new knife steels
new knife steels
With all these new knife steels I get more and more confused. Used to be ATS 34 was hi-tech, now to be on the "cutting edge" of steel technology you have to get into BG 42, CPM 440V, VG10, CPM3V, CPM420V, etc. And now I read where the new designator for CPM440V is S60V and for CPM420V it's S90V. My undrstanding is that the "V" is vanadium which helps in blade wear (like CPM3V is 3% vanadadium and CPM10V is 10% vanadium). The question I have is for a "self-defense" type knife which blade steel is the best;that is, has the most "impact" strength or "toughness? Isn't molybdenum related to "strength"? I realize a lot more goes into a good defense knife than just the steel. Lot of good knives out there but couple of weeks ago I saw a Spyderco "Chinook". Now this knife does not look that impressive in a picture but when you see it, it's one of those things you gotta have. I'm not sure if CPM440V is the best defense knife steel but this Chinook has a lot of defense potential. Went back and someone already bought it . Now I can't sleep until I get one.
Hi Northwind. Welcome tothe Spyderco forum.
Knife Steels are currently undergoing a remarkable "evolution" and have been for the past 15 yers or so.
As we get, test and learn about new steels on a daily basis, it is sure to continue.
Spyderco was one fo the first companies (if not the first) to put the steel for each blade on the blade. We also made charts showing composition of steels. This new awareness of steel helps the ELU determine quality in a way not possible before.
The quest for the "Perfect" steel is never ending. But also keep in mind that new steels have no history. Once some history is established, advantages and drawbacks can be weighed and another "new" steel may devep.
Spyderco was the first to use ATS-34 in a US made production knife (Bob Terzuola C15). We were the first to use CPM steels in production (Miliratary) the first to use VG-10 in production (Moran), the first to use ATS-55 (Goddard FRN), etc. Many new steels since we began making knives in 1981.
IMO, The knife is the "edge". The blade is there to support the edge. The handle is there to control the edge. The steels that we work with and develop are an effort to find that "perfect steel" or "non steel" (cobalt, Titan, etc.)
Let's look at this again in 5 years and I'm sure you'll see more new answers.
for us, CPM has proven to be a very good steel. Superior in edge holding and toughness even at lower rockwells (55/56). We're learning that heat treat is very critical to the performance of the steel.
hope that helps.
sal
Knife Steels are currently undergoing a remarkable "evolution" and have been for the past 15 yers or so.
As we get, test and learn about new steels on a daily basis, it is sure to continue.
Spyderco was one fo the first companies (if not the first) to put the steel for each blade on the blade. We also made charts showing composition of steels. This new awareness of steel helps the ELU determine quality in a way not possible before.
The quest for the "Perfect" steel is never ending. But also keep in mind that new steels have no history. Once some history is established, advantages and drawbacks can be weighed and another "new" steel may devep.
Spyderco was the first to use ATS-34 in a US made production knife (Bob Terzuola C15). We were the first to use CPM steels in production (Miliratary) the first to use VG-10 in production (Moran), the first to use ATS-55 (Goddard FRN), etc. Many new steels since we began making knives in 1981.
IMO, The knife is the "edge". The blade is there to support the edge. The handle is there to control the edge. The steels that we work with and develop are an effort to find that "perfect steel" or "non steel" (cobalt, Titan, etc.)
Let's look at this again in 5 years and I'm sure you'll see more new answers.
for us, CPM has proven to be a very good steel. Superior in edge holding and toughness even at lower rockwells (55/56). We're learning that heat treat is very critical to the performance of the steel.
hope that helps.
sal
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Joe Talmadge
- Member
- Posts: 1077
- Joined: Fri Sep 24, 2004 10:33 am
For defensive use, I sometimes think blade steel is the least important factor. Edge holding barely matters, because a few swipes and it's all over. Toughness matters some, but it's unlikely the toughness will be tested anywhere near as much as in a light chopper. Strength matters some, but it's unlikely that in defensive use I'll need it to be as strong as I will for chopping or even light prying.
As a result, it's almost inconceiveable to me that a defensive knife that has the right blade geometry and ergonomics would be a bad choice if it had *any* high quality stainless steel that's been well heat-treated. Look for blade geometry and ergonomics, and buy the knife that works best if the steel works for you.
Now, because most knives bought for defensive use are really used only for utility use, the steel does become more important. To make the right choice for you, you'll probably want to describe your utility uses.
Other than that, for pure defensive use, I want something tough enough not to chip out badly if the edge hits bone or brick, strong enough not to bend sharply (and certainly not break) if it has to be levered out from somewhere it's stuck. 440V at 55 Rc should be reasonably tough, it won't be the strongest steel in the world but will be easily strong enough, especially in such a short blade as on the Chinook, IMO. The edge holding will be excellent, but I feel that's a don't-care for defensive use.
Joe
As a result, it's almost inconceiveable to me that a defensive knife that has the right blade geometry and ergonomics would be a bad choice if it had *any* high quality stainless steel that's been well heat-treated. Look for blade geometry and ergonomics, and buy the knife that works best if the steel works for you.
Now, because most knives bought for defensive use are really used only for utility use, the steel does become more important. To make the right choice for you, you'll probably want to describe your utility uses.
Other than that, for pure defensive use, I want something tough enough not to chip out badly if the edge hits bone or brick, strong enough not to bend sharply (and certainly not break) if it has to be levered out from somewhere it's stuck. 440V at 55 Rc should be reasonably tough, it won't be the strongest steel in the world but will be easily strong enough, especially in such a short blade as on the Chinook, IMO. The edge holding will be excellent, but I feel that's a don't-care for defensive use.
Joe
Speaking of new knife steels, I'm curious as to why you used ATS 34 in one of your newest knives, the Centofante Vesuvius. The design is great for everyday use, and I really like the compression lock. I just wish you had used CPM 440V, which is my preference by far. It certainly takes and holds an edge a lot better than ATS 34.
Hi GrDaniel. Welcome to the Spyderco forum.
Pretty much two reasons; 1) The Vesuvius had to meet a price point. CPM is far more expensive than ATS. We don't think that we could keep the MSRP under $100 with the Compression lock and CPM. 2nd) We have sufficient inventory of ATS to make quite a few pieces. A special order of this thickness CPM would take many months and add to steel inventory.
In the "higher line" FRN market, ATS ranks quite high. It's usually just the "steel snobs" that would like the exotic steel and they are a much smaller group.
Benchmades new FRN model is GIN-1, Cold Steel is using AUS-8, many companies are using 420 for the blades (Spyderco thinks 420 makes a good lock material or handle material).
We are offering an ATS FRN model for under $100 MSRP. Based on the competition, IMO, we are offering very good value for the dollar spent. Good value in steel, mfg quality, uniqueness, design and overall performance.
Hope that helps.
sal
Pretty much two reasons; 1) The Vesuvius had to meet a price point. CPM is far more expensive than ATS. We don't think that we could keep the MSRP under $100 with the Compression lock and CPM. 2nd) We have sufficient inventory of ATS to make quite a few pieces. A special order of this thickness CPM would take many months and add to steel inventory.
In the "higher line" FRN market, ATS ranks quite high. It's usually just the "steel snobs" that would like the exotic steel and they are a much smaller group.
Benchmades new FRN model is GIN-1, Cold Steel is using AUS-8, many companies are using 420 for the blades (Spyderco thinks 420 makes a good lock material or handle material).
We are offering an ATS FRN model for under $100 MSRP. Based on the competition, IMO, we are offering very good value for the dollar spent. Good value in steel, mfg quality, uniqueness, design and overall performance.
Hope that helps.
sal