Bow River Upgrade!

[farmer3]

The Bow River was my gateway into Spyderco knives. I didn't buy it because I wanted a budget knife. I bought a Spyderco because I wanted a well made knife that had value. The Bow River is a perfect design as is but deserves a better steel in 2023!

I've seen others request specific steels. The specific steel is not important. This is versatile gateway knife that spends a lot of time around water, game and camp kitchens. 9cr18mov, lc200n, 14c28n, aeb-l, and bd1n would all be worthy upgrades. Really any mid-level corrosion resistant steel with a little better edge retention would work. I'm sure one of those is available in China.

If Spyderco did this and perhaps added micarta or some checkering to the handle they would have an iconic best seller.

[vivi]

I'd like to see the full edge sharpened as well.

[Tristan_david2001]

I’d take vg10, & black linen micarta handle

[blueblur]

I’m down for anything that has more edge stability.

I took my current one down to just under 15dps and every time I use it in the kitchen I can see the edge is having a hard time at that angle. It’s quick and easy to get back in order but a touch up is required literally every time I go to use it.

How about BBB’s heat treat with AEB-L?

[kennethsime]

How about BBB’s heat treat with AEB-L?

What matters is:
1) Does the Chinese maker have access to AEB-L?
2) How is their heat treat for AEB-L?

Unless Shawn wants to fly to China to teach them.

[zhyla]

I just want to find mine. I was using it in the kitchen (long story, but it does slice) and then put it away… and can’t find it.

There was another thread recently about this. I contend for what this knife is for 8CrMoV13 is just fine. A rust proof steel would make some sense though.

[skeeg11]

What made the Bow such a hit was that it was a Phil Wilson design at an almost give-a-way price. An almost unimaginable combination. Much may depend on current sales of the Bow River at current prices. If it's still a front runner, perhaps any changes may be improbable. Instead of petitioning for an upgrade in the steel currently used in the Bow River, I would plead for an altogether different Phil Wilson design/model in a different steel. Any collaboration between Phil and Sal would be welcome TBH.

[Bolster]

Does the Bow River qualify as a "trailing point" knife? Close to it? It's an attractive design, but I've found my high-point knives get infrequent use. You folks enjoy, I'll sit this one out.

[farmer3]

Sal is the greatest designer of all time and Phil Wilson is a legend. Their collaboration resulted in a masterpiece. The steel might be outdated the design is absolutely not!

I think Blueblur hit the nail on the head. This knife reaches it full potential when sharpened more acutely. Zhyla pointed out that 8CrMoV13 is ok and technically a stainless steel but better corrosion resistance and edge retention at sharper angles would take the bow river to another level. I understand vg-10 is impossible and aeb-l may also be. But 9cr18mov (or something in this family of Chinese steels) , lc200n, 14c28n, or bd1n should be.

[blueblur]

How about BBB’s heat treat with AEB-L?

What matters is:
1) Does the Chinese maker have access to AEB-L?
2) How is their heat treat for AEB-L?

Unless Shawn wants to fly to China to teach them.

My understanding is the AEB-L mule was produced in Italy, so I don’t believe location alone makes a difference. Other factors may. Sal has said before, very little is impossible.

[Traditional.Sharpening]

I’m down for anything that has more edge stability.

I took my current one down to just under 15dps and every time I use it in the kitchen I can see the edge is having a hard time at that angle. It’s quick and easy to get back in order but a touch up is required literally every time I go to use it.

How about BBB’s heat treat with AEB-L?

How many times have you sharpened this knife? If it's still pretty new then it may take a few more sharpenings to get to unaffected steel.

Can you try to approximate what the edge angle is? Are you using a micro-bevel? What sort of damage or blunting do you think you are seeing with it? Is the edge failing by deformation?

[blueblur]

I’m down for anything that has more edge stability.

I took my current one down to just under 15dps and every time I use it in the kitchen I can see the edge is having a hard time at that angle. It’s quick and easy to get back in order but a touch up is required literally every time I go to use it.

How about BBB’s heat treat with AEB-L?

How many times have you sharpened this knife? If it's still pretty new then it may take a few more sharpenings to get to unaffected steel.

Can you try to approximate what the edge angle is? Are you using a micro-bevel? What sort of damage or blunting do you think you are seeing with it? Is the edge failing by deformation?

I set the bevel once and use the sharpmaker on the 15dps setting each time I use it. As far as the exact angle, I have an edge pro guided system and set the bevel on the bottom of the red mark and given the way the primary grind is on this model, set the primary grind on the system since there aren’t any edge flats. I know this drops the angle down a little more but I did this so I could use the lower angle on the SM for touch ups. I took off a decent amount of steel when I set the bevel.

I am using a micro bevel now, but it’s not that much less of an angle from when I set the bevel. I haven’t looked at it under a loupe but when held at the right angle against some light you can see inconsistent reflection.

After I use it next I’ll try to look at with a loupe to get a better idea of what’s going on. I can tell you though it doesn’t take much to bring the edge back and sometimes a few passes on a green compound strop brings it back.

[farmer3]

[/quote]

My understanding is the AEB-L mule was produced in Italy, so I don’t believe location alone makes a difference. Other factors may. Sal has said before, very little is impossible.
[/quote]

In that case I can still dream of the Bow River in Nitro-V.

[Matus]

I am going to assume that there is no shortage of 'good enough' steels that could be used for an upgrade here. How that would fit the existing process in the given factory is probably the real question.

[Nil Sine Numine]

New to the forum and impressed with all the knowledge found here. My first really great knife was a Delica. To be honest I bought it because it was vg-10. To me the Bow River is like the fixed blade Delica. On paper it doesn't look that impressive but it somehow works really well for most people in most situations. I think a lot of people turn it up only because of the steel.

[farmer3]

Another good comparison would be my old cellphone. It works and is made of functional material. Still I wouldn't buy the same phone today and I'd be willing to pay more for something up to date.

[BornIn1500]

Another good comparison would be my old cellphone. It works and is made of functional material. Still I wouldn't buy the same phone today and I'd be willing to pay more for something up to date.

But your old cellphone is obsolete because it probably isn't compatible with apps made today. It can't be used the same as when it was new. A knife is a knife. It still cuts the same things just as good as the day you bought it. Meat and fruit are still the same toughness. Rope didn't get tougher.

[Toucan]

Something to consider is what steels the factory will work with. If it is the same factory that makes the Chinese value folders. the options are 8Cr, M4, S35VN, and BD1N.

I've never owned S35VN (somehow!), but I like all the other steels just fine. I'd like a BD1N variant if it could keep the spirit/ethos of value that the Bow River has. That has to be shipped oveseas though, so at that point it may not be that much savings over S35VN. Who knows.

[Nil Sine Numine]

9Cr18Mov, BD1N, and 10cr15comov would all be worthy upgrades. Please consider it Sal!

[weeping minora]

How about BBB’s heat treat with AEB-L?

What matters is:
1) Does the Chinese maker have access to AEB-L?
2) How is their heat treat for AEB-L?

Unless Shawn wants to fly to China to teach them.

My understanding is the AEB-L mule was produced in Italy, so I don’t believe location alone makes a difference. Other factors may. Sal has said before, very little is impossible.

I'd be surprised to learn that Shawn actually flew out to Italy to work directly with Maniago, on the AEB-L heat treat.

Would be nice to see this upgrade happen for all those interested, as the design is stellar and I believe the interest is there. Personally, I'd rather see the model get implemented to another factory for an upgrade in materials; however, I don't see that happening. Looking forward to a possible future Spyderco/Phil Wilson collaboration for that to potentially happen.