C-60 Ayoob Campaign: No I Won't Shut Up

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Blerv
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Re: C-60 Ayoob Campaign: No I Won't Shut Up

#2541

Post by Blerv »

JD Spydo wrote:
Fri Sep 02, 2022 9:31 am
Blerv my SE, C-60 Ayoob Sprint Run does not have that odd type weird looking anomaly on the serration pattern. Mine looks as uniform as any other great full SE Spyderco model that I've ever owned over the years.

However this anomaly on the serration pattern does have me extremely curious as to what the root of the problem might be in the manufacturing process. And like 3 others brothers have said on this thread that the overall performance will not be affected. And mine is performing is admirably.
Sorry let me rephrase. It’s terminating with a long scallop. Like the stock photo.

Nothing “weird” at all. Or at least I wouldn’t have thought so if I hadn’t seen all the other photos.

It’s a dang great knife. Exceptional finish (prob top 5 of my knives). It punches way outside the production folder weight class, like all Spydies.
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troutinCO
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Re: C-60 Ayoob Campaign: No I Won't Shut Up

#2542

Post by troutinCO »

I took mine apart and took pics, they are on page 116. The lock is way beefy and rock solid.
AyoobInside (6).jpg
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cabfrank
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Re: C-60 Ayoob Campaign: No I Won't Shut Up

#2543

Post by cabfrank »

128 pages in, more and more testimonials, this is amazing.
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Re: C-60 Ayoob Campaign: No I Won't Shut Up

#2544

Post by JD Spydo »

Blerv wrote:
Fri Sep 02, 2022 6:50 pm
JD Spydo wrote:
Fri Sep 02, 2022 9:31 am
Blerv my SE, C-60 Ayoob Sprint Run does not have that odd type weird looking anomaly on the serration pattern. Mine looks as uniform as any other great full SE Spyderco model that I've ever owned over the years.

However this anomaly on the serration pattern does have me extremely curious as to what the root of the problem might be in the manufacturing process. And like 3 others brothers have said on this thread that the overall performance will not be affected. And mine is performing is admirably.
Sorry let me rephrase. It’s terminating with a long scallop. Like the stock photo.

Nothing “weird” at all. Or at least I wouldn’t have thought so if I hadn’t seen all the other photos.

It’s a dang great knife. Exceptional finish (prob top 5 of my knives). It punches way outside the production folder weight class, like all Spydies.
Blerv I can't tell you how happy I am to hear that you do like the Sprint Run overall. Sorry if I misunderstood what you were trying to get across. But this has been much more than a typical Sprint Run to me. It's literally the resurrection of what I deem to be one of the top 5 best Spyderco folders ever produced.

A very much misunderstood and under-appreciated folder that never got it's well deserved accolades until now. I just hope we created a whole new fanbase for this model with this new Sprint Run. I'm hoping that most of the new fans that this Sprint Run generated will demand more of them ( sooner rather than later). This project has been far more than simply wanting an older model brought back in a brief Sprint Run. I personally feel that it's new found popularity has garnered a completely new fanbase all together. And for that I truly thank you all!
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Evil D
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Massad Ayoob Cruwear vs Original comparison pics

#2545

Post by Evil D »

Ok so I decided I'll put the comparison pics in here because really I don't know if I can say much more than Mark Greenman said in his thread about performance because my experience mirrors his pretty much to the letter, so I don't feel like I need to make a whole new thread about the benefits of the design.


Comparing to the original, they're obviously the same model but there are enough differences that you could almost call this a Massad Ayoob 2. What I don't have is the previous G10 sprint to compare, but I have a suspicion that since this new one is also screw construction that it has even more changes this time around.

To sum up, everything I noticed that differs; Screw construction, G10 and skeletonized liners, different size/design pivot pin, different thumb ramp profile, different thumb ramp jimping, different edge belly profile, different blade grind and height, different serration pattern/profile, different clip and clip hole pattern and 4 way clip, different lanyard hole, different gap between blade and liners/pivot (as in the machined "washers" on the inside around the pivot), different blade finish and overall fit and finish. Probably more I'm overlooking.

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Thumb ramp jimping. The shape of the ramp and the teeth themselves are different.
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Pivot pin difference. The new one is smaller and flush on the back screw head side. I can't say if the pin/head are only smaller on the outside since I can't take the pinned one apart to compare them.
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Pivot "washer" gap difference. The new version is wider than the original. If you like close at the new one you can even see the "washers" inside the gap.
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(those pics make it look like there's a blade stock thickness difference but one pic is just closer up to the camera than the other. In hand they're the same as far as I can tell)

Both have perfectly flush lock bars in both opened and closed positions.
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Serration pattern difference. Also the new one seems to be flat saber ground vs hollow saber ground on the original, but the original has such a short and shallow hollow grind that it's practically an irrelevant difference.
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Blade shape/belly/grind difference. This is hard to show in a picture because of the challenge of showing perspective in a picture, so in these pics where the red arrow is, that's where the camera is focused and the blades are centered and lined up from there. Perspective in a photo can make these differences look more or less than they really are but maybe this helps. You can pretty much see the difference just comparing the two in one picture, the new one has more belly and a less pointy and thicker blade tip.
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Clip position. I started out carrying this knife the first day in tip down just like my original, and I had a strong expectation that the design just worked better tip down because the shape of the handle fits the inside of a pocket better this way, and that's still quite true. However, I must say the maker did a fantastic job of positioning the clip for tip up and it works just fine that way. Besides curiosity, I changed the clip over to tip up because of two very significant reasons...1) having the clip on the bottom of the handle helps to give my fingers some traction during opening, and 2) that jimping is so dang sharp that on several occasions it snagged my pocket while drawing the knife and almost yanked it out of my hand. This may be a really big deal to those who plan on carrying this for self defense so it's something I strongly encourage those people to look into. The original had much more mellow jimping and I never had this issue. The kind of pants pockets you're carrying in may also make a difference, this happened to me in uniform/Dickies style slacks with side slit pockets, it may be less of an issue for jeans style pockets. I also noticed this snagging when putting the knife back into my pocket when I changed it to tip up (because then the jimping is going into the pocket first) and I could see this maybe stopping you from fully clipping the knife securely into place, so again something to be aware of. I will say the new jimping is significant better in terms of thumb traction.
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Lastly overall fit and finish differences. I must say, while the lockup and pivot action on the new one are second to none, I don't think the fit and finish are quite to the same level as the original. Maybe this is just a difference in how Cruwear gets finished, maybe it's cost cutting measures, you can decide. What I noticed was that the blade seems less finished than the original, the new one has noticable machining marks or laser path marks or whatever along the spine of the blade vs a smoothed and brushed finish on the original, and the thumb hole on the Cruwear is rougher and unfinished vs a cleaned up and machined surface on the original. This may even be a difference in how the blades are cut/stamped out in production, it may be that 21 years ago a blade was much more rough around the edges and required these extra steps to make them presentable, while today they're cut by laser and are good enough. It may be that this knife was cheaper to produce at a higher degree of fit and finish 21 years ago and these are just cost cutting details. Maybe this is just a sign of the difference between the generations that produced the two knives and maybe the new maker will eventually reach that extra refined level of fit and finish that the original has.

Overall I think it's an excellent knife and the maker did an excellent job. The details I think could be improved on are less important than things like lock up and pivot play, which this knife (or at least the ones I've handled) were as good or better than any other folder I've ever handled. All the examples I've handled did have a weird gritty feeling right out of the box but the two that I kept have smoothed out with a couple drops of lube and all of them drop shut with gravity while having no hint of wiggle in the pivot. The one I've been carrying does have a tiny bit of what you might call lock stick, but I think it's just due to how tightly and precisely the lock bar seats into the tang and it'll probably smooth out more over time as the surfaces wear together.


One last note on the snaggletooth serrations issue. I can't verify just yet but I suspect what we're seeing is related to the thickness change of the blade at the tip and the angle of the serration bevel. On the knife in these pics, the plain edge portion looks even width from end to end but the angle is much steeper at the tip than it is back at that last serration. I think they intentionally tried to make these knives look good and even, when this area of the knife is sort of a hot mess of angles and varying thicknesses. I think the knives with the "bad" looking serrations are probably the better knives to have, because I bet those serrations are closer to the angle of the rest of the serrations, while the ones that look "good" are probably ground at a steeper angle to make them look consistent. I think this because an edge bevel gets taller as the angle is lower and shorter as the angle is steeper, and the snaggletooth serrations look like they're closer in height (and therefore angle degree) as the rest of the serrations. So...looks aside, the snaggletooth versions may well be the better performing knives IMO.
All SE all the time since 2017
~David
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troutinCO
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Re: C-60 Ayoob Campaign: No I Won't Shut Up

#2546

Post by troutinCO »

Great review!
resonanzmacher
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Re: Massad Ayoob Cruwear vs Original comparison pics

#2547

Post by resonanzmacher »

Evil D wrote:
Sat Sep 03, 2022 4:36 pm
Ok so I decided I'll put the comparison pics in here because really I don't know if I can say much more than Mark Greenman said in his thread about performance because my experience mirrors his pretty much to the letter, so I don't feel like I need to make a whole new thread about the benefits of the design.
Good work.
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Re: C-60 Ayoob Campaign: No I Won't Shut Up

#2548

Post by benben »

Great review Evil, I was coming here to just say mine is so ridiculously smooth and fluid it may be the slickest Spyderco I’ve ever handled! Your review is just a little bit better! ;)
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Re: C-60 Ayoob Campaign: No I Won't Shut Up

#2549

Post by troutinCO »

I went and grabbed a second PE today.....
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Re: C-60 Ayoob Campaign: No I Won't Shut Up

#2550

Post by SpyderGrill »

Evil D

"So...looks aside, the snaggletooth versions may well be the better performing knives IMO"

Out of the 3 - 6 knives you bought, why did your review show the better looking serrated edge?

I have a PE Ive carryied almost everyday since I got it. Everything about it is perfect. Smooth action, after a drop of oil, and Im very happy this old model was available again. Thanks to everyone involved.

But,,, My SE has the "snaggletooth" and Im wondering how its going to be in the future after I try to sharpen. Sharpening knives is something Im not good at. What if I send to Spyderco to sharpen.

I cant cut anything with it, cant try and do a few swipes on the Sharpmaker to find out or I cant send the knife back. I only have a few days left to decide to get my full money back.

I have thought about ordering another like you did, and send the "bad" serration back. My luck, I get another "bad" serration
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Re: C-60 Ayoob Campaign: No I Won't Shut Up

#2551

Post by 0369Gsgt »

I'd got a SE and PE now. I'd like to get a couple SE for Christmas presents for my son's. Can anyone advise who has any of these in stock? These things are there now, gone tomorrow.
CriticalMe
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Re: C-60 Ayoob Campaign: No I Won't Shut Up

#2552

Post by CriticalMe »

Thank you JD, Sal, and everyone who made this model possible! I purchased the SE version (so far).

Handle likes: G10 (especially gray G10), the curve, thinness, the segmentation for your fingers, how it rides in the pocket tip up.

Blade likes: Serrations, thinness, no finger choil, no distal taper.

I've really come around to the back lock. I like how there is no gap in the handle where my thumb rests.
When I moved the clip for tip up carry a welcome side effect was the blade freeing up. It now drops readily to my index finger.
The serrations on my example don't follow the curve of the blade. They dive inward right before the plain edge at the tip causing a step at the intersection of the serration and plain edge. I would like to see the process used to serrate the blade on this and other Spyderco knives.

Thank you all again, this forum is awesome!
inactiveingredient
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Re: C-60 Ayoob Campaign: No I Won't Shut Up

#2553

Post by inactiveingredient »

black pocket clip felt off and a silver clip seemed more fitting, following the silver/grey color scheme on most of the knife.
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A bit odd that the screws are Phillips and also not 2-56 like most backlock models. the holes on the clip are also too small to fit 2-56 screw posts, making the ayoob's clip unavailable for the police that i stole the satin clip from.

I wish I could find some stainless torx screws that can fit into the liners. Are they 1-72?
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Re: C-60 Ayoob Campaign: No I Won't Shut Up

#2554

Post by JD Spydo »

Very well thought out review you shared with us David. The side by side comparison of the serrations on an original model compared to the new Cruwear Sprint Run are awesome. I like the new SE unit so much. For every day chores the newer serration pattern can truly have a lot of advantages.

This Sprint Run has turned out to be even much better than I had anticipated. I figured it would be a success but not to the degree I'm seeing so far.

I'm just so glad to see a lot of newer Spyderco fans get to enjoy a super classic model with upscale materials.
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mark greenman
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Re: Massad Ayoob Cruwear vs Original comparison pics

#2555

Post by mark greenman »

Evil D wrote:
Sat Sep 03, 2022 4:36 pm
Ok so I decided I'll put the comparison pics in here because really I don't know if I can say much more than Mark Greenman said in his thread about performance because my experience mirrors his pretty much to the letter, so I don't feel like I need to make a whole new thread about the benefits of the design.


Comparing to the original, they're obviously the same model but there are enough differences that you could almost call this a Massad Ayoob 2. What I don't have is the previous G10 sprint to compare, but I have a suspicion that since this new one is also screw construction that it has even more changes this time around.

To sum up, everything I noticed that differs; Screw construction, G10 and skeletonized liners, different size/design pivot pin, different thumb ramp profile, different thumb ramp jimping, different edge belly profile, different blade grind and height, different serration pattern/profile, different clip and clip hole pattern and 4 way clip, different lanyard hole, different gap between blade and liners/pivot (as in the machined "washers" on the inside around the pivot), different blade finish and overall fit and finish. Probably more I'm overlooking.

Image

Serration pattern difference. Also the new one seems to be flat saber ground vs hollow saber ground on the original, but the original has such a short and shallow hollow grind that it's practically an irrelevant difference.
Image

Blade shape/belly/grind difference. This is hard to show in a picture because of the challenge of showing perspective in a picture, so in these pics where the red arrow is, that's where the camera is focused and the blades are centered and lined up from there. Perspective in a photo can make these differences look more or less than they really are but maybe this helps. You can pretty much see the difference just comparing the two in one picture, the new one has more belly and a less pointy and thicker blade tip.
Image
Image
Image
Image
Image
Excellent review / analysis.

I hadn't even realized the newer model is less pointy / had a different profile tip to the original until you mentioned it.

I wonder what inspired that change?
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Evil D
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Re: Massad Ayoob Cruwear vs Original comparison pics

#2556

Post by Evil D »

mark greenman wrote:
Sun Sep 04, 2022 10:59 pm

Excellent review / analysis.

I hadn't even realized the newer model is less pointy / had a different profile tip to the original until you mentioned it.

I wonder what inspired that change?


Probably has something to do with the hollow grinding process and wheel. None of the ones I've handled have perfectly symmetrical blade grinds (including my original). Maybe this is just how my examples are? I wonder how the plain edges differ.
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Matus
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Re: C-60 Ayoob Campaign: No I Won't Shut Up

#2557

Post by Matus »

The difference in grind (angle and thickness) as shown in the photo of the two tips above is not something I am too happy about.
... I like weird :bug-red :bug-white-red :bug-white ...
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Re: C-60 Ayoob Campaign: No I Won't Shut Up

#2558

Post by Hopsbreath »

Matus wrote:
Mon Sep 05, 2022 2:27 am
The difference in grind (angle and thickness) as shown in the photo of the two tips above is not something I am too happy about.
It’s a thicc-boi; sent mine off for a regrind — I’ll post pics when it comes back.
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Re: C-60 Ayoob Campaign: No I Won't Shut Up

#2559

Post by JD Spydo »

Personally for me I'm just blown away at how much better grip/purchase this new Gray G-10 handle has compared to the past C-60 Ayoob models. Both of mine have such a superb grip it's as though it's a completely new model in some ways.

Not to mention this newer and better serration pattern on the SE model is a vast improvement as well. And that's saying a lot because I was truly a fanatic about the first two runs of the C-60 Ayoob. This new Sprint Run has had a deluxe, superior face lift needless to say.

I hope many of you feel the same way
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Re: C-60 Ayoob Campaign: No I Won't Shut Up

#2560

Post by TheGiant80 »

Evil D you're a beast! Super helpful as always..

Well my Ayoob arrives tomorrow. I'm trying to contain my excitement but this thread isn't doing me any favors.
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