LC200n? What am I doing wrong

[S-3 ranch]

lc200n is 2x as tough as vg10 and bd1n according to larrins chart



Might be better off with PE too. Comes with a thicker edge and if it does chip, repairing it usually takes 10 minutes or less.

It’s edge retention is sacrificed for toughness and corrosion resistance ?

Not always but usually, generally the softer the steel the tougher the blade but also the less edge retention, but too hard and it can be brittle. The trick is getting the right balance between the 3 to fit what you intend to use the knife for the most.

Yeah balance of the three, then in full serrated, probably = vg10 or bd1n,unless spyderco makes
Serrated something else besides H1 LC200n, vg10,bd1n

[vivi]

lc200n is 2x as tough as vg10 and bd1n according to larrins chart



Might be better off with PE too. Comes with a thicker edge and if it does chip, repairing it usually takes 10 minutes or less.

It’s edge retention is sacrificed for toughness and corrosion resistance ?

its edge retention is a bit under vg10 but not far off.

toughness matters more than edge holding when it comes to apex failure. in my experience h1 is the toughest stainless / stainproof steel spyderco offers.

[Fly Fishing Rick]

lc200n is 2x as tough as vg10 and bd1n according to larrins chart



Might be better off with PE too. Comes with a thicker edge and if it does chip, repairing it usually takes 10 minutes or less.

It’s edge retention is sacrificed for toughness and corrosion resistance ?

Not always but usually, generally the softer the steel the tougher the blade but also the less edge retention, but too hard and it can be brittle. The trick is getting the right balance between the 3 to fit what you intend to use the knife for the most.

Yeah balance of the three, then in full serrated, probably = vg10 or bd1n,unless spyderco makes
Serrated something else besides H1 LC200n, vg10,bd1n

Have you considered a plain edge blade? something like a Cru-Wear Para 2 would probably be great for farm/ranch work imo but I strongly prefer a PE. I also usually prefer something very thin and slicey for EDC like my Chaparral but I think for hard use you may find a thicker blade like the Para 2 more versatile for hard use tasks.

[Eli Chaps]

To be clear, I wasn't trying to say that BD1N will be tougher than LC200N, I was just referencing it in connection to the models I mentioned as they are offered in so many different steels. I don't keep up as close as I used to but if you can get the knife you like in a PE LC200N, that's what I'd do.

A million years ago, I lived on a cattle ranch and we used carpet/utility knives for a LOT of tasks. Some guys even had leather belt sheaths made for them.

[JSumm]

If anyone is interested, the Good Dr. Larrin has some edge stability articles out. Long but good read. Lots of factors go into edge stability with possibly hardness being the most important. To prevent chipping Toughness, Carbide volume and size are also important. K390 in my experience has performed the best in plain edge.

https://knifesteelnerds.com/2018/08/27/ ... stability/

https://knifesteelnerds.com/2018/09/24/ ... ty-part-2/

[S-3 ranch]

It’s edge retention is sacrificed for toughness and corrosion resistance ?

Not always but usually, generally the softer the steel the tougher the blade but also the less edge retention, but too hard and it can be brittle. The trick is getting the right balance between the 3 to fit what you intend to use the knife for the most.

Yeah balance of the three, then in full serrated, probably = vg10 or bd1n,unless spyderco makes
Serrated something else besides H1 LC200n, vg10,bd1n

Have you considered a plain edge blade? something like a Cru-Wear Para 2 would probably be great for farm/ranch work imo but I strongly prefer a PE. I also usually prefer something very thin and slicey for EDC like my Chaparral but I think for hard use you may find a thicker blade like the Para 2 more versatile for hard use tasks.

I have loads of PE knives In quality steel, m390 , 440v / s60vn , 440c ,bd1n, vg10, ect
And carry one EDC , I also carry a delica size serrated EDC for yoman work because serrated is lower maintenance , this LC200n salt 2 was a experiment in something new .
My OP was to gauge if I was off base on LC200n being “ softer & higher maintenance “

[metaphoricalsimile]

I'd go with plain edge in a tougher, easy to repair steel. I like a Manix 2LW or Para 3LW in BD1N or similar here. I'd run a little higher angle (~18-20dps) and thicker edge. I'd not personally go VG10 for this role. I like VG10 and although Spyderco runs it a touch soft, it can still be a little chippy in hard use. Nothing terrible though so if there was a knife design that fit you well, then go for it.

LC200N is significantly tougher than BD1N, which is not a particularly tough steel at all.

That being said, what OP needs isn't toughness, it's edge stability, which is a property that derives from both toughness *and* hardness, and LC200N just can't be hardened that high. Cruwear or Mangacut treated relatively high would probably be the best bet, although I agree with Evil D that the tasks that OP is describing are going to be tough on any blade.

[Eli Chaps]

I'd go with plain edge in a tougher, easy to repair steel. I like a Manix 2LW or Para 3LW in BD1N or similar here. I'd run a little higher angle (~18-20dps) and thicker edge. I'd not personally go VG10 for this role. I like VG10 and although Spyderco runs it a touch soft, it can still be a little chippy in hard use. Nothing terrible though so if there was a knife design that fit you well, then go for it.

LC200N is significantly tougher than BD1N, which is not a particularly tough steel at all.

That being said, what OP needs isn't toughness, it's edge stability, which is a property that derives from both toughness *and* hardness, and LC200N just can't be hardened that high. Cruwear or Mangacut treated relatively high would probably be the best bet, although I agree with Evil D that the tasks that OP is describing are going to be tough on any blade.

As I clarified, I didn't mean to imply that BD1N was tougher than LC200N and realize I worded that poorly. I simply meant I'd go with one of the readily available tougher steel options in the knives I suggested.

I understand edge stability and that's why I suggested the thicker edge, but I was leaning to the ease of touch ups more than anything. The work the OP is describing is going to hammer an edge and I don't care what the steel, HT, or geometry is. Some combos may hold out longer than others but that's serious stuff and they are all going to have issues of some kind.

I honestly think this is where BD1 shined but I reckon it wasn't hip enough to stick around. In my mind, and everyone is surely free to have their own thoughts, a knife for this kind of work is more or less going to be disposable. I'd prioritize ergonomics, carry-ability, and general design preferences way over the steel type. Then I'd put it to work and sharpen and thin as often as needed. Even at that, the knife should last years.

Now, K390 is another matter but the corrosion propensity might well be a problem here so I didn't recommend it.

[Vaugith]

Remember, toughness is resistance to fracture, snapping, and chipping, hardness is resistance to plastic deformation including rolls and bending the blade. Lc200n is fairly soft for a Spyderco at 58hrc but also very tough for a stainless steel. In my experience it can have great edge stability, but I would not expect that out of the factory edge. Edge stability typically improves after a few sharpenings... I freehand sharpened mine with a convex bevel and now have an extremely stable apex.

My favorite part about lc200n is how easy and fast it is to touch up on a sharpmaker rod or pocket stone. Literally just a few light swipes and you're back to shaving sharp.

[Evil D]

I feel like all of these issues can be resolved through sharpening. Example, Vivi has amazing results with H1, he's clearly doing something that I'm not because I don't think I could tell apart H1/VG10/LC200N until it came time to sharpen them. I sharpen them all the same at the same angles and edge finishes and I've seen them all take very similar damage. I can't honestly say any of those three are better at avoiding edge damage. There are subtle differences in how they sharpen and grind but I bet most people couldn't tell them apart in a blind test.

[S-3 ranch]

I feel like all of these issues can be resolved through sharpening. Example, Vivi has amazing results with H1, he's clearly doing something that I'm not because I don't think I could tell apart H1/VG10/LC200N until it came time to sharpen them. I sharpen them all the same at the same angles and edge finishes and I've seen them all take very similar damage. I can't honestly say any of those three are better at avoiding edge damage. There are subtle differences in how they sharpen and grind but I bet most people couldn't tell them apart in a blind test.

Yeah the easy sharpening steels to the unversed , throw in a s110v and then watch the show begin

[Wandering_About]

I've always had issues with the edge durability of serrations, regardless of steel. And that coming from a guy whose plain edges are usually very thin. I find plain edge easier for me to adjust/reprofile/repair so that probably plays into my preference.

LC200N is rather soft, may take a steeper edge angle if you're really punishing it to avoid deforming the edge. I have found it to work fine in plain edge personally. It sharpens up very easily.

[JRinFL]

LC200N has lower edge retention than 440A. So, yeah, it is going to be a steel you need to touch up often. You have to give up something to get that toughness & corrosion resistance.

[twinboysdad]

Once again, we are reminded just how baller VG10 really is. I get it sticky sharp better than any other steel and in minimal time.

[Evil D]

Once again, we are reminded just how baller VG10 really is. I get it sticky sharp better than any other steel and in minimal time.

It's a steel that would still be a big deal today if a foundry brought it out with a trendy, catchier name.

[JSumm]

Once again, we are reminded just how baller VG10 really is. I get it sticky sharp better than any other steel and in minimal time.

It's a steel that would still be a big deal today if a foundry brought it out with a trendy, catchier name.

They did, SPY27.

[spoonrobot]

I've only used LC200N in 1 model (Spydiechef) but I've owned 3 of them and my experience with all of them was underwhelming and basically in line with yours.

For the inevitable "knives aren't meant to cut open bags of cement" comments, I opened 38 bags with an s45vn Inkosi before any significant edge damage occured. Not saying that to compare s45vn to LC200N, that would be crazy. Just saying it to point out that plenty of steels can handle opening cement.

This is interesting, because it's helpful to illustrate that CATRA - which now informs everyone's world - is more of a rough outline of a given steel's real world performance for a given end user.

IME, H1 and LC200N are worthless for opening bags of cement - which involves cutting what is essentially silicate impregnated paper. A few bags and the edge is a butter knife. However, M4 can open a few bags and still shave - and several, if not dozens of bags before sustaining damage. These results are vastly different that one would think at surface level - does CATRA show 15x times edge holding for M4 compared to LC200N? Nope.

Later, I had occasion to cut a ton of wet cardboard and carpet - the LC200N performed significantly better than M4 - especially as the day wore on and the cuts became less frequent and the knives spent more time in my humid pocket, I suspect the M4 started suffering from corrosion which reduced the useable lifespan of the edge. Not a concern with LC200N.

This is all part of current trend of over-reliance on third party quantitative metrics that are more of a conceptual framework than a direct path to real world performance. This is not meant to be a slight against anyone, an observation instead. I see and have seen a lot of people who don't want to try things because they're "bad" based on a misunderstanding of how things work.

LC200N has lower edge retention than 440A.

I don't think this is accurate. Nobody is making top tier 440A, the vast majority (possibly all) mass market 440A knives will perform significantly worse than any current LC200N knife.

[skeeg11]

LC200N has lower edge retention than 440A.

I don't think this is accurate. Nobody is making top tier 440A, the vast majority (possibly all) mass market 440A knives will perform significantly worse than any current LC200N knife.

Agreed!

[VooDooChild]

I have opened a couple bags of cement with serrated h1 without an issue.

[vivi]

I have opened a couple bags of cement with serrated h1 without an issue.

probably comes down to technique more than blade steel. if you stab the knife in balls deep and bang the edge against the materials in the bag it'll dull much faster than if you slice just the bag. Easier said than done when you're working hard trying to get the job done though.