Proxy for sharpness
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Proxy for sharpness
What “test” do you do to confirm an acceptable level of sharpness? Push cutting magazine paper? Push cutting newspaper? Shaving? Hair whittling? There are many ways to confirm varying degrees of sharpness, so what do you call “sharp enough” to suit you?
- Cheddarnut
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Re: Proxy for sharpness
I stop sharpening when i hear the edge start singing the first of three words in the title of one of ZZ Tops greatest hits.
Re: Proxy for sharpness
A BESS score under 150 is good enough for most of my uses.
If I'm not using the BESS tester I see if the edge can split one of my beard hairs or cleanly slice through paper, thin plastic, or cardboard. Shaving a little arm hair works too.
If I'm not using the BESS tester I see if the edge can split one of my beard hairs or cleanly slice through paper, thin plastic, or cardboard. Shaving a little arm hair works too.
-Matt a.k.a. Lo_Que, loadedquestions135 I ❤ The P'KAL
"The world of edges has a small doorway in, but opens into a cavern that is both wide and deep." -sal
"The world of edges has a small doorway in, but opens into a cavern that is both wide and deep." -sal
"Ghost hunters scope the edge." -sal
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Re: Proxy for sharpness
Have you been able to figure out what a sub-150 Bess score translates to in other measures? For example, does a sub 150 Bess score translate to hair whittling, etc?
Re: Proxy for sharpness
150 - 200 is where a utility razor would fall. 137 will most definitely shave and split a hair. I'd call that hair splitting not whittling. It would need to be sharper for that.
A shaving double sided razor would be around 50 BESS
A shaving double sided razor would be around 50 BESS
-Matt a.k.a. Lo_Que, loadedquestions135 I ❤ The P'KAL
"The world of edges has a small doorway in, but opens into a cavern that is both wide and deep." -sal
"The world of edges has a small doorway in, but opens into a cavern that is both wide and deep." -sal
"Ghost hunters scope the edge." -sal
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Re: Proxy for sharpness
I call it good when I can wave cut magazine paper or receipt paper. This level will definitely shave hair. Where would that fall on the Bess?
Re: Proxy for sharpness
When serrations pluck hair off my arm without touching skin, and/or when they'll push cut phone book paper at 90 degrees further than 1 inch away from where I'm holding it. That last bit is more important than it sounds, it takes a sharper edge to push cut further from your fingers and at 90 degrees to the paper than it does if you cut at an angle going away from your fingers because the paper is more flimsy and more likely to fold than cut if the edge isn't sharp enough.
All SE all the time since 2017
~David
~David
Re: Proxy for sharpness
I have learned some unique tests I've learned over the years to determine sharpness when I'm sharpening any of my Spyderco models. I've found that using cigarette rolling papers or the old Onion Skin typing paper ( extremely flimsy, thin paper) that really show you when trying to determine when you have attained a really superior performing edge.Soanso McMasters wrote: ↑Wed May 25, 2022 12:03 amWhat “test” do you do to confirm an acceptable level of sharpness? Push cutting magazine paper? Push cutting newspaper? Shaving? Hair whittling? There are many ways to confirm varying degrees of sharpness, so what do you call “sharp enough” to suit you?
Just push cutting most any type of paper will usually show you when you have a reasonably good edge for most cutting jobs. But when you can float through cigarette rolling papers or Onion Skin typing paper then you know you've gotten it extremely sharp. Well it works for me anyway.
I am going to continue to watch this thread with intense curiosity to see how most of you determine ultimate sharpness. This is a very interesting subject for me.
Re: Proxy for sharpness
If I touch the edge with the pad of my thumb and it sticks to it a bit, I know I'm good to go. That or popping arm airs without the blade touching my skin also works.
Funny when I first got interested in the sharpening aspect of the hobby, an extremely rough scrape shave that looked like rug burn on my arm would suffice, as long as it shaved at least a couple hairs!
Can't stress practice, patience and light pressure enough when it comes to learning. Those 3 steps will get you a long way.
Funny when I first got interested in the sharpening aspect of the hobby, an extremely rough scrape shave that looked like rug burn on my arm would suffice, as long as it shaved at least a couple hairs!
Can't stress practice, patience and light pressure enough when it comes to learning. Those 3 steps will get you a long way.
15 's in 10 different steels
1 - Bradford Guardian 3 / Vanadis 4E Wharnie
1 - Monterey Bay Knives Slayback Flipper / ZDP 189
1 - CRK Small Sebenza 31/Macassar Ebony Inlays
1 - CRK Large Inkosi Insingo/ Black Micarta Inlays
1 - CRK Small Sebenza 31 Insingo/Magnacut
-Rick
1 - Bradford Guardian 3 / Vanadis 4E Wharnie
1 - Monterey Bay Knives Slayback Flipper / ZDP 189
1 - CRK Small Sebenza 31/Macassar Ebony Inlays
1 - CRK Large Inkosi Insingo/ Black Micarta Inlays
1 - CRK Small Sebenza 31 Insingo/Magnacut
-Rick
Re: Proxy for sharpness
This was my method growing up, until I learned that a burr can give you a similar feeling. I'm saying this more for less experienced people who may be reading this than for you specifically. I probably spent the first half of my life unknowingly leaving burrs and thinking I had a sharp edge, only for the edge to practically wipe off in the first few cuts. Then I blamed the steel... we've all seen this vicious circle.
All SE all the time since 2017
~David
~David
Re: Proxy for sharpness
Good point David. I'm pretty sure I was there at one point too, once I thought I edge retention of various steels was exactly the same after use for a day...until I took a closer look with a loop and realized I wasn't cleaning the apex off the stones. I never blamed the stones, just the science that there was actually a difference in all these steels haha.Evil D wrote: ↑Wed May 25, 2022 7:15 am
This was my method growing up, until I learned that a burr can give you a similar feeling. I'm saying this more for less experienced people who may be reading this than for you specifically. I probably spent the first half of my life unknowingly leaving burrs and thinking I had a sharp edge, only for the edge to practically wipe off in the first few cuts. Then I blamed the steel... we've all seen this vicious circle.
We live and learn around here, but like you said...when trying to figure it out, it's a vicious and time consuming cycle! But the rewards are well worth it.
15 's in 10 different steels
1 - Bradford Guardian 3 / Vanadis 4E Wharnie
1 - Monterey Bay Knives Slayback Flipper / ZDP 189
1 - CRK Small Sebenza 31/Macassar Ebony Inlays
1 - CRK Large Inkosi Insingo/ Black Micarta Inlays
1 - CRK Small Sebenza 31 Insingo/Magnacut
-Rick
1 - Bradford Guardian 3 / Vanadis 4E Wharnie
1 - Monterey Bay Knives Slayback Flipper / ZDP 189
1 - CRK Small Sebenza 31/Macassar Ebony Inlays
1 - CRK Large Inkosi Insingo/ Black Micarta Inlays
1 - CRK Small Sebenza 31 Insingo/Magnacut
-Rick
Re: Proxy for sharpness
Whittling hair is sufficient for me.
Re: Proxy for sharpness
My proxy is all about the burr. If I haven’t raised a burr, my blade is sharp.
To detect a burr, I slowly press the edge of my thumbnail outward from the backbevel’s shoulder to the apex. If I get resistance, I’ve got a burr. If I don’t, I continue sampling along the same side of the blade, then do the opposite side in the same way.
To avoid a burr, listen carefully to the late Cliff Stamp’s guidance to sharpening (https://youtu.be/OPGGo3W15HQ). Sometimes I forget…
To detect a burr, I slowly press the edge of my thumbnail outward from the backbevel’s shoulder to the apex. If I get resistance, I’ve got a burr. If I don’t, I continue sampling along the same side of the blade, then do the opposite side in the same way.
To avoid a burr, listen carefully to the late Cliff Stamp’s guidance to sharpening (https://youtu.be/OPGGo3W15HQ). Sometimes I forget…
-Marc (pocketing a VG10 JD Smith sprint today)
“When science changes its opinion, it didn’t lie to you. It learned more.”
“When science changes its opinion, it didn’t lie to you. It learned more.”
- nonstainless
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Re: Proxy for sharpness
That's the level of sharpness I end up at usually. Unscientific but quick and simple
Take heed therefore that the light which is in thee be not darkness. L11:35
- cabfrank
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Re: Proxy for sharpness
I find it amazing how easy people who are really good at sharpening make it look. I guess that comes with the practice part Rick mentioned.
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Re: Proxy for sharpness
After I finish up I like to whittle on a stick for awhile, making sure I use every part of the edge. After that I test sharpness again and figure if it is as sharp as when I finished that I’ve gotten the burr. It’s been working for me thusly, but does this seem sufficient to test for a burr? Or I should say, could a really persistent burr still hold on that long and not be detectable with a light and by finger, and still be very sharp after whittling?TkoK83Spy wrote: ↑Wed May 25, 2022 7:26 amGood point David. I'm pretty sure I was there at one point too, once I thought I edge retention of various steels was exactly the same after use for a day...until I took a closer look with a loop and realized I wasn't cleaning the apex off the stones. I never blamed the stones, just the science that there was actually a difference in all these steels haha.Evil D wrote: ↑Wed May 25, 2022 7:15 am
This was my method growing up, until I learned that a burr can give you a similar feeling. I'm saying this more for less experienced people who may be reading this than for you specifically. I probably spent the first half of my life unknowingly leaving burrs and thinking I had a sharp edge, only for the edge to practically wipe off in the first few cuts. Then I blamed the steel... we've all seen this vicious circle.
We live and learn around here, but like you said...when trying to figure it out, it's a vicious and time consuming cycle! But the rewards are well worth it.
Re: Proxy for sharpness
Soanso McMasters wrote: ↑Wed May 25, 2022 2:08 pmAfter I finish up I like to whittle on a stick for awhile, making sure I use every part of the edge. After that I test sharpness again and figure if it is as sharp as when I finished that I’ve gotten the burr. It’s been working for me thusly, but does this seem sufficient to test for a burr? Or I should say, could a really persistent burr still hold on that long and not be detectable with a light and by finger, and still be very sharp after whittling?
You'd know if you had a burr because the edge retention would drop like a rock, and depending on what steel you're dealing with it may even result in fracturing that's so bad it may seem harder to resharpen. This is where we see steels being called "brittle" when it's really just a nasty jagged burr breaking off.
All SE all the time since 2017
~David
~David
Re: Proxy for sharpness
Such was my view of S30V when I first started here.Evil D wrote: ↑Wed May 25, 2022 2:14 pmSoanso McMasters wrote: ↑Wed May 25, 2022 2:08 pmAfter I finish up I like to whittle on a stick for awhile, making sure I use every part of the edge. After that I test sharpness again and figure if it is as sharp as when I finished that I’ve gotten the burr. It’s been working for me thusly, but does this seem sufficient to test for a burr? Or I should say, could a really persistent burr still hold on that long and not be detectable with a light and by finger, and still be very sharp after whittling?
You'd know if you had a burr because the edge retention would drop like a rock, and depending on what steel you're dealing with it may even result in fracturing that's so bad it may seem harder to resharpen. This is where we see steels being called "brittle" when it's really just a nasty jagged burr breaking off.
-Marc (pocketing a VG10 JD Smith sprint today)
“When science changes its opinion, it didn’t lie to you. It learned more.”
“When science changes its opinion, it didn’t lie to you. It learned more.”
Re: Proxy for sharpness
Slicing newspaper against the grain. This method also kind of detects burrs and possible microchips. I double check for a burr by stropping. It will leave marks.
Never understood the need for hair popping or hair whittling sharp though. What I use my knives for (edc, box cutting, food prep and bushcraft) a very sharp edge won’t last long anyway.
Never understood the need for hair popping or hair whittling sharp though. What I use my knives for (edc, box cutting, food prep and bushcraft) a very sharp edge won’t last long anyway.
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Re: Proxy for sharpness
Slicing mylar packaging seems to be an excellent test for a burr. One slice through a Clif bar wrapper will instantly fold over any bur that I've left on an edge.
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