a particular model you love in this steel?

Greetings! I wanted to take a moment to express my sincere appreciation for the time
I spent reading your post.

[Michael Janich]

Dear kakima323:

Welcome to the Spyderco Forum.

Stay safe,

Mike

[kobold]

My favorite S110V model is the Military. I never experienced chipping or any kind of edge instability, but preemptively micro-convexed it with DMT plates and maintain by freehand sharpening and stropping with diamonds as needed. Yes, it can be slightly harder to sharpen than the rest, but if i can keep it sharp, it means the only real challenge in my knife collection remains a Sandrin Torino.