Chaparral slip-it on its way

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GarageBoy
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Re: Chaparral slip-it on its way

#21

Post by GarageBoy »

Mushroom wrote:
Thu Jun 16, 2022 7:05 am
I know I’m fighting a battle that has already been lost but I’m adamant about this, I genuinely hope it does not share the Chaparral moniker.

Either that or I hope there is a formal announcement and a big deal is made about the giant departure from the Chaparral’s original intention.

A slipjoint Chaparral will be another slot in the production queue taken up by an already existing model. It’s just more of the same in my mind, and not impressed by participation trophies.
That's kind of a selfish take - "it doesn't interest me, why is Spyder wasting time on this vs something I want"

Also many designs have evolved - you could say the same about the police, or the yojimbo
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Re: Chaparral slip-it on its way

#22

Post by Mushroom »

GarageBoy wrote:
Fri Jun 17, 2022 6:00 am
Mushroom wrote:
Thu Jun 16, 2022 7:05 am
I know I’m fighting a battle that has already been lost but I’m adamant about this, I genuinely hope it does not share the Chaparral moniker.

Either that or I hope there is a formal announcement and a big deal is made about the giant departure from the Chaparral’s original intention.

A slipjoint Chaparral will be another slot in the production queue taken up by an already existing model. It’s just more of the same in my mind, and not impressed by participation trophies.
That's kind of a selfish take - "it doesn't interest me, why is Spyder wasting time on this vs something I want"

Also many designs have evolved - you could say the same about the police, or the yojimbo
That’s a weird, and inaccurate, interpretation of my post.
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Re: Chaparral slip-it on its way

#23

Post by GarageBoy »

So what does the chaparral mean to you and why is the name sacred?

You are saying it's more of the same and taking up precious production queue time, maybe they are making fewer of a less in demand knife so they can offer this.

Sorry, didn't mean to be aggressive, but this forum has turned into a lot of "why don't they make this with this", or "how come they are doing that to that model"
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Re: Chaparral slip-it on its way

#24

Post by cjk »

I might have some interest in a Chaparral Slipit if it has a full spine (no gaps like the FRN UKPK), steel liners, bronze washers, and interesting scales. Basically the same kinda materials as a back lock Chaparral, only a slipjoint. I think I'd be more interested if the scales on the slipit offerings were different than the back lock. For example, I'd probably see no appeal to a Maple slipit Chaparral over a Maple back lock Chaparral. Then again, I'm in the US so really not the target market for it.
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Re: Chaparral slip-it on its way

#25

Post by curlyhairedboy »

I reckon simple covers could be nice, but if they do something similar to the one-eyed jack, that would certainly get a lot of people on board.
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Re: Chaparral slip-it on its way

#26

Post by Doc Dan »

I think the size is better than the UKPK for my use.

@curlyhairedboy Wouldn't that be sweet?! I have to have it, for sure, but then the price would be sky high.
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Re: Chaparral slip-it on its way

#27

Post by sal »

It's still 6 months to a year out.

sal
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Re: Chaparral slip-it on its way

#28

Post by z1r »

sal wrote:
Fri Jun 17, 2022 9:58 am
It's still 6 months to a year out.

sal
Then I'll be able to better afford it! :winking-tongue

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Re: Chaparral slip-it on its way

#29

Post by N. Brian Huegel »

Hi Sal:

Did you say where the Chaparral SlipIt will be made? Taiwan or US?

nb
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Re: Chaparral slip-it on its way

#30

Post by Mushroom »

GarageBoy wrote:
Fri Jun 17, 2022 7:17 am
So what does the chaparral mean to you and why is the name sacred?

You are saying it's more of the same and taking up precious production queue time, maybe they are making fewer of a less in demand knife so they can offer this.

Sorry, didn't mean to be aggressive, but this forum has turned into a lot of "why don't they make this with this", or "how come they are doing that to that model"
In my perception, Spyderco has maintained a high level of integrity with everything they do. It’s something that I really admire about the company and a big reason why I’m a Spyderco enthusiast.

I was always under the impression that the Chaparral was intended to be a series of gentlemen’s folders with identical blade and handle profiles while showcasing different handle materials and manufacturing techniques. There’s a level of control with that, that goes away when they start introducing differences beyond handle material.

Recently Sal has said something like the FRN Chaparral will feature various blade steels as well. Given that and this news, I wholly expect there to be at least one new blade shape at some point too. I guess they never actually backed themselves into a corner regarding these types of changes but to me it still feels a little dishonest to make changes other than handle material.

It’s not so much that the name is sacred to me but I have a high level of respect for the consistency that the series has maintained. (Sorry to make it sound deeper than it really is) I’m expecting the name to be something simple like “Slip-it Chaparral.” In my mind it just takes way from the prestige of the original model and makes it a little less special. Off topic but regarding a new size variation of the Chaparral, I will no longer view it as a true Chaparral so I will remain adamant that it should further distinguish itself from the original and not share the name at all.

Saying a Slip-it is a “giant departure” from the platforms original intention is admittedly a bit exaggerated but I still view it as a change of direction and I still feel like it should be publicly noted by Spyderco as such.

I say “More of the same” as in we’re getting yet another existing model with a simple change and it’s being presented under the guise of something new. It feels like deceptive marketing to me and I don’t like feeling deceived by a company I hold in such high regard.

Also, considering how similar a backlock and slipjoint are, the conversion does not seem difficult. It looks like the easy way out to me, as if they’re cutting corners to release something “new.” (Now of course, the changes aren’t quite so simple to implement, as it’s basically a whole new model. It is still an intensive process for the people doing the CAD, programming the tooling, the prototyping, etc. but in the grand scheme of things, it’s a fairly simple change.) I know for a fact Spyderco does not need to cut corners to be great because they’ve proven that time and time again.

To a certain degree, I understand how difficult the global supply chain issues have made things for manufacturers in all industries and how that has a trickle down affect on everyone but that’s a much bigger discussion than this. Spyderco isn’t unique in the sense that they’re also dealing with many of the same issues as everyone else. I don’t know how much all of that has effected their production queue but the frequency of taking existing models and making simple changes to come out with a “new” model has really increased in the past few years.

Spyderco has been having trouble keeping up with demand and maintaining inventory in general. Devoting resources to producing a slip-it Chaparral is ultimately taking away resources that could have otherwise been devoted to catching up with inventory of regular production models or to developing something actually new. While technically a Slip-it Chaparral is a new model, in my mind it really isn’t.

I’m not trying to tell them how to run their business; I would never try to be so bold. More so, attempting to accurately express my feelings for thinking resources could have been better served elsewhere.


All that said, I still consider myself an enthusiast of the brand and have the full intention of being one for as long as possible. :respect :bug-red
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Re: Chaparral slip-it on its way

#31

Post by TkoK83Spy »

Interesting...though I know for me, when it comes to a Spyderco slippie...there is absolutely NO beating the UKPK. More edge length, incredible ergos, more to get your hand onto and I believe a little thicker as well to fill out the hand a bit better.
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Re: Chaparral slip-it on its way

#32

Post by z1r »

I don't have a need for a large slipjoint. to me, the SJ Chap would be a perfect size and in keeping with what I already use my Chap for.
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Re: Chaparral slip-it on its way

#33

Post by Wartstein »

fixall wrote:
Thu Jun 16, 2022 10:48 pm
I for one am very happy that a whole population of people who have never had the chance to experience the amazingness that is the Chaparral (because of knife laws prohibiting locking knives), will now have the chance to see what all the fuss is about. The pushback saddens me. Sometimes it's not just about us here in the U.S.

Totally with you!

Sal has also said this (quote, can´t find the link to the post right now though): "I made the FRN version because I felt there was a market for a less expensive utility version. This also offers opportunity for colors, exclusive variations and who knows what else. I'm currently testing a serrated version, which is performing well"

I think that´s great, exactly because of basically the reason you mention: The Chap is amazing in it´s very unique way, and folks who can´t carry a locking folder or need total rustproofness or vastly prefer SE or whatever imo should get the chance to try that design too (see also this thread about this very topic: viewtopic.php?f=2&t=92165#p1614611)
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Re: Chaparral slip-it on its way

#34

Post by aicolainen »

Mushroom wrote:
Fri Jun 17, 2022 1:51 pm
GarageBoy wrote:
Fri Jun 17, 2022 7:17 am
So what does the chaparral mean to you and why is the name sacred?

You are saying it's more of the same and taking up precious production queue time, maybe they are making fewer of a less in demand knife so they can offer this.

Sorry, didn't mean to be aggressive, but this forum has turned into a lot of "why don't they make this with this", or "how come they are doing that to that model"
In my perception, Spyderco has maintained a high level of integrity with everything they do. It’s something that I really admire about the company and a big reason why I’m a Spyderco enthusiast.

I was always under the impression that the Chaparral was intended to be a series of gentlemen’s folders with identical blade and handle profiles while showcasing different handle materials and manufacturing techniques. There’s a level of control with that, that goes away when they start introducing differences beyond handle material.

Recently Sal has said something like the FRN Chaparral will feature various blade steels as well. Given that and this news, I wholly expect there to be at least one new blade shape at some point too. I guess they never actually backed themselves into a corner regarding these types of changes but to me it still feels a little dishonest to make changes other than handle material.

It’s not so much that the name is sacred to me but I have a high level of respect for the consistency that the series has maintained. (Sorry to make it sound deeper than it really is) I’m expecting the name to be something simple like “Slip-it Chaparral.” In my mind it just takes way from the prestige of the original model and makes it a little less special. Off topic but regarding a new size variation of the Chaparral, I will no longer view it as a true Chaparral so I will remain adamant that it should further distinguish itself from the original and not share the name at all.

Saying a Slip-it is a “giant departure” from the platforms original intention is admittedly a bit exaggerated but I still view it as a change of direction and I still feel like it should be publicly noted by Spyderco as such.

I say “More of the same” as in we’re getting yet another existing model with a simple change and it’s being presented under the guise of something new. It feels like deceptive marketing to me and I don’t like feeling deceived by a company I hold in such high regard.

Also, considering how similar a backlock and slipjoint are, the conversion does not seem difficult. It looks like the easy way out to me, as if they’re cutting corners to release something “new.” (Now of course, the changes aren’t quite so simple to implement, as it’s basically a whole new model. It is still an intensive process for the people doing the CAD, programming the tooling, the prototyping, etc. but in the grand scheme of things, it’s a fairly simple change.) I know for a fact Spyderco does not need to cut corners to be great because they’ve proven that time and time again.

To a certain degree, I understand how difficult the global supply chain issues have made things for manufacturers in all industries and how that has a trickle down affect on everyone but that’s a much bigger discussion than this. Spyderco isn’t unique in the sense that they’re also dealing with many of the same issues as everyone else. I don’t know how much all of that has effected their production queue but the frequency of taking existing models and making simple changes to come out with a “new” model has really increased in the past few years.

Spyderco has been having trouble keeping up with demand and maintaining inventory in general. Devoting resources to producing a slip-it Chaparral is ultimately taking away resources that could have otherwise been devoted to catching up with inventory of regular production models or to developing something actually new. While technically a Slip-it Chaparral is a new model, in my mind it really isn’t.

I’m not trying to tell them how to run their business; I would never try to be so bold. More so, attempting to accurately express my feelings for thinking resources could have been better served elsewhere.


All that said, I still consider myself an enthusiast of the brand and have the full intention of being one for as long as possible. :respect :bug-red
IMO this move does not go against their integrity at all.
While it’s nice of them to use a specific model to explore different scale materials, it would be insane to lock down the potential of a specific design to that one specific theme and stop exploring other interesting potentials that the designer may or may not have had in mind from the outset.
Now, while this approach to making a new model may be the easy way out, we also have to consider there may not be an alternative path to a similar endpoint. Sometimes you just look at something and it just clicks - eureka! A new idea and a new model begins to take form.

From where I stand, this evolution makes sense. It’s a design with a super slicy blade, short enough to be legal in most places and a very slim carry. All typical features you expect from a traditional slip joint, but with all the conveniences of a modern folder.
I don’t need a slip joint in my day to day life, but I like to have at least one with modern features like one hand open/close and a pocket clip for the occasional travel use case. Besides I tend to like them, they’re charming in their own way. My current pick for this use case is the HH Urban, and while it has better ergos than the chap, I would probably carry a Sliparral more often, if for no other reason than its slimmer handle.

I’m curious to see what handle material the choose for this one. I love my FRN Chap, and struggle to imagine a similar knife with a different material. Hopefully something that’s both simple and elegant, and not too polarizing.
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Re: Chaparral slip-it on its way

#35

Post by Ramonade »

Well, it'll be my first Spyderco slipit.
They are way more accepted here, so I'm often carrying one. IMO it has the best blade shape and thickness.
This knife would make its way into my pockets constantly when I have to see people (otherwise, I'll take a Military or a Yojumbo :squinting-tongue ).

I hope they stick to CTS-XHP, I've grown fond of that steel. I like that it keeps a really good bite for a while after sharpening it to a high polish.
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Re: Chaparral slip-it on its way

#36

Post by cjk »

The 2mm thin blade stock has often reminded me a bit of a slip joint anyway. It’s about the same thickness as the large blade on the SAK I’ve had for over 30 years.
The Chaparral is a fancy knife. I’m glad the UK folks will get fancier stuff too. It’s great that we all get to have nice things.
I actually do hope it will be available in the US as well.
I wonder if it will include the internal stop pins like the current Chaparral. The thin blade and those stop pins are the most interesting features of the Chap.

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Re: Chaparral slip-it on its way

#37

Post by Doc Dan »

As much as I like the UKPK, and I really do, the Chaparral is more pocket friendly in size. The blade is nearly as long, as the UKPK, too. I'm actually excited over this and I wonder what scale material they will use for the first one. Will it be a light weight with FRN, or will it be a regular with some fancy scale material, like ebony? I'd like to know. I am looking forward to this one.
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Re: Chaparral slip-it on its way

#38

Post by Tgmr05 »

Looking forward to this one. I do not necessarily frequent areas that require no locking blades, but it is nice to have some for those occasions. Plus, it will give folks that prefer slip joints the opportunity to truly see how excellent the Chaparral is.
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Re: Chaparral slip-it on its way

#39

Post by sal »

The FRN Chappie was a departure, my call, based on requests by our customers for that departure. The pattern is the same, but the departure permits us to offer variations while maintaining the pattern for those wanting a less expensive version, colors and maybe steels. Don't know about blade shapes? Haven't had much in the way of requests for that. The Slipit variation was a request from the Brits, whom like the pattern, but can't legally carry the model in the UK. again, my call. We reserve the right to please r customers even if there are variations from basic projects. Since the design is mine, I can offer these mods and still maintain the integrity of the basic pattern project.

The Shaman is my design and there are 4 variations of the basic pattern in-the-works. The "racing" lighter version, (sucked out the weight and bulk), the Choil-less version and an frn version (less expensive) all of which I felt would serve particular preferences of or customers.

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Re: Chaparral slip-it on its way

#40

Post by Wartstein »

sal wrote:
Wed Jun 22, 2022 10:45 pm
The FRN Chappie was a departure, my call, based on requests by our customers for that departure. The pattern is the same, but the departure permits us to offer variations while maintaining the pattern for those wanting a less expensive version, colors and maybe steels. Don't know about blade shapes? Haven't had much in the way of requests for that. ....

The Shaman is my design and there are 4 variations of the basic pattern in-the-works. The "racing" lighter version, (sucked out the weight and bulk), the Choil-less version and an frn version (less expensive) ...

Hi Sal,

thanks for the insight! :smlling-eyes

- As for Chaparral blade shapes: I think quite some people would love a wharnie... (see here viewtopic.php?f=2&t=92165 for example), and I hope will see the Chap SE you said you were testing, soon.

- Shaman variants: Wow, interesting that the FRN version is NOT identical with the light version!
Top three going by pocket-time (update March 24):
- EDC: Endura thin red line ffg combo edge (VG10); Wayne Goddard PE (4V), Endela SE (VG10)
-Mountains/outdoors: Pac.Salt 1 SE (H1), Salt 2 SE (LC200N), and also Wayne Goddard PE (4V)
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