Mule #12 Cruwear
Mule #12 Cruwear
Mule #12 of Cruwear in 2011. This was the first tool steel offering in the series, and the mule that was re-heat-treated and then underlined CRUWEAR on the ricasso, I think. The description on the Spyderco website states: "Upstate New York's Crucible Steel manufacturers Cru-Wear..." But that's not the same as CPM, Crucible Powder Metallurgy, is it?
Was Mule #12 a powdered or ingot version of Cruwear? If the ingot version, any idea of how much toughness would be reduced for the ingot vs the powdered version of Cruwear?
========== Edit ========
Do'h, question retracted. JuPaul posted the answer in another thread. Cruwear around 30 ft lbs; CMP Cruwear around 43 ft lbs.
Both plenty tough, given that many knife steels (typically stainless) are <10 ft lbs for toughness.
========== Edit, Edit ========
Sal said the Cruwear mule was powdered! See quote below.
Was Mule #12 a powdered or ingot version of Cruwear? If the ingot version, any idea of how much toughness would be reduced for the ingot vs the powdered version of Cruwear?
========== Edit ========
Do'h, question retracted. JuPaul posted the answer in another thread. Cruwear around 30 ft lbs; CMP Cruwear around 43 ft lbs.
Both plenty tough, given that many knife steels (typically stainless) are <10 ft lbs for toughness.
========== Edit, Edit ========
Sal said the Cruwear mule was powdered! See quote below.
Last edited by Bolster on Thu Jan 19, 2023 1:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Mule #12 Cruwear
And all these years I thought 52100 and CPM M4 were tool steels.
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Re: Mule #12 Cruwear
I'd call M4 a tool steel, but not 52100.yablanowitz wrote: ↑Tue Feb 16, 2021 7:58 pmAnd all these years I thought 52100 and CPM M4 were tool steels.
When I think of "tool steel" I think of what much of the machining world calls "high speed steel". And certainly M4 qualifies.
52100 is sort of a refined carbon steel with a dab of Chromium, but I wouldn't call it a tool steel (i.e. a steel used to cut other steels). It certainly isn't stainless. It is used in bearings. One of my favorites for sure, whatever the case.
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Re: Mule #12 Cruwear
Yeah, I thought about that some more after I posted and I agree. But that still makes MT02 the first tool steel Mule.
Re: Mule #12 Cruwear
OK, Mr. Snarky! Your argument is with Spyderco, not me...
"Cru-Wear...is the first tool steel offering in Spyderco's Mule Team Series."
https://www.spyderco.com/catalog/detail ... ruwear/703
"Cru-Wear...is the first tool steel offering in Spyderco's Mule Team Series."
https://www.spyderco.com/catalog/detail ... ruwear/703
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Re: Mule #12 Cruwear
Yep. By the time MT12 rolled out, they had forgotten MT02. Kind of like they keep saying the first Police Model was hollow ground. I have five of them and they are all flat saber grind, not hollow.
Re: Mule #12 Cruwear
Mystery finally solved, two years later (or 12 years later, depending where you start), thanks to Josh Crutchley, who found this:
sal wrote: ↑Tue Sep 15, 2020 8:24 amSome interesting history to share;
Many decades ago, being a knife Junky with fewer choices than we have today, I purchased a Gerber folding hunter with a steel called "Vascowear". I really liked the steel, probably still have the knife around somewhere. I contacted Crucible and asked about it. They said they had the chemistry and had made the earlier steel. They said they could make it for me. They called it Cruwear.
I ordered enough to make a "Mule Team" run. When the steel came in, they informed me that they had powdered it for me. I was surprised and pleased to have CPM Cruwear. (I like powdered steels). The Mule Team was very popular so we began using it on production knives. The knife afi's like it so we're planning more in the future.
More recently, another foundry began making it and calling it Z-Wear. We'll be using it as well.
sal
Steel novice who self-identifies as a steel expert. Proud M.N.O.S.D. member 0003. Spydie Steels: 4V, 15V, 20CV, AEB-L, AUS6, Cru-Wear, HAP40, K294, K390, M4, Magnacut, S110V, S30V, S35VN, S45VN, SPY27, SRS13, T15, VG10, XHP, ZWear, ZDP189
Re: Mule #12 Cruwear
That's a great Mule! Z-Wear is my personal favorite non-stainless steel. Great balance of attributes and tremendous sharpening response. When I make myself a knife intentionally I choose Z-wear 80% of the time.
:spyder: Spyderco fan and collector since 1991. :spyder:
Father of 2, nature explorer, custom knife maker.
@ckc_knifemaker on Instagram.
Father of 2, nature explorer, custom knife maker.
@ckc_knifemaker on Instagram.
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Re: Mule #12 Cruwear
Problem is I've found conflicting info from Sal. Two posts saying Crucible powdered it by surprise and another about ingot. I tried asking Sal back when I found these posts but he never responded.Bolster wrote: ↑Thu Jan 19, 2023 1:07 pmMystery finally solved, two years later (or 12 years later, depending where you start), thanks to Josh Crutchley, who found this:
sal wrote: ↑Tue Sep 15, 2020 8:24 amSome interesting history to share;
Many decades ago, being a knife Junky with fewer choices than we have today, I purchased a Gerber folding hunter with a steel called "Vascowear". I really liked the steel, probably still have the knife around somewhere. I contacted Crucible and asked about it. They said they had the chemistry and had made the earlier steel. They said they could make it for me. They called it Cruwear.
I ordered enough to make a "Mule Team" run. When the steel came in, they informed me that they had powdered it for me. I was surprised and pleased to have CPM Cruwear. (I like powdered steels). The Mule Team was very popular so we began using it on production knives. The knife afi's like it so we're planning more in the future.
More recently, another foundry began making it and calling it Z-Wear. We'll be using it as well.
sal
sal wrote: ↑Sun Nov 27, 2011 11:49 amThanx for the support. Now maybe "youse guys" can help us pick some new Mule Teams?
The Cruware Mule is getting ready to be released again. CATRA tests were quite acceptable, especially for an ingot steel. The Elmax Mule teams are on the shelf for the next release. Then ???
Probably needs a new thread?
sal
Re: Mule #12 Cruwear
Wow, thanks Josh for your excellent research. So it's still a mystery! It's a Sal mystery--the most mysterious sorts of mysteries that ever mystified: "The Case of the Possibly Powdered MT#12."
Steel novice who self-identifies as a steel expert. Proud M.N.O.S.D. member 0003. Spydie Steels: 4V, 15V, 20CV, AEB-L, AUS6, Cru-Wear, HAP40, K294, K390, M4, Magnacut, S110V, S30V, S35VN, S45VN, SPY27, SRS13, T15, VG10, XHP, ZWear, ZDP189
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Re: Mule #12 Cruwear
And when you make me a knife
(It’s already made and enjoyed)
Im a vegetarian as technically cows are made of grass and water.
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Re: Mule #12 Cruwear
All this time I thought it was ingot Cruwear in the mule?
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Re: Mule #12 Cruwear
I suspect that after everything that went on with that Mule, it simply slipped Sal's mind at that moment that it was powder metal instead of the ingot steel he had expected when he ordered the steel.
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Re: Mule #12 Cruwear
If Sal doesn't remember the only way to know for sure is with a micrograph.yablanowitz wrote: ↑Fri Jan 20, 2023 9:25 amI suspect that after everything that went on with that Mule, it simply slipped Sal's mind at that moment that it was powder metal instead of the ingot steel he had expected when he ordered the steel.
Re: Mule #12 Cruwear
Josh Crutchley wrote: ↑Sun Jan 22, 2023 1:27 pmIf Sal doesn't remember the only way to know for sure is with a micrograph.yablanowitz wrote: ↑Fri Jan 20, 2023 9:25 amI suspect that after everything that went on with that Mule, it simply slipped Sal's mind at that moment that it was powder metal instead of the ingot steel he had expected when he ordered the steel.
I was going to suggest some repressed memory recovery techniques for Sal, but maybe a micrograph would work as well.
Steel novice who self-identifies as a steel expert. Proud M.N.O.S.D. member 0003. Spydie Steels: 4V, 15V, 20CV, AEB-L, AUS6, Cru-Wear, HAP40, K294, K390, M4, Magnacut, S110V, S30V, S35VN, S45VN, SPY27, SRS13, T15, VG10, XHP, ZWear, ZDP189
Re: Mule #12 Cruwear
Too bad, i would've brought the candle !
In the collection : Lots of different steels, in lots of different (and same) Spydercos.
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Robin. Finally made an IG : ramo_knives
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