The Elephant In The Reveal (besides the BBB Manix): The Lil Temperance LW Price

[Steeltoez83]

The specs look interesting. I feel like it will fulfill the ergonomics department better than other offerings at this size. Id prefer Magnacut over vg10 at this price. I may still pick one up if the stars align just right. Would be an ergonomic driven purchase. And a knife I put the mileage necessary to justify the purchase.

[sal]

I guess I don't know what will serve to answer the request?

The maker said that the time/labor in assembly and adjusting the model required a higher cost. The maker knows that if the price is too high, we disco the model. The G-10 version with the S30 blade was a blank. We lowered the margin too much to try to compensate, but sales still weren't there and the model was disco'd. I felt the model would be worth the effort, even though not a big seller, to try to get the model to the market at a lower cost by using FRN. If it turns out that the sales aren't there for the FRN model, then it too will be disco'd.

The Lil' Temperance was never a high volume model, but it filled a niche, and it was a pet project of mine.

sal

[apollo]

I guess I don't know what will serve to answer the request?

The maker said that the time/labor in assembly and adjusting the model required a higher cost. The maker knows that if the price is too high, we disco the model. The G-10 version with the S30 blade was a blank. We lowered the margin too much to try to compensate, but sales still weren't there and the model was disco'd. I felt the model would be worth the effort, even though not a big seller, to try to get the model to the market at a lower cost by using FRN. If it turns out that the sales aren't there for the FRN model, then it too will be disco'd.

The Lil' Temperance was never a high volume model, but it filled a niche, and it was a pet project of mine.

sal

Sal i hope it will be around long enough because i will need the time to save for it probably ( Unless i win euromillions then i would probably stand on spyderco’s factory doorstep in e few weeks… )
but realistically since you and Eric are also giving us that incredible Manix 2 sprint i need to get that first. ( Or i hope to be able to get that first anyway )
But i adore my original ones to hard to not at the least try and get it this time. I find the lil temperance my favorite of you’re designs . Close second is the polestar.

But i have a quick question If a model releases how much time is there generally between releases in the US and the rest of the world? Or is this pure randomness from country to country? I ask this Since the Ayoob sprint has bin out for about 2 weeks here while it has bin out much earlier in the US and i have noticed this on others as wel. So if there is a kind of schedule it would interesting to know.

[sal]

Hi Apollo,

When it goes outside of the US depends on the distributors and dealers in each country to order them. Spyderco does not have an outlet in the EU other than our distribution.

sal

[Michal O]

This model is "cursed" by not making it in Taichung with better quality/price ratio. It's great design but cost is deal killer for many people, and it's so high imho only because country of production. I hesitated very long time to buy it and when I did, I was at first dissapointed with finish and action. Almost returned it to dealer. But I kept it anyway. I have plan to make new stop pin for this knife. Action isn't that bad but when you get used to PM2/Para 3 action, it's hard to go back. I'm afraid it's going to be niche knife like LT3 G10.

[huyfishin]

Many of you have to understand all these knives are still considered works of art. So value is still subjective to the maker based on howmuch time and howmuch effort they spend in each knife. If Sal decides that price is fair then its your job to determine if it fits your lifestyle and if its worth the value for YOU. If its not within your budget or if its not your steel you hoped for then we need to move on. Sal doesn't need to explain anything.

let the market determine if the knife will stay in production or discontinue.

[wrdwrght]

Many of you have to understand all these knives are still considered works of art. So value is still subjective to the maker based on howmuch time and howmuch effort they spend in each knife. If Sal decides that price is fair then its your job to determine if it fits your lifestyle and if its worth the value for YOU. If its not within your budget or if its not your steel you hoped for then we need to move on. Sal doesn't need to explain anything.

let the market determine if the knife will stay in production or discontinue.

Precisely this.

Given some comments in this thread, I would add that there is a vast difference between being in a cult of apologists and being an admirer of someone’s art.

[Nuh Nups]

say what you want, but the "we have a long history with the maker" explanation is getting old. "your serrations on your $200 knife are jacked up...? huh... i guess you could just return it and miss out on the model. we like the maker more than the customer." "the knife is more expensive because they said it's hard and we trust them. just don't buy it." these don't sound like the responses of someone that is worried about the customer. i know that's not generally true of sal or spyderco, which is why it is getting so frustrating, as is the cult-like response of forum members when these excuses are given. when we got the response about the ayoob, many of you fell over yourself calling spyderco noble for caring more about a struggling business in japan than the customers that received sub-par products. it's getting old.

i like this forum. i like spyderco. i like spyderco knives. i'm getting tired of these types of responses though. and i'd hardly call this thread a dumpster fire just because people have opinions.

I find your negativity to be completely out of line. YOU, Ladybug, are the main reason I don’t visit this forum much anymore. I come here because it is usually a very happy, friendly corner of the internet where I can enjoy reading posts from other people who enjoy some of the same interests I have. That has changed lately. I understand this is a “discussion” forum and with that, I don’t expect all of us to always agree. There is also constructive criticism that goes on here from time to time. That definitely has a place too. However, calling some of the responses from members, “cult-like” simply because they have defended something you didn’t agree with? Give me a break.

Lately, all you do is complain. Think about it. Going all the way back to several threads about exclusives in M4 steel, (particularly Blade HQ releases) you seem to feel the need to remind everyone here that you don’t like a steel that is susceptible to corrosion. Well, plenty of us here like M4 steel. Maybe if a steel or knife doesn’t appeal to you, you could just not post anything? If you’ll notice, I don’t post a comment every single time a Para 3 is released. Why? The knife is too small for me and it isn’t one of my favorites. Do I post that whenever a thread is started about the newest Para 3 exclusive? No. I don’t feel the need to rain on anyone else’s parade, especially if they are excited about the knife.

I try to avoid conflict here but this last post of yours pushed me too far. I think it’s incredibly insulting that you use quotation marks when paraphrasing something Sal said, then include several things in the quotation marks that he NEVER said. Please, show me exactly where Sal said, “The maker is more important than the customer.” You can’t, can you? That’s because Sal wouldn’t (and didn’t) say that.

I don’t know if you have something going on outside of the forum and you are choosing to bring it here but it is getting very tiresome. It’s too bad. There was a time that you contributed useful information and I’ve always enjoyed the pictures you have shared. You have changed, Ladybug.

[JRinFL]

I don't want to see LB chased off, so let's just knock that off right now. If you have beef with him then take to PMs, otherwise you are part of the problem.

Edited to add:

Everyone, if you don't like someone's post you can easily block them using the terribly named Friends & Foes settings.

[Michal O]

I just wonder why LT3 doesn't have pivot like PM2. It's not black magic. To be honest, for that price it should have same action and finish like PM2 or Shaman to have any chances for wider audience.
When I show my LT3 to knife people, they like it but lost interest after hearing price and information that's not drop shut like PM2.

[Araignee]

Sal, thanks for the additional explanations. I think Michal's made interesting points - perhap's it'd be worth asking the Taichung factory if they could produce this knife for cheaper and with a different fit/finish.

[sal]

Hi Araignee,

1) We generally don't move models from one maker to another unless there is no choice.

2) The Taichung maker is at capacity and couldn't begin to deliver a new model for several years. Keeping up with the models they are already making is challenging enough.

3) This maker has been working with me on developing this mode for more than a decade. I think they've earned the right to keep making the model.

4) The cost differences between our makers outside of China is usually close. You won't see a big difference in similar models. If we need to cut the cost by a larger number, we almost always have to go to China, which I prefer not to do.

5) Some of our models are just more expensive than others. We try to keep the cost as low as we can without affecting quality. The G-10 version was a loser in terms of business. As I mentioned, we adjusted the margins to try to keep it more reasonable, but that didn't work out.

In some cases, a model will be more expensive than some would like to, or can afford to pay. There isn't much we can do about it, other than 1) Lowering quality, which we'd rather not do. 2) Beat up our long term vendors, which we would also prefer not to do 3) Lowering margins, which we usually end up on the short end.

sal

[RamZar]

Taichung would’ve been nice with their usual stellar quality but I believe it’s a question of production capacity, what’s in the pipeline and I think Spyderco likes to keep new models of old knives within the same factory.

Sage 5 with S30V, FRN, Compression Lock and Stainless Steel liners for $141.05 is a real nice one.

[ChrisinHove]

The Lil Temp. is a fantastic knife, it just didn’t fit me. I just wish my hands would shrink a little, but there are other Spyderco knives that do fit, very well indeed.

[nerdlock]

I think LB is one of the more valued members of this forum and I don't find his posts any more negative than many others here. Use the FvF function if it becomes an issue for you. Let's all just agree to disagree so that something good might come out of this "elephant" for all Spyderco fans worldwide.

[R100]

Just for a little perspective - the incredibly popular plain Jane Bugout sells for $144. I can easily see a Li'l Temperance 3 costing more than twice as much to make.

Dan

[Superflex]

The price for this knife is stupid and greedy, plain and simple.
Sal can defend his pricing all he wants, and the enablers of Sal who take his word as gospel can also defend the knife. You are entitled to your opinion, just as the dissenters are.
Spyderco used to be a good company of value folders. I bought my first one in 1994. Since then, quality is down, value is down and if you dont like it, you get modded or piled on by the jock sniffers for speaking the truth.
If I hear "how does it cut" one more time when the issue isn't how the knife cuts but how the knife got out the door with such lousy QA/QC, I'm gonna scream.
Your dont like our lousy attempt at Ayoob serrations, tough.
You dont like un-symmetrical apex's, tough.
You dont like the unfinished grind marks in your M4 Micarta Shaman, tough.
You dont like knives being shipped with loose or stripped out screws in the pocket clip, tough.
You dont like the fact we showed a titanium pocket clip on the reveal, but we shipped your $320 titanium knife with a stainless clip, tough.

[BornIn1500]

I think people's frustration all comes down to the same question of "what was the point"? We seem to be back at square one, seeing a product that isn't competitive with similar offerings. I think it's destined to sit on shelves like the g10 version.

[VooDooChild]

JUST DON'T BUY IT!

Seriously, end of discussion. Vote with your wallet.

Spyderco isnt publically traded, none of us own stock in it, none of us are business partners with them, and unless your one of the 30 something people who have an exclusive/collab, none of us make or lose money based off of this Private companies business decisions.

If spyderco prices themselves out of the market, its on them. I wont get this knife. However, I still feel that $80 for an endura is fair. Yes, I would like it to be cheaper, but thats true of everything at this point.

[RamZar]

I still feel that $80 for an endura is fair. Yes, I would like it to be cheaper, but thats true of everything at this point.

Endura4 VG-10 FRN is now $95.55.