CPM 15v Manix 2

[Eli Chaps]

You just got me even more excited with your "king of the k390/10v range" summary, thank you! Maxamet never won me over like K390 did from M4, so I'm curious as to how this will feel in comparison. If it behaves more like K390 but cuts as long as Maxamet I'll likely be asking for more 15v!
<snip>

No doubt that since apparently it's his collab project, calling it "king of ..." is just more of the same marketing/sales pitch type stuff we saw regarding Magnacut. Of course the product you're putting out is the best thing ever, if you don't say that you're not doing your job as a business person.

All these steels are making various trade-offs, so I'm not really on board with calling 15v a killer/king of anything. Some attributes are being sacrificed for other attributes, a reality which is always going to be present. Currently I'm not excited about taking a step back in toughness from K390/10v, but others may be totally fine making that trade-off, it all depends on each person's particular needs.

You just walked into a movie in the last 15 mins and made a lot of assumptions about the first two hours you missed.

This collab exists BECAUSE Shawn (a MAJOR innovator and educator in the knife steel world) has believed in this steel and been advocating for this steel for YEARS. And he’s been doing that because as a custom knife maker and steel junkie he saw potential in it, it’s not like someone forced him to start using it. His collaboration with Spyderco has been years in the making, and he was talking very publicly about 15v for years before that.

It’s really hard for me to imagine the arrogance that makes someone so willing to be this disrespectful and dismissive to someone who has contributed so much to the community, without bothering to educate yourself about the topic at all before opening your mouth.

I’m not saying Shawn’s infallible or beyond criticism - nobody is - but this criticism was ignorant and disrespectful af. Unreal.

Yes. All yes.

[Ramonade]

And here I was, already salivating ! I don't have a word for my state after this video

[WilliamMunny]

Did I repeat test on the factory edge.
Especially since I know for some people the factory I just very important for them.

In the test I'm cutting into hard african blackwood with a side load and scraping cuts, this is clear misuse of a knife edge and not what it's intended for. The 15V it's not the toughest steel but it does have enough strength to hold up to some misuse within reason.

The end user will get the best edge performance from sharpening their own knife and customizing the edge angle to meet their needs and preferences.

That's why sharpening is so important, steels like these are not intended to be a solution for not needing to sharpen but a way to prolong the sharpening work you put into it by going longer between sharpenings and giving the ability to sharpen when you want to not because you have to.

For some peoples preferences they will get the best performance with a thicker edge, others will enjoy a thinner edge with more judicious use.

All I was thinking was that I hoped you had a backup in case you broke the edge while scraping.

Like many here this knife is not for my use case, I can sharpen daily if I need to nor do I have prolonged cutting sessions, but this knife and work that went into it is amazing.

[Deadboxhero]

Did I repeat test on the factory edge.
Especially since I know for some people the factory I just very important for them.

In the test I'm cutting into hard african blackwood with a side load and scraping cuts, this is clear misuse of a knife edge and not what it's intended for. The 15V it's not the toughest steel but it does have enough strength to hold up to some misuse within reason.

The end user will get the best edge performance from sharpening their own knife and customizing the edge angle to meet their needs and preferences.

That's why sharpening is so important, steels like these are not intended to be a solution for not needing to sharpen but a way to prolong the sharpening work you put into it by going longer between sharpenings and giving the ability to sharpen when you want to not because you have to.

For some peoples preferences they will get the best performance with a thicker edge, others will enjoy a thinner edge with more judicious use.

All I was thinking was that I hoped you had a backup in case you broke the edge while scraping.

Like many here this knife is not for my use case, I can sharpen daily if I need to nor do I have prolonged cutting sessions, but this knife and work that went into it is amazing.

Factory edges don't normally hold up to this kind of abuse so it's nice to see how the factory edge would hold up given the majority of folks will probably just only use the factory edge which is very unfortunate because to unlock the maximum performance for any steel you would want to put a custom edge on it.

Of course this doesn't mean it's invincible we can push it further until It breaks.

[Enactive]

Did I repeat test on the factory edge.
Especially since I know for some people the factory I just very important for them.

In the test I'm cutting into hard african blackwood with a side load and scraping cuts, this is clear misuse of a knife edge and not what it's intended for. The 15V it's not the toughest steel but it does have enough strength to hold up to some misuse within reason.

The end user will get the best edge performance from sharpening their own knife and customizing the edge angle to meet their needs and preferences.

That's why sharpening is so important, steels like these are not intended to be a solution for not needing to sharpen but a way to prolong the sharpening work you put into it by going longer between sharpenings and giving the ability to sharpen when you want to not because you have to.

For some peoples preferences they will get the best performance with a thicker edge, others will enjoy a thinner edge with more judicious use.

Sweet!

Didn't make me wince as much as your REX45 brass rod carving video, nor the K390 Po-po being stabbed into CMU block... but still good abuse testing.

Yeah I didn't test those on the factory edges, those had a nice freehand edges which will have some convexity, it looks like the factory will have a slight hollow which should make them easy to touch up with a sharpmaker compared to a convex which would have more material to cut threw.

Yeah. Thanks for pointing out that distinction.

I wasn't meaning to compare that factory and your own edges. I was just reminded of those older videos of yours and my own reaction to harsh edge testing when i saw the 15v edge testing.

As always thanks for sharing all that you do.

[WilliamMunny]

Did I repeat test on the factory edge.
Especially since I know for some people the factory I just very important for them.

In the test I'm cutting into hard african blackwood with a side load and scraping cuts, this is clear misuse of a knife edge and not what it's intended for. The 15V it's not the toughest steel but it does have enough strength to hold up to some misuse within reason.

The end user will get the best edge performance from sharpening their own knife and customizing the edge angle to meet their needs and preferences.

That's why sharpening is so important, steels like these are not intended to be a solution for not needing to sharpen but a way to prolong the sharpening work you put into it by going longer between sharpenings and giving the ability to sharpen when you want to not because you have to.

For some peoples preferences they will get the best performance with a thicker edge, others will enjoy a thinner edge with more judicious use.

All I was thinking was that I hoped you had a backup in case you broke the edge while scraping.

Like many here this knife is not for my use case, I can sharpen daily if I need to nor do I have prolonged cutting sessions, but this knife and work that went into it is amazing.

Factory edges don't normally hold up to this kind of abuse so it's nice to see how the factory edge would hold up given the majority of folks will probably just only use the factory edge which is very unfortunate because to unlock the maximum performance for any steel you would want to put a custom edge on it.

Of course this doesn't mean it's invincible we can push it further until It breaks.

Plus correct me if I am wrong but I did hear that many steels need to be sharpened once or twice to get to the "good steel" as the factory sharpening can generate a lot of heat.

What edge (dps) would you recommend putting on this steel? I know many go for a 15dps here on the forum, that is how I will sharpen my Cruwear, but I would think with a knife like this, lower on toughness, a 17dps grind to thin the edge out with a 20dps micro bevel to help with chipping. At least that is were I would start.

[Deadboxhero]

Did I repeat test on the factory edge.
Especially since I know for some people the factory I just very important for them.

In the test I'm cutting into hard african blackwood with a side load and scraping cuts, this is clear misuse of a knife edge and not what it's intended for. The 15V it's not the toughest steel but it does have enough strength to hold up to some misuse within reason.

The end user will get the best edge performance from sharpening their own knife and customizing the edge angle to meet their needs and preferences.

That's why sharpening is so important, steels like these are not intended to be a solution for not needing to sharpen but a way to prolong the sharpening work you put into it by going longer between sharpenings and giving the ability to sharpen when you want to not because you have to.

For some peoples preferences they will get the best performance with a thicker edge, others will enjoy a thinner edge with more judicious use.

All I was thinking was that I hoped you had a backup in case you broke the edge while scraping.

Like many here this knife is not for my use case, I can sharpen daily if I need to nor do I have prolonged cutting sessions, but this knife and work that went into it is amazing.

Factory edges don't normally hold up to this kind of abuse so it's nice to see how the factory edge would hold up given the majority of folks will probably just only use the factory edge which is very unfortunate because to unlock the maximum performance for any steel you would want to put a custom edge on it.

Of course this doesn't mean it's invincible we can push it further until It breaks.

Plus correct me if I am wrong but I did hear that many steels need to be sharpened once or twice to get to the "good steel" as the factory sharpening can generate a lot of heat.

What edge (dps) would you recommend putting on this steel? I know many go for a 15dps here on the forum, that is how I will sharpen my Cruwear, but I would think with a knife like this, lower on toughness, a 17dps grind to thin the edge out with a 20dps micro bevel to help with chipping. At least that is were I would start.

Yeah that can be the case sometimes, it's not entirely clear what the cause is since when I talked to Sal he said that they use coolant when they sharpen. That is something interesting that will be further explored in the next year or so.

The best angle is different depending on what device or method you are using.

A 15° per side freehand is not the same as a 15° per side Edge Pro or Tormek.

Freehand will create different levels of convexity
A fixed angle system will create a flatter more triangular geometry. A tormek will create a hollow bevel.

So there's different trade-offs with these especially in durability, cutting edge retention and resharpenability.

If you're using freehand you'll want to hold around 15° per side because near the apex you will get some convexity that's closer to 17° to 20° depending on your idiosyncrasies. This is why you cannot directly compare freehand edges to people that are using fixed angle systems. Those angles are not working the same.

If you are using a fixed angle system and you are a rough user and not concerned with what the edge makes contact with in your day to day use you'll want to keep the edge above 20dps. 15dps on a fixed angle system will require more judicious use but the rewards are obvious.

On the tormek it is obviously going to be the most delicate because there is less material supporting the actual radius of the apex but there can other curiosities that make it appealing despite the trade-offs.

So what angle for 15V?


Well, we can see why it's difficult to say what specific angle will work best for a given steel because that angle is expressed differently depending on what was used to make it and largely because people have different uses and preferences that require different angles so it's a very personal answer.

The best recommendation from the sharpening community is that you try any given angle, if the knife is not cutting very good then you lower the angle to something thinner. If the knife is getting damaged too easy in your use then you increase the angle to something thicker. After that you will know what angle works best for YOU.

[WilliamMunny]

Yeah that can be the case sometimes, it's not entirely clear what the cause is since when I talked to Sal he said that they use coolant when they sharpen. That is something interesting that will be further explored in the next year or so.

The best angle is different depending on what device or method you are using.

A 15° per side freehand is not the same as a 15° per side Edge Pro or Tormek.

Freehand will create different levels of convexity
A fixed angle system will create a flatter more triangular geometry. A tormek will create a hollow bevel.

So there's different trade-offs with these especially in durability, cutting edge retention and resharpenability.

If you're using freehand you'll want to hold around 15° per side because near the apex you will get some convexity that's closer to 17° to 20° depending on your idiosyncrasies. This is why you cannot directly compare freehand edges to people that are using fixed angle systems. Those angles are not working the same.

If you are using a fixed angle system and you are a rough user and not concerned with what the edge makes contact with in your day to day use you'll want to keep the edge above 20dps. 15dps on a fixed angle system will require more judicious use but the rewards are obvious.

On the tormek it is obviously going to be the most delicate because there is less material supporting the actual radius of the apex but there can other curiosities that make it appealing despite the trade-offs.

So what angle for 15V?


Well, we can see why it's difficult to say what specific angle will work best for a given steel because that angle is expressed differently depending on what was used to make it and largely because people have different uses and preferences that require different angles so it's a very personal answer.

The best recommendation from the sharpening community is that you try any given angle, if the knife is not cutting very good then you lower the angle to something thinner. If the knife is getting damaged too easy in your use then you increase the angle to something thicker. After that you will know what angle works best for YOU.

Great information as always and it makes a ton of sense. Right now I free hand with a Worksharp system and touch up the edge on Sharpmaker. I was thinking of getting a guided system but since I generally prefer a slightly tougher edge maybe I should stick to free hand even though I tend to round out the tip accidently. I included a picture of my last sharpen, S30V at 17dbs by hand stopping at course with a 20dbs micro bevel on the Sharpmaker.

For anyone wondering it was taking with a iPhone and a small loop, works pretty well.

[Deadboxhero]

Yeah that can be the case sometimes, it's not entirely clear what the cause is since when I talked to Sal he said that they use coolant when they sharpen. That is something interesting that will be further explored in the next year or so.

The best angle is different depending on what device or method you are using.

A 15° per side freehand is not the same as a 15° per side Edge Pro or Tormek.

Freehand will create different levels of convexity
A fixed angle system will create a flatter more triangular geometry. A tormek will create a hollow bevel.

So there's different trade-offs with these especially in durability, cutting edge retention and resharpenability.

If you're using freehand you'll want to hold around 15° per side because near the apex you will get some convexity that's closer to 17° to 20° depending on your idiosyncrasies. This is why you cannot directly compare freehand edges to people that are using fixed angle systems. Those angles are not working the same.

If you are using a fixed angle system and you are a rough user and not concerned with what the edge makes contact with in your day to day use you'll want to keep the edge above 20dps. 15dps on a fixed angle system will require more judicious use but the rewards are obvious.

On the tormek it is obviously going to be the most delicate because there is less material supporting the actual radius of the apex but there can other curiosities that make it appealing despite the trade-offs.

So what angle for 15V?


Well, we can see why it's difficult to say what specific angle will work best for a given steel because that angle is expressed differently depending on what was used to make it and largely because people have different uses and preferences that require different angles so it's a very personal answer.

The best recommendation from the sharpening community is that you try any given angle, if the knife is not cutting very good then you lower the angle to something thinner. If the knife is getting damaged too easy in your use then you increase the angle to something thicker. After that you will know what angle works best for YOU.

Great information as always and it makes a ton of sense. Right now I free hand with a Worksharp system and touch up the edge on Sharpmaker. I was thinking of getting a guided system but since I generally prefer a slightly tougher edge maybe I should stick to free hand even though I tend to round out the tip accidently. I included a picture of my last sharpen, S30V at 17dbs by hand stopping at course with a 20dbs micro bevel on the Sharpmaker.

For anyone wondering it was taking with a iPhone and a small loop, works pretty well.

35ECD2E8-56BE-4688-92DF-58596499507F.jpeg

Ah, using magnification. That's always a good idea I remember I used to be more resistant to using magnification to look at my edges because I like the idea of being able to feel them without needing to look at them which I felt could develop as a crutch but I noticed that Sal would always look at all the edges and he was a very big proponent of that. Well Sal has been sharpening for longer than I've been alive so I figured it was worth looking into more.

I think the best part about it is that we could show pictures of what we were talking about with each other and better understand.


What Work Sharp system? The belt grinder?

[WilliamMunny]

Ah, using magnification. That's always a good idea I remember I used to be more resistant to using magnification to look at my edges because I like the idea of being able to feel them without needing to look at them which I felt could develop as a crutch but I noticed that Sal would always look at all the edges and he was a very big proponent of that. Well Sal has been sharpening for longer than I've been alive so I figured it was worth looking into more.

I think the best part about it is that we could show pictures of what we were talking about with each other and better understand.


What Work Sharp system? The belt grinder?

I use the Worksharp guided sharpening system. The ramps help keep the angle pretty consistent. I also bought the extra plates, extra corse and extra fine. The extra corse stone eats up steel, its 220 diamond it think, and I need to be careful with it. I am pretty sure it would work well even on something like 15V.

[Deadboxhero]

Ah, using magnification. That's always a good idea I remember I used to be more resistant to using magnification to look at my edges because I like the idea of being able to feel them without needing to look at them which I felt could develop as a crutch but I noticed that Sal would always look at all the edges and he was a very big proponent of that. Well Sal has been sharpening for longer than I've been alive so I figured it was worth looking into more.

I think the best part about it is that we could show pictures of what we were talking about with each other and better understand.


What Work Sharp system? The belt grinder?

I use the Worksharp guided sharpening system. The ramps help keep the angle pretty consistent. I also bought the extra plates, extra corse and extra fine. The extra corse stone eats up steel, its 220 diamond it think, and I need to be careful with it. I am pretty sure it would work well even on something like 15V.

C9BA9F06-C95B-43E1-B7A5-FB65C66AD8AD.jpeg

Yeah, that will work, I'll give some other options as well if I may.

There are bonded diamond and cBN stones that are not electroplated to a surface, they are like a traditional sharpening stone with abrasive throughout the thickness of the "stone" except they are using super abrasive with exotic bonding types to take advantage of the longer-lasting, more expensive abrasive grains.

This does three things, it increases the longevity of the "stone" over a electroplated diamond stone and it also reduces the surface roughness since the abrasive is not so exposed and digging deeper into the steel lastly the abrasive is also better supported and not as prone to breaking and sheering off in use.

Here is a really important detail that nobody to discusses often enough.

The advantage of not having deeper scratches is you will have less stress risers for the given grit meaning you will notice higher stability of the edge.

A 400 grit atoma diamond and a 400grit metallic bonded Poltava will leave completely different surface roughnesses, the deeper scratches from the atoma will make the edge less stable and more prone to damage then the smoother scratches from the bonded stone at the same size grit

The bonded stones do cost more but they last longer and the performance of the end result is better.

Lastly, for finishing edges I recommend diamond or cBN compounds these will help finish the edge nicely without over polishing like some of the softer compounds can do.

[WilliamMunny]

Ah, using magnification. That's always a good idea I remember I used to be more resistant to using magnification to look at my edges because I like the idea of being able to feel them without needing to look at them which I felt could develop as a crutch but I noticed that Sal would always look at all the edges and he was a very big proponent of that. Well Sal has been sharpening for longer than I've been alive so I figured it was worth looking into more.

I think the best part about it is that we could show pictures of what we were talking about with each other and better understand.


What Work Sharp system? The belt grinder?

I use the Worksharp guided sharpening system. The ramps help keep the angle pretty consistent. I also bought the extra plates, extra corse and extra fine. The extra corse stone eats up steel, its 220 diamond it think, and I need to be careful with it. I am pretty sure it would work well even on something like 15V.

C9BA9F06-C95B-43E1-B7A5-FB65C66AD8AD.jpeg

Yeah, that will work, I'll give some other options as well if I may.

There are bonded diamond and cBN stones that are not electroplated to a surface, they are like a traditional sharpening stone with abrasive throughout the thickness of the "stone" except they are using super abrasive with exotic bonding types to take advantage of the longer-lasting, more expensive abrasive grains.

This does three things, it increases the longevity of the "stone" over a electroplated diamond stone and it also reduces the surface roughness since the abrasive is not so exposed and digging deeper into the steel lastly the abrasive is also better supported and not as prone to breaking and sheering off in use.

Here is a really important detail that nobody to discusses often enough.

The advantage of not having deeper scratches is you will have less stress risers for the given grit meaning you will notice higher stability of the edge.

A 400 grit atoma diamond and a 400grit metallic bonded Poltava will leave completely different surface roughnesses, the deeper scratches from the atoma will make the edge less stable and more prone to damage then the smoother scratches from the bonded stone at the same size grit

The bonded stones do cost more but they last longer and the performance of the end result is better.

Lastly, for finishing edges I recommend diamond or cBN compounds these will help finish the edge nicely without over polishing like some of the softer compounds can do.

As always thanks for the information. I do some wood working/furniture building so some of the things I learn from sanding carry over.

Are there any brands of bonded stones I should be looking at? I am guessing having one or two good stones to keep a profile and the Sharpmaker with CBN rods to finish the edge?

[Deadboxhero]

Ah, using magnification. That's always a good idea I remember I used to be more resistant to using magnification to look at my edges because I like the idea of being able to feel them without needing to look at them which I felt could develop as a crutch but I noticed that Sal would always look at all the edges and he was a very big proponent of that. Well Sal has been sharpening for longer than I've been alive so I figured it was worth looking into more.

I think the best part about it is that we could show pictures of what we were talking about with each other and better understand.


What Work Sharp system? The belt grinder?

I use the Worksharp guided sharpening system. The ramps help keep the angle pretty consistent. I also bought the extra plates, extra corse and extra fine. The extra corse stone eats up steel, its 220 diamond it think, and I need to be careful with it. I am pretty sure it would work well even on something like 15V.

C9BA9F06-C95B-43E1-B7A5-FB65C66AD8AD.jpeg

Yeah, that will work, I'll give some other options as well if I may.

There are bonded diamond and cBN stones that are not electroplated to a surface, they are like a traditional sharpening stone with abrasive throughout the thickness of the "stone" except they are using super abrasive with exotic bonding types to take advantage of the longer-lasting, more expensive abrasive grains.

This does three things, it increases the longevity of the "stone" over a electroplated diamond stone and it also reduces the surface roughness since the abrasive is not so exposed and digging deeper into the steel lastly the abrasive is also better supported and not as prone to breaking and sheering off in use.

Here is a really important detail that nobody to discusses often enough.

The advantage of not having deeper scratches is you will have less stress risers for the given grit meaning you will notice higher stability of the edge.

A 400 grit atoma diamond and a 400grit metallic bonded Poltava will leave completely different surface roughnesses, the deeper scratches from the atoma will make the edge less stable and more prone to damage then the smoother scratches from the bonded stone at the same size grit

The bonded stones do cost more but they last longer and the performance of the end result is better.

Lastly, for finishing edges I recommend diamond or cBN compounds these will help finish the edge nicely without over polishing like some of the softer compounds can do.

As always thanks for the information. I do some wood working/furniture building so some of the things I learn from sanding carry over.

Are there any brands of bonded stones I should be looking at? I am guessing having one or two good stones to keep a profile and the Sharpmaker with CBN rods to finish the edge?

Columbia Gorge Works
Naniwa
Nanohone
Practical Sharpening
Poltava
Venev
To name a few.

[salimoneus]

This collab exists BECAUSE Shawn (a MAJOR innovator and educator in the knife steel world) has believed in this steel and been advocating for this steel for YEARS. And he’s been doing that because as a custom knife maker and steel junkie he saw potential in it, it’s not like someone forced him to start using it. His collaboration with Spyderco has been years in the making, and he was talking very publicly about 15v for years before that.

It’s really hard for me to imagine the arrogance that makes someone so willing to be this disrespectful and dismissive to someone who has contributed so much to the community, without bothering to educate yourself about the topic at all before opening your mouth.

I’m not saying Shawn’s infallible or beyond criticism - nobody is - but this criticism was ignorant and disrespectful af. Unreal.

People have been talking publicly for years about many many steels they believe in, most of whom don't believe any of those particular steels are the "killer" or "king" or anything. You can choose to believe everything this person says is as good as gospel, but I take a more practical and logical approach.

That approach and reality being every single steel on the planet invented so far is a compromise in attributes. If you believe that 15v is the King of the universe, as apparently we are supposed to believe, then by all means spend every last dollar you have investing in knives with that blade steel.

It's an indisputable fact that 15v sacrifices toughness for a gain in other attributes. And again, I personally am not willing to sacrifice toughness for an increase in any other attributes, as compared to it's superior sisters 10v or K390.

I also can't blame someone financially invested in this venture, to make whatever claims they deem necessary to create the hype and demand, which we see with every new blade steel. It's not unlike the very same tactics used for Magnacut, which we saw being claimed as a M390 killer and so on and so forth, but as we have now discovered Magnacut has some major issues in a mass production folder. So don't take as fact everything the inventor/those financially invested have to say, is the main point and probably very sound advice.

[WilliamMunny]

This collab exists BECAUSE Shawn (a MAJOR innovator and educator in the knife steel world) has believed in this steel and been advocating for this steel for YEARS. And he’s been doing that because as a custom knife maker and steel junkie he saw potential in it, it’s not like someone forced him to start using it. His collaboration with Spyderco has been years in the making, and he was talking very publicly about 15v for years before that.

It’s really hard for me to imagine the arrogance that makes someone so willing to be this disrespectful and dismissive to someone who has contributed so much to the community, without bothering to educate yourself about the topic at all before opening your mouth.

I’m not saying Shawn’s infallible or beyond criticism - nobody is - but this criticism was ignorant and disrespectful af. Unreal.

People have been talking publicly for years about many many steels they believe in, most of whom don't believe any of those particular steels are the "killer" or "king" or anything. You can choose to believe everything this person says is as good as gospel, but I take a more practical and logical approach.

That approach and reality being every single steel on the planet invented so far is a compromise in attributes. If you believe that 15v is the King of the universe, as apparently we are supposed to believe, then by all means spend every last dollar you have investing in knives with that blade steel.

It's an indisputable fact that 15v sacrifices toughness for a gain in other attributes. And again, I personally am not willing to sacrifice toughness for an increase in any other attributes, as compared to it's superior sisters 10v or K390.

I also can't blame someone financially invested in this venture, to make whatever claims they deem necessary to create the hype and demand, which we see with every new blade steel. It's not unlike the very same tactics used for Magnacut, which we saw being claimed as a M390 killer and so on and so forth, but as we have now discovered Magnacut has some major issues in a mass production folder. So don't take as fact everything the inventor/those financially invested have to say, is the main point and probably very sound advice.

It’s a steel made for a smaller audience. No one ever claimed 15v to be the best or king steel. It is for an experienced knife own who needs extreme edge retention while being a bit tougher than Maxamet or Rex 121. 15v is about as tough as most main stream steels like M390/S30V which most users do not have an issue with. If you need more toughness for your use case than 10v or M4 could be good options but you will lose edge retention.

If you have time read this while tread, no one claimed 15v to be the best steel in the world. But it is a great steel for someone looking at Maxamet but wanting added toughness.

If you find unfounded claims about 15v let’s discuss it.

[Deadboxhero]

This collab exists BECAUSE Shawn (a MAJOR innovator and educator in the knife steel world) has believed in this steel and been advocating for this steel for YEARS. And he’s been doing that because as a custom knife maker and steel junkie he saw potential in it, it’s not like someone forced him to start using it. His collaboration with Spyderco has been years in the making, and he was talking very publicly about 15v for years before that.

It’s really hard for me to imagine the arrogance that makes someone so willing to be this disrespectful and dismissive to someone who has contributed so much to the community, without bothering to educate yourself about the topic at all before opening your mouth.

I’m not saying Shawn’s infallible or beyond criticism - nobody is - but this criticism was ignorant and disrespectful af. Unreal.

People have been talking publicly for years about many many steels they believe in, most of whom don't believe any of those particular steels are the "killer" or "king" or anything. You can choose to believe everything this person says is as good as gospel, but I take a more practical and logical approach.

That approach and reality being every single steel on the planet invented so far is a compromise in attributes. If you believe that 15v is the King of the universe, as apparently we are supposed to believe, then by all means spend every last dollar you have investing in knives with that blade steel.

It's an indisputable fact that 15v sacrifices toughness for a gain in other attributes. And again, I personally am not willing to sacrifice toughness for an increase in any other attributes, as compared to it's superior sisters 10v or K390.

I also can't blame someone financially invested in this venture, to make whatever claims they deem necessary to create the hype and demand, which we see with every new blade steel. It's not unlike the very same tactics used for Magnacut, which we saw being claimed as a M390 killer and so on and so forth, but as we have now discovered Magnacut has some major issues in a mass production folder. So don't take as fact everything the inventor/those financially invested have to say, is the main point and probably very sound advice.

It’s a steel made for a smaller audience. No one ever claimed 15v to be the best or king steel. It is for an experienced knife own who needs extreme edge retention while being a bit tougher than Maxamet or Rex 121. 15v is about as tough as most main stream steels like M390/S30V which most users do not have an issue with. If you need more toughness for your use case than 10v or M4 could be good options but you will lose edge retention.

If you have time read this while tread, no one claimed 15v to be the best steel in the world. But it is a great steel for someone looking at Maxamet but wanting added toughness.

If you find unfounded claims about 15v let’s discuss it.

Don't waste your time, he's a troll. He feeds off the attention from barking loudly with no bite. This is internet shenanigans 101.

[Cl1ff]

This collab exists BECAUSE Shawn (a MAJOR innovator and educator in the knife steel world) has believed in this steel and been advocating for this steel for YEARS. And he’s been doing that because as a custom knife maker and steel junkie he saw potential in it, it’s not like someone forced him to start using it. His collaboration with Spyderco has been years in the making, and he was talking very publicly about 15v for years before that.

It’s really hard for me to imagine the arrogance that makes someone so willing to be this disrespectful and dismissive to someone who has contributed so much to the community, without bothering to educate yourself about the topic at all before opening your mouth.

I’m not saying Shawn’s infallible or beyond criticism - nobody is - but this criticism was ignorant and disrespectful af. Unreal.

People have been talking publicly for years about many many steels they believe in, most of whom don't believe any of those particular steels are the "killer" or "king" or anything. You can choose to believe everything this person says is as good as gospel, but I take a more practical and logical approach.

That approach and reality being every single steel on the planet invented so far is a compromise in attributes. If you believe that 15v is the King of the universe, as apparently we are supposed to believe, then by all means spend every last dollar you have investing in knives with that blade steel.

It's an indisputable fact that 15v sacrifices toughness for a gain in other attributes. And again, I personally am not willing to sacrifice toughness for an increase in any other attributes, as compared to it's superior sisters 10v or K390.

I also can't blame someone financially invested in this venture, to make whatever claims they deem necessary to create the hype and demand, which we see with every new blade steel. It's not unlike the very same tactics used for Magnacut, which we saw being claimed as a M390 killer and so on and so forth, but as we have now discovered Magnacut has some major issues in a mass production folder. So don't take as fact everything the inventor/those financially invested have to say, is the main point and probably very sound advice.

I’ve been holding back on speaking my mind in response to several recent posts from forumites, but your comments, especially this one, pretty clearly demonstrate some sort of misunderstanding or misinterpretation on your part that is just resulting in hypocrisy.

BBB said 15V was the “king in regards to edge retention” of steels before you get into rex121 or Maxamet. Not the “king of steel”. That statement is true and has been demonstrated through scientific testing. It’s what we call “nuanced”. The made up quote you keep pretending was spoken, that “15V is king of the universe” or whatever is what we call lacking in nuance and is either a misunderstanding on your end or you being deliberately disingenuous.

Note that the phrase attached to the bottom on all of my posts is in the same vein as it refers to rex121 as the king of steel. A play on words in reference to the latin “rex” and the truth of it demonstrating the highest edge retention in tests. The rest of it “natures teeth…cutting for millions of years..” can be taken as a reference to Tyrannosaurus rex, the “king” of the tyrant lizards that had an incredible teeth and a devastatingly hard bite.

Again, I don’t remember Larrin Thomas ever calling his steel the best or an m390 killer or whatever. He very clearly and transparently marketed it what it is, a steel filling a gap in a particular area of performance among steels used in the knife industry.
You sound disingenuous regarding your framing of that as well. Perhaps stemming from a misunderstanding that, because Spyderco has apparently been working to dial in the optimal treatment of MagnaCut and they’ve been slower to the party, the steel is posing major issues in mass production(?). Your framing of that as somehow contrary to Larrin’s claims seems like a mischaracterization to me too.

Please notice that when Spy27 was introduced, both Larrin and BBB, who had no involvement (especially not financially), we’re intrigued and recognized that is was an improvement upon VG10 in various ways, even praising and promoting the steel’s edge properties in BBB’s case.

Compare that to Larrin’s recent skepticism of some claims made by Spyderco about the upcoming H2 steel that is to replace H1. It’s pretty clear that Larrin could just sing praises to win the favor of a customer for his MagnaCut, but there are numerous examples where this is not the case.

Larrin and BBB have instead challenged companies to do better, which seems to be paying off only to be met with undue, ignorant, and hypocritical critique.
Criticism is undue when it’s comes from a misconceived position.

Always preferred to offer an astute review over a critical one, as in my opinion critics are just looking for problems rather than the truth.

I’m calling it hypocritical because your insistence that 10V/k390 are “superior” could easily be taken the same way you’ve chosen to interpret BBB’s statements regarding 15V or Larrin’s on MagnaCut. You obviously just meant they’re superior toughness in the same way that BBB was clearly referring to edge retention.
But I guess toughness is the king of your universe…

Your bit of sound advice is so, but it doesn’t represent the present situation because theres plenty of cross examination and public scientific process around here. Nor is any astute person going to be burned because those invested in marketing these steels are also invested in marketing the truth for the same reasons. They’re passionate about steel performance and learning and educating others.

I don’t mean to veer too far into name calling, but I see so many of the same kinds of criticisms from propagators of pseudoscience trying undermine actual scientists and educators.
I just want to point that out so we can all reflect on how we approach these discussions, rather than saying what I have as an insult.
I’d like to be more precise in my wording and more thorough in my explanation, but hopefully this suffices to get my point across, for now.

Sorry for perhaps speaking out of turn. I’m pretty much just a random member that has simultaneously too much time on my hands and not yet enough energy to contribute much of value or make good on promises to do so.

It’s the middle of the night and reading some stuff I’m passionate about has me a little fired up, apologies.

[Cl1ff]

Oops, you were too late to stop me BBB!

[Deadboxhero]

Oops, you were too late to stop me BBB!

Hey man, you inspire me with your patience.

[Deadboxhero]

Factory Edge was removed.

This is the CATRA protocol edge using an Edge Pro with a 400 grit Cubic Boron Nitride metallic bonded at 15° per side.



Very crispy, with excellent aggression and bite. It can be difficult to get an edge this sharp with such a low grit, this is where the special heat treatment can help.

We can lower the bess score with higher grit and polishing but we loose the bite and aggression with draw cutting for more keenness and push cutting.