FRN v. FRCP

[JackRussell]

As nylon is a copolymer, anyone know the difference between FRN and FRCP? Just being curious.

[Wartstein]

Several threads on this already (of course it's fine you started another one, don t get me wrong).

I'll link one here (directly to my reply there) viewtopic.php?t=92026#p1609719

One real difference is that FRCP can be made translucent, FRN not as far as I know

[mongo1958]

Here you go.
https://www.marineapproved.com/knife-handle-materials/

It sates the following:
1. DuPont Zytel Fiberglass Reinforced Nylon (FRN) / Glass Filled Nylon (GFN) / Fiber-Reinforced Copolymer (FRCP)
"Just as a side note, FRN and GFN are the same and Zytel is simply the brand name for a specific FRN made by DuPont. FRCP is essentially the same as FRN/GFN but has a slightly lower melting point but is a tad bit harder. In the world of knives, the differences are negligible."

[JackRussell]

Thanks for the links. I should have searched more thoroughly but in addition to being curious, I'm also lazy.

[Wartstein]

Thanks for the links. I should have searched more thoroughly but in addition to being curious, I'm also lazy.

As said: I personally think it is fine or even good to start new threads from time to time on topics that actually have been discussed before (probably MOST topics have anyway...)

/ One thing I still wonder a bit: Is the Golden "FRN-recipy" a bit different to the Seki "FRN recipy"?
To me Golden FRN feels a bit "frcp-isher" than the "softer" Seki FRN, if that makes any sense.

[cabfrank]

It makes sense to me, and I agree.

[Doc Dan]

Maybe Spyderco tweaked the recipe so that Golden FRCP and FRN feel nearly the same? I like the feel of the Japanese in hand, but I like the added and obvious hardness of the American FRCP. I know they are both pretty tough, maybe as tough as G10 or tougher. I'm not sure about that, but it is good stuff. Someone on this forum was on top of a satellite tower and dropped their Manix and it didn't faze that FRCP at all.

[mongo1958]

Maybe Spyderco tweaked the recipe so that Golden FRCP and FRN feel nearly the same? I like the feel of the Japanese in hand, but I like the added and obvious hardness of the American FRCP. I know they are both pretty tough, maybe as tough as G10 or tougher. I'm not sure about that, but it is good stuff. Someone on this forum was on top of a satellite tower and dropped their Manix and it didn't faze that FRCP at all.

Wow, I'm impressed. How are the metal parts, any bent or cracked metal?

[RustyIron]

As nylon is a copolymer, anyone know the difference between FRN and FRCP? Just being curious.

I've asked the same question, a lot has been said about it, but I still don't know. I'm curious about the physical characteristics: strength, flexibility, impact resistance, coefficient of friction, thermal conductivity, and even electrical conductivity. There are a lot of subjective impressions of the materials, but if it can't be stated in numbers, I can't understand it.

Perhaps the answer to the question is top secret, and the exact composition known only those with Secret Sypderco Security Society. Or maybe FRN and FRCP are the exact same thing and the differentiation was just thought up as a lark. I certainly can't say.

At the end of the day, are we any the lesser for not knowing the exact composition of the handles of our pocket knives? Or is it sufficient to know that our knife handles aren't going to break, bend, or stain, and they're molded into a bidirectional pattern that is both pretty and prevents it from flying out of our hands unexpectedly? If we don't know the cacao content of our chocolate chip cookie, is it any less delicious?

[Wartstein]

As nylon is a copolymer, anyone know the difference between FRN and FRCP? Just being curious.

[f.... Or maybe FRN and FRCP are the exact same thing and the differentiation was just thought up as a lark. ....

I am pretty sure they can´t be "exact the same".

There is either an article on a "byte" or a vid on the Spyderco youtube channel (can´t recall) specifically about the Manix and its history, and I am pretty sure there is mentioned something along the lines that FRCP was originally developed as a material, that could be made transparent or at least translucent for "showing off" the internal components of the Manix 2 LW. Something that is not possible with FRN.

[Doc Dan]

Maybe Spyderco tweaked the recipe so that Golden FRCP and FRN feel nearly the same? I like the feel of the Japanese in hand, but I like the added and obvious hardness of the American FRCP. I know they are both pretty tough, maybe as tough as G10 or tougher. I'm not sure about that, but it is good stuff. Someone on this forum was on top of a satellite tower and dropped their Manix and it didn't faze that FRCP at all.

Wow, I'm impressed. How are the metal parts, any bent or cracked metal?

He said no damage at all. There are pics in the thread, too. You can do a search and probably find it.

[Wartstein]

Maybe Spyderco tweaked the recipe so that Golden FRCP and FRN feel nearly the same? I like the feel of the Japanese in hand, but I like the added and obvious hardness of the American FRCP. I know they are both pretty tough, maybe as tough as G10 or tougher. I'm not sure about that, but it is good stuff. Someone on this forum was on top of a satellite tower and dropped their Manix and it didn't faze that FRCP at all.

There is this quote by Michal Janich, suggesting that at least in a way FRN is "thougher" (perhaps not the right term though??) than G10:

"The properties of G-10 and FRN are very different. For knives that have full stainless steel liners, it's not an issue. For knives that are purpose-designed around lightweight handles--like the Para 3 Lightweight--it's much more complicated than simply offering G-10 replacement scales for the FRN handles. Even if G-10 was machined to replicate the detail of an injection-molded part, it's layered construction wouldn't handle the stresses in the same way."

(viewtopic.php?t=89908&start=80#p1532157)

[yowzer]

One thing I still wonder a bit: Is the Golden "FRN-recipy" a bit different to the Seki "FRN recipy"?
To me Golden FRN feels a bit "frcp-isher" than the "softer" Seki FRN, if that makes any sense.

My N5LW handle feel hard and plasticy like the M2LW - I don't care for it, but my P3LWs and old FRN UKPKs feel nicer in the hand, more like my Seki and Taiwan FRN knives.

In past threads people have suggested this is due to the mold finishing and/or a different percentage of fiberglass threads in the material.

[Bill1170]

All I know for sure is that the softer feel of Seki FRN feels better in my hand than the harder FRCP on my Manix LW. I don’t own any Golden or Taichung FRN, but I hope it feels more like the Seki recipe. G-10 is okay, but FRN is tougher and I prefer its hand feel.

[Bemo]

In my experience the N5 LW and Manix LW FRCP are more rigid. The Seki FRN is more flexible and definitely has a "softer" feel/texture to it. And maybe that's the deal, the texture is very different. My Taichung FRN (Sage 5 LW, Chaparall) have metal liners so I don't thin that's a fair comparison. Although I love the Taichung FRN pattern; maybe my favorite.

[Larry_Mott]

Yep, for some reason FRCP feels a little like LEGO and FRN feels ..well nice :)

[Netherend]

Yep, for some reason FRCP feels a little like LEGO and FRN feels ..well nice :)

Golden FRN fees like a Lego and that is a compliment considering how protective Lego is over their recipe.
Seki FRN feels softer than golden frn

FRCP on my Manix lightweight is the most course of all. It feels rougher in hand than FrN. All three take hits (I.e. dropping the knife) better than g10. I have chipped g10 more than once by dropping my knife. I have yet to do any damage to the frn and frcp handles.

Bidirectional texturing really takes the grip to the next level. Spyderco bidirectional texturing really helps increase the user dexterity when using the knife.

Spyderco handles feel premium. My knives from other brands such as benchmade and hogue do not feel anywhere near as high quality and durable as my spydie handles. Aluminum handles like I have on a few kershaws feel like great quality but are slippery. I do enjoy the rubberized handles found on some Fallkniven knives and kabar fixed blades but nothing comes close to the confidence inspired by spyderco handles.

Handle quality is one of the reasons I always reach for a spyderco knife whenever I have to actually do work with a knife. They feel the safest in hand and won’t slip in wet conditions.

[Evil D]

I think the only real world difference I've noticed is FRCP seems more likely to chip or take damage from drops, which ties right in to being harder. I can tell you it's still extremely tough, I deliberately destroyed a Manix 2 once and it took a lot of effort to get it apart. I really don't see it breaking unless you're really doing stuff you should know better than to do with any folder, let alone a "plastic" one.

[Bemo]

Honestly I think the FRN/FRCP is easily tougher that the old 1mm brass liners and delrin scales on the original Old Timers traditional folders. Those have lasted a day or two.

[prndltech]

I think the only real world difference I've noticed is FRCP seems more likely to chip or take damage from drops, which ties right in to being harder. I can tell you it's still extremely tough, I deliberately destroyed a Manix 2 once and it took a lot of effort to get it apart. I really don't see it breaking unless you're really doing stuff you should know better than to do with any folder, let alone a "plastic" one.

yup. you won't break FRN or FRCP handled Spyderco unless you deliberately try too. I've done things with them I shouldn't, thinking to myself " surely not... " and to my surprise, they're all still good to go.


that being said I prefer the feel of seki frn in hand compared to golden frcp