Shaman 15V, Bad QC

[SpyderPhreak]

I don't understand how some don't realize that the topic moved on from the OP in specific, to generalized flipper discussion, quite a few pages ago... Again, QC issues aside.

[kennbr34]

logical posts, however inflammatory they might be, are being treated as defense of flipping. but, as i (and others) already noted, flipping shouldn't even be a part of this discussion. many of you need to take a step back and relax. this thread isn't about flipping; it's about qc. you all sound like politicians that change the subject to some recent tragedy so people won't notice or remember what they're doing wrong.

one last thing... even if this dude is flipping the knives, that's his business. if you know he's doing it and you think he's wrong, say your peace and move on, but to not know and still turn the thread into all this...? you all are wrong about your moral superiority.

They're being treated as defense of flipping because that's what they are. It was entirely possible for every person here to have both pointed out that it's unfair to accuse the OP of being a flipper, and to encourage the discussion to focus on the QC issue, but the extra mile was given to defending flipping/scalping.

I agree that it's not cool to accuse the OP of this with little to no real evidence of it, but the more people say, "It's his business," the more I'm going to exercise my own volition to speak against flipping and scalping. If people don't want to hear it, then maybe they shouldn't defend it.

I also agree that tempers and passions don't need to flare up anywhere near as high as they have. Personally, I'm quite relaxed in making the comments I have, and I tend to grant the same assumption that everyone else that's defending flipping and scalping aren't seething with rage either. I'm just not going to let that kind of view point run unopposed, and not to try to convince anyone, but just to maintain contention. Otherwise the consensus becomes that flipping and scalping is okay, and I think we lose the more that becomes acceptable.

[ladybug93]

I don't understand how some don't realize that the topic moved on from the OP in specific, to generalized flipper discussion, quite a few pages ago... Again, QC issues aside.

yeah. that's my point. it's a thread about qc, so stop the flipping tirade and baseless accusations. if i was the op, i wouldn't come back to this mess either and i'd probably be done with this forum after people crying to ban me when they don't even know if i'm guilty of what they're accusing me of.

[ladybug93]

logical posts, however inflammatory they might be, are being treated as defense of flipping. but, as i (and others) already noted, flipping shouldn't even be a part of this discussion. many of you need to take a step back and relax. this thread isn't about flipping; it's about qc. you all sound like politicians that change the subject to some recent tragedy so people won't notice or remember what they're doing wrong.

one last thing... even if this dude is flipping the knives, that's his business. if you know he's doing it and you think he's wrong, say your peace and move on, but to not know and still turn the thread into all this...? you all are wrong about your moral superiority.

They're being treated as defense of flipping because that's what they are. It was entirely possible for every person here to have both pointed out that it's unfair to accuse the OP of being a flipper, and to encourage the discussion to focus on the QC issue, but the extra mile was given to defending flipping/scalping.

I agree that it's not cool to accuse the OP of this with little to no real evidence of it, but the more people say, "It's his business," the more I'm going to exercise my own volition to speak against flipping and scalping. If people don't want to hear it, then maybe they shouldn't defend it.

I also agree that tempers and passions don't need to flare up anywhere near as high as they have. Personally, I'm quite relaxed in making the comments I have, and I tend to grant the same assumption that everyone else that's defending flipping and scalping aren't seething with rage either. I'm just not going to let that kind of view point run unopposed, and not to try to convince anyone, but just to maintain contention. Otherwise the consensus becomes that flipping and scalping is okay, and I think we lose the more that becomes acceptable.

calling for banning of a new member with six posts because they bought three copies of a knife and had a qc problem sounds like seething rage to me. i'm not saying you did that. i don't remember who did. i'm just saying that's not a calm response.

i don't think flipping is right, but i'm not sure i'd go so far as to say it's completely wrong either. none of that's the point though. the discussion didn't even need to happen here. it was a knee jerk reaction by people that were/are angry. and saying it's his business isn't exactly a glowing endorsement of the act either. it's just saying he's just as free to do it as you are to not like it.

[SpyderPhreak]

I also agree that tempers and passions don't need to flare up anywhere near as high as they have. Personally, I'm quite relaxed in making the comments I have, and I tend to grant the same assumption that everyone else that's defending flipping and scalping aren't seething with rage either. I'm just not going to let that kind of view point run unopposed, and not to try to convince anyone, but just to maintain contention. Otherwise the consensus becomes that flipping and scalping is okay, and I think we lose the more that becomes acceptable.

Personally, I'm not worked up as much as some might think. That said, I am, however, vehemently opposed to flipping, and people being taken advantage of in general. Not just online, IRL too. I am not afraid to speak my mind about it, stand up against it, and challenge those people who defend it. It's predatory and disgusting, I won't put up with it or support it with my money.

i don't think flipping is right, but i'm not sure i'd go so far as to say it's completely wrong either. none of that's the point though. the discussion didn't even need to happen here. it was a knee jerk reaction by people that were/are angry. and saying it's his business isn't exactly a glowing endorsement of the act either. it's just saying he's just as free to do it as you are to not like it.

For whatever it is worth, the thread and related discussions have been allowed to remain. Admin is aware of the thread and has clearly chosen to keep it open, without even popping in to say anything about it. I'd say, with that being the case, we're not terribly off topic. :shrug:

[kennbr34]

logical posts, however inflammatory they might be, are being treated as defense of flipping. but, as i (and others) already noted, flipping shouldn't even be a part of this discussion. many of you need to take a step back and relax. this thread isn't about flipping; it's about qc. you all sound like politicians that change the subject to some recent tragedy so people won't notice or remember what they're doing wrong.

one last thing... even if this dude is flipping the knives, that's his business. if you know he's doing it and you think he's wrong, say your peace and move on, but to not know and still turn the thread into all this...? you all are wrong about your moral superiority.

They're being treated as defense of flipping because that's what they are. It was entirely possible for every person here to have both pointed out that it's unfair to accuse the OP of being a flipper, and to encourage the discussion to focus on the QC issue, but the extra mile was given to defending flipping/scalping.

I agree that it's not cool to accuse the OP of this with little to no real evidence of it, but the more people say, "It's his business," the more I'm going to exercise my own volition to speak against flipping and scalping. If people don't want to hear it, then maybe they shouldn't defend it.

I also agree that tempers and passions don't need to flare up anywhere near as high as they have. Personally, I'm quite relaxed in making the comments I have, and I tend to grant the same assumption that everyone else that's defending flipping and scalping aren't seething with rage either. I'm just not going to let that kind of view point run unopposed, and not to try to convince anyone, but just to maintain contention. Otherwise the consensus becomes that flipping and scalping is okay, and I think we lose the more that becomes acceptable.

calling for banning of a new member with six posts because they bought three copies of a knife and had a qc problem sounds like seething rage to me. i'm not saying you did that. i don't remember who did. i'm just saying that's not a calm response.

i don't think flipping is right, but i'm not sure i'd go so far as to say it's completely wrong either. none of that's the point though. the discussion didn't even need to happen here. it was a knee jerk reaction by people that were/are angry. and saying it's his business isn't exactly a glowing endorsement of the act either. it's just saying he's just as free to do it as you are to not like it.

Yeah, I agree, civility was definitely lost pretty quickly. It's unfortunate because it tends to make us seem divided into factions. Then as much as I want to speak against flipping, it probably seems like I'm mostly "just saying hooray for my side" as the old song goes.

On the other hand, hopefully the more people have cool and calm interactions while maintaining their distinct viewpoint, it can turn the tide of the thread and not necessitate it being locked.

I will say I am glad that some people here chose to try to help the OP, whether he is a flipper or not. Just as I think defending flipping hurts us, so does ignoring QC issues as some form of punitive action against flippers. I do understand the frustration, but I can see the point that vitriol such as that is probably self-defeating too.

[Paraguy]

It’s his own business to sell it or not. He had a very specific question about QC and then everyone assumed that the fact that he might be a flipper gives them license to bully and dog pile on him. Can we all just act like adults. It seems like everyone is getting salty that other people managed to score a knife that they missed out on. Side note: if you feel this way the knife is still available at Knife Center. There is nothing wrong with selling goods you’ve acquired ethically. Not everyone is able to afford this hobby and some may have to monetize it. We live in a capitalist society; sometimes you’re gonna win sometimes you’re gonna lose. However it’s very unattractive to hear people pout about how unfair it is they missed out on a luxury item when someone else managed to get one. I don’t think any of us actually NEED a limited edition 15v shaman especially when we already have a few other models. When someone chooses to sell instead of keep they are making a financially responsible decision and delaying gratification to which I congratulate them. You don’t know that this guys financial situation is. Don’t be a jerk. Not everyone can afford to keep every exclusive and sprint run.

[Paraguy]

Listening to people complain about flippers and the free market is like watching someone shaking their fist at the sky, complaining that it’s blue.

[SpyderPhreak]

Complaints about the practice of flipping does NOT mean someone missed out on the knife du jour in question. Big assumption by a lot of folks.

Side note: if you feel this way the knife is still available at Knife Center.

Actually, no. It went OOS 30 minutes prior to your post.

[Paraguy]

Complaints about the practice of flipping does NOT mean someone missed out on the knife du jour in question. Big assumption by a lot of folks.

Side note: if you feel this way the knife is still available at Knife Center.

Actually, no. It went OOS 30 minutes prior to your post.

Touché. However I think it’s a reasonable assumption. I can’t think of many other reasons why someone would get upset about it.

[Airlsee]

This thread has devolved into pure silliness and a place for irrelevancy to flourish. That doesn't mean it should be locked, but only that the voices still adamantly opining should be viewed as silage.

It simply gives a reason to check in, the same way oddities or reality TV demand attention...oddly the most intransigent voices are from generally slumberous members, who have suddenly become doggedly mulish.

[Albatross]

This thread is embarrassing.

[BAX229]

OP…can you please post a picture holding all three knives and todays newspaper. Thank you

[Bolster]

Listening to people complain about flippers and the free market is like watching someone shaking their fist at the sky, complaining that it’s blue.

Since the thread has morphed into the topic of flipping...

What some people call a "free market" is a network of complex rules and regulations and laws and lawsuits and counter-suits and negotiations. Where you see blue sky, I see a sticky spider's web. Even M.A.P. is a form of "free market" price control. The term "free market" should always be in quotes, if you ask me. It's an oxymoron.

While I am not familiar with small-time flipping laws, other forms of flipping are regulated under various price gouging laws: www.findlaw.com/consumer/consumer-trans ... state.html Try flipping real estate in less than a half year and you'll run into a wall of laws restricting your ability to sell.

In none of the laws that I have read, is flipping condoned or considered a harmless activity. If the argument is that real-estate is larger than a knife, I'd quote Wilde: “We’ve already established [what you are], madam. Now we’re just haggling over the price.”

[Mushroom]

Complaints about the practice of flipping does NOT mean someone missed out on the knife du jour in question. Big assumption by a lot of folks.

Side note: if you feel this way the knife is still available at Knife Center.

Actually, no. It went OOS 30 minutes prior to your post.

Touché. However I think it’s a responsible assumption. I can’t think of many other reasons why someone would get upset about it.

He's just virtue signaling at this point. He knows how badly he hijacked this thread and now he’s looking for any way he can to dodge accountability. Trying to claim the moral high ground was the road he chose.

[SpyderPhreak]

Complaints about the practice of flipping does NOT mean someone missed out on the knife du jour in question. Big assumption by a lot of folks.

Side note: if you feel this way the knife is still available at Knife Center.

Actually, no. It went OOS 30 minutes prior to your post.

Touché. However I think it’s a responsible assumption. I can’t think of many other reasons why someone would get upset about it.

He's just virtue signaling at this point. He knows how badly he hijacked this thread and now he’s looking for any way he can to dodge accountability. Trying to claim the moral high ground was the road he chose.

Yeah it was aaaalllll me. (ETA - rofl, I didn't post until halfway down page two...) At least you acknowledge I had the moral high ground.

[SpyderPhreak]

Dang it, must have hit reply instead of edit on above post.

[Paraguy]

Deleted

[Mushroom]

Complaints about the practice of flipping does NOT mean someone missed out on the knife du jour in question. Big assumption by a lot of folks.





Actually, no. It went OOS 30 minutes prior to your post.

Touché. However I think it’s a responsible assumption. I can’t think of many other reasons why someone would get upset about it.

He's just virtue signaling at this point. He knows how badly he hijacked this thread and now he’s looking for any way he can to dodge accountability. Trying to claim the moral high ground was the road he chose.

Yeah it was aaaalllll me. (ETA - rofl, I didn't post until halfway down page two...) At least you acknowledge I had the moral high ground.

Tried ≠ Had

[Paraguy]

Listening to people complain about flippers and the free market is like watching someone shaking their fist at the sky, complaining that it’s blue.

Since the thread has morphed into the topic of flipping...

What some people call a "free market" is a network of complex rules and regulations and laws and lawsuits and counter-suits and negotiations. Where you see blue sky, I see a sticky spider's web. Even M.A.P. is a form of "free market" price control. The term "free market" should always be in quotes, if you ask me. It's an oxymoron.

While I am not familiar with small-time flipping laws, other forms of flipping are regulated under various price gouging laws: www.findlaw.com/consumer/consumer-trans ... state.html Try flipping real estate in less than a half year and you'll run into a wall of laws restricting your ability to sell.

In none of the laws that I have read, is flipping condoned or considered a harmless activity. If the argument is that real-estate is larger than a knife, I'd quote Wilde: “We’ve already established [what you are], madam. Now we’re just haggling over the price.”

You raise some good points here and I definitely agree that in certain circumstances flipping can be immoral, for instance when people take advantage of the urgency to price gouge on commodities like toilet paper. However all the points you raised do not discount flipping in its entirety especially the flipping of luxury items which no one ever HAS to buy for survival. Additionally I think it’s hard to place an exact value on highly collectible items because of their rarity so it’s hard to pinpoint at what point something becomes price gouging.In fact I’m not sure if you can really price gouge on collectible luxury items that are not a necessity for daily life per se.