Community Sharpening Journal

[Steeltoez83]

SteelToez, I am a stropping minimalist myself. I have never looked at a single knife as shaving gear in my life. I seldom go above a 300/400 grit edge. My general goal is big teeth and high aggression, refined to hair whittling sharpness if possible. No matter how gentle your passes are, there is an inherent difference between edge leading and edge trailing passes. And no matter how good your burr detection skills are, there are times when even the most skilled sharpeners designate a blade as deburred prematurely. "My system has worked for me" describes me completely as well. I didn't post the videos to change anyone's mind. It's just information. Feel free to disregard it, or learn from it.

My bess test numbers average about 120 to 130 grams so I'd say my methods work for me. Experimenting is never a bad thing. I stopped using my bess tester when I found discrepancies when calibrating at 185 grams tho. 400 grit edges were the lowest testing I could use to actually get a accurate test numbers with a 5 test spread within 15 grams. And I tested about 30 ish knives maybe only posted up 4 or 5 tho. I do believe sharpening knives is the best way to continually enjoy knives. So experimenting is always a breath of fresh air.

[Big John]

SteelToez, I am a stropping minimalist myself. I have never looked at a single knife as shaving gear in my life. I seldom go above a 300/400 grit edge. My general goal is big teeth and high aggression, refined to hair whittling sharpness if possible. No matter how gentle your passes are, there is an inherent difference between edge leading and edge trailing passes. And no matter how good your burr detection skills are, there are times when even the most skilled sharpeners designate a blade as deburred prematurely. "My system has worked for me" describes me completely as well. I didn't post the videos to change anyone's mind. It's just information. Feel free to disregard it, or learn from it.

My bess test numbers average about 120 to 130 grams so I'd say my methods work for me. Experimenting is never a bad thing. I stopped using my bess tester when I found discrepancies when calibrating at 185 grams tho. 400 grit edges were the lowest testing I could use to actually get a accurate test numbers with a 5 test spread within 15 grams. And I tested about 30 ish knives maybe only posted up 4 or 5 tho. I do believe sharpening knives is the best way to continually enjoy knives. So experimenting is always a breath of fresh air.

Kudos

[Big John]

I wouldn't be actually. I'm fully aware. That's why I'm a stropping minimalist. I just know that 1-3 extremely light passes at a tenth of a micron won't make or break an edge. Fortunately, the principles the videos speak of have more to do with stone work than stropping.

1-3 passes of 1 micron is enough to reduce slicing aggression on a toothy edge. That's why I stopped stropping. I get better edges that way.

I tried writing it as 0.1 micron and "tenth of a micron", even 200,000 grit for extra clarification. Somehow you keep seeing "1 micron". There is a 10x difference between the two (2, II). We're in agreement.

I wrote 1 micron because that's what I have. I don't have any experience with 0.1 micron. I was writing about my own experiences. no need to be condescending.

I wasn't trying to be condescending, I thought at a certain point you were doing that to me, though. Glad I'm mistaken. It certainly isn't the first and won't be the last time!

[TkoK83Spy]

Stropping is still a bit of a mystery for me. Sometimes it helps me achieve that next level, and sometimes it makes it duller than it was off the stones themselves. I give it a try here or there, but it's really not necessary for me. I'm sure that level of sharpness when achieved with the strop, doesn't last too long in the warehouse anyways.

[vivi]

Stropping is still a bit of a mystery for me. Sometimes it helps me achieve that next level, and sometimes it makes it duller than it was off the stones themselves. I give it a try here or there, but it's really not necessary for me. I'm sure that level of sharpness when achieved with the strop, doesn't last too long in the warehouse anyways.

I really like them for applying polished edges. Problem is aside from my razor I can't think of a blade I like taking to such a high polish.

Increased time investment in applying that edge type, and again in maintaining it.

[Big John]

Stropping is still a bit of a mystery for me. Sometimes it helps me achieve that next level, and sometimes it makes it duller than it was off the stones themselves. I give it a try here or there, but it's really not necessary for me. I'm sure that level of sharpness when achieved with the strop, doesn't last too long in the warehouse anyways.

The strop will only kill cutting ability, not sharpness.

Strops destroy the aggression one develops with a quality 200-400 grit stone. It destroys the aggression WHILE increasing the sharpness. Which is why sharpness isn't what everyone should strive for. Cutting ability is what you want. And if all you do is push cut, sharpness and geometry translate directly to cutting ability. But if you're any kind of normal person, that isn't the case. A rough edge, 200-400 grit, highly refined, will cut longer. Will it carve wood via push cut the same, or give you your lowest BESS test? No. But it will make cuts with less force for longer.

Aggression and sharpness are very different. That is why Murray Carter's "3 finger sharpness test" doesn't even test sharpness, it tests aggression. There are edges that would slice right through my finger if I did that test, that also wouldn't come close to whittling hair.

[vivi]

wise words.

[Soanso McMasters]

I like to whittle and carve spoons so on a lot of my knives I strop till I drop!

[Big John]

I like to whittle and carve spoons so on a lot of my knives I strop till I drop!

That's great. Unfortunately I've lost a lot of knives in my life, including an original Native that was my go-to for wood carving. I didn't bother spending thousands on 10k and 20k stones and above. For that particular knife, I stropped on wood. If your end goal is push cutting sharpness, it can be achieved with scrap wood and diamond powder/compound.

[metaphoricalsimile]

Basically just refining the factory edge on my new Cruwear PM2. I really love the results I get with a well-broken-in Worksharp 600 grit diamond stone and 1 micron diamonds on a hard leather strop, both freehand. In my experience this produces an edge that is a great balance of sharp and aggressive and cuts well for a long time.



I would also love to discuss a topic that I don't see much:

Fresh vs. broken-in diamond stones. There's a lot of discourse about course edges (especially from diamond stones) on this forum, but in my experience getting a good edge on diamonds pre-supposes a very broken in stone, and that just never seems to get mentioned. I have another worksharp 600 grit stone that I haven't done much work with and it will straight up *destroy* the apex on a knife, due to the "second layer" of diamonds that are adhered to other diamonds but not to the steel matrix. Until that layer is broken off I find diamond stones to be more frustrating than helpful, and I feel like people should know that if they're going to buy a diamond stone and expect to get an edge like Vivi straight out of the box.

[metaphoricalsimile]

Stropping is still a bit of a mystery for me. Sometimes it helps me achieve that next level, and sometimes it makes it duller than it was off the stones themselves. I give it a try here or there, but it's really not necessary for me. I'm sure that level of sharpness when achieved with the strop, doesn't last too long in the warehouse anyways.

If you ever strop and find that your sharp apex has been destroyed, IME that's evidence that you had a burr that was broken off by the strop, taking a bit of the triangular apex you're trying to form with it.

[u.w.]

Basically just refining the factory edge on my new Cruwear PM2. I really love the results I get with a well-broken-in Worksharp 600 grit diamond stone and 1 micron diamonds on a hard leather strop, both freehand. In my experience this produces an edge that is a great balance of sharp and aggressive and cuts well for a long time.



I would also love to discuss a topic that I don't see much:

Fresh vs. broken-in diamond stones. There's a lot of discourse about course edges (especially from diamond stones) on this forum, but in my experience getting a good edge on diamonds pre-supposes a very broken in stone, and that just never seems to get mentioned. I have another worksharp 600 grit stone that I haven't done much work with and it will straight up *destroy* the apex on a knife, due to the "second layer" of diamonds that are adhered to other diamonds but not to the steel matrix. Until that layer is broken off I find diamond stones to be more frustrating than helpful, and I feel like people should know that if they're going to buy a diamond stone and expect to get an edge like Vivi straight out of the box.

Nice edge!

For sure diamond stones get broken in.

I have a very well worn DMT coarse (blue) diafold that I use to deburr some of my newer/coarser 200- 300 grit edges. It very much works the charm for it too.

That said, I can and do de-burr on my "newer/coarser" diamond stones (HF 200 or 300 grit).
I REALLY like the/a coarse edge, so while it may take a bit more "care" to de-burr on the fresher/newer/coarser stones, I definitely do that too. And those edges are SO good (for me).

I know vivi has posted about his well worn DMT (6 in) extra-coarse stone before too.

But yeah, I definitely get what your saying on a "broken in" diamond stone. Definitely a thing.

u.w.

[vivi]

I would also love to discuss a topic that I don't see much:

Fresh vs. broken-in diamond stones. There's a lot of discourse about course edges (especially from diamond stones) on this forum, but in my experience getting a good edge on diamonds pre-supposes a very broken in stone, and that just never seems to get mentioned. I have another worksharp 600 grit stone that I haven't done much work with and it will straight up *destroy* the apex on a knife, due to the "second layer" of diamonds that are adhered to other diamonds but not to the steel matrix. Until that layer is broken off I find diamond stones to be more frustrating than helpful, and I feel like people should know that if they're going to buy a diamond stone and expect to get an edge like Vivi straight out of the box.

There's definitely a big difference between fresh vs worn stones.

Even sharpmaker rods will wear down. They'll work for decades as I can attest to, but a ten year old sharpmaker rod will leave a much finer finish and work more slowly than a fresh one.

I have DMT plates that are pushing 20 years old at this point. They still put very nice edges on my knives. A really old fine DMT continuous I don't use much these days, and an X Coarse with the holes in the surface that was my favotite stone for a while.

The X Coarse was the one I experimented with after realizing medium sharpmaker edges work better for me than ultrafine. It worked better than the medium finish. It's since been replaced by the harbor freight stones.

I cycle those $12 harbor freight stones. I don't have my most worn one handy as I keep it next to my knife roll at work, but here's the one I use at home VS a brand new one:



On these 4 sided diamond stones I typically use them as follows:

200 grit side - reprofiling
300 grit - final edge
400 grit - typically not used, been trying it out at work lately
600 grit - never used, not a fan of how polished it is

I've experimented with 200, 300 and 400 grit edges, and I like 200 & 300 the best.

I generally go with 300 grit for the final apex because the 200 grit side gets broken in fast after re-edging a few knives.

I've compared worn versions next to brand new ones. The worn ones give a finer edge comparing the same grit to a fresh one, as you'd expect.

I've got 4 at the moment. Two brand new back-ups, my first one I use at work, and a newer user I keep at home.

I like the more aggressive edges I get from the fresher stones. Which is the main reason I use 300 grit for the final edge.

For a while I kept two of these in use at home and would reprofile with one 200 grit, and use the fresher one for touch-ups and final apexing.

My baseline expectation is "clean scrape shaving" off the 200 grit side fresh out of the package, and hair popping sharpness off the 300 grit side.

They also used to sell a set of three plates, 180 grit, 260 and 380 IIRC. I experimented with those too.


Big fan of the 260 for final edges. The 180 cuts a little faster than the 200 grit side of the four sided stone, but it's also less stable and need re-adjusted every so often so it works slower all things considered.

-----------------------------

I'm still using the same edge on my Pacific Salt as when I updated that microscope thread.

viewtopic.php?p=1635813#p1635813

Parts of the edge still scrape shave a month later.

Touched up some knives tonight and it took some self control to not touch up the Pacific. While it still cuts well it isn't at the level of a fresh edge. But I want to use it until it stops working and see how long that takes.

----------------

I've been considering putting up one of my hand sharpened Pacific Salts for a pass-around, and including one of these stones.

[vivi]

some recent touch-ups:


street beat



street bowie



aqua salt




took the serrated portion of my ce resilience down from ~23 degrees to 20.



still need to go back over it and smooth things out, this was right after I ground off all the sharpie with the diamond rods. Next I'm taking the PE portion a bit thinner and coarser. Once I'm done seeing how long it takes to dull my Pacific, I want to give it some pocket time. Big fan of this knife.

[vivi]

finished the resilience during my break today. went with medium rod finish for the serrations and 300 grit diamond plate for the plain edge. stropped both parts with 1 micron twice per side. either section will catch hairs above the skin.





Excited to use it. Both parts of the edge are a little thinner and sharper than they've ever been.

[cabfrank]

It looks so good.

[TkoK83Spy]

Really does, so coarse yet clean. That's probably best looking combo edge I've seen.

[vivi]

Thanks! Happy with how it turned out. Couldn't resist carrying it today.

I cycle those $12 harbor freight stones. I don't have my most worn one handy as I keep it next to my knife roll at work, but here's the one I use at home VS a brand new one:



On these 4 sided diamond stones I typically use them as follows:

200 grit side - reprofiling
300 grit - final edge
400 grit - typically not used, been trying it out at work lately
600 grit - never used, not a fan of how polished it is

Here's my oldest for comparison:



Used it to touch up my beater chef knife. A $20 portugese knife.

[Wandering_About]

My favorite little fixed blade was in dire need of attention. 3 inch blade made of MagnaCut at 64-65Rc. 1000 grit diamond stone, stropped with 1 micron diamond on hard smooth leather. Took a little while to reset the bevel, I'd stropped it far too many times out of laziness.

[Bemo]

Hey Wandering, how's the sharpening experience with the MagnaCut?