Suggestions for a non-flexible serrated kitchen knife

[Eli Chaps]

A chef's knife will handle the majority of bread but it will not handle all bread. That's why I advocate not spending much on a bread knife as it will only be needed occasionally.

I would not call the edge on this knife overly toothy. Lightly finished on an 8k stone.

[JRinFL]

Remember, SG said stale bread. I've had stale sourdough bread that seemed as hard as carving wood. Of course, I learned 10-15 seconds in the microwave* would soften it enough so that my existing knives would cut it. But I don't want to talk her out of a cool new kitchen knife!



* I know, ick. But, it was better than tossing the stale bread.

[SG89]

I think I will just use my existing serrated victorinox serrated paring knife instead of buying a new knife. https://www.swissarmy.com/us/en/Product ... .7836.L119
I really only use a serrated knife for slicing bread and it’s not too often, a few times a year. I love this knife and it has less flex than the spydie. The shorter blade probably has something to do with that. I had the spyderco bread knife when it was released a few years ago and i did not care for it.

[Araignee]

Shun aren't bad, and if you like them, great, but you can definitely get much more performance in the same price range.

Could you please provide alternative brand names worth looking into ?

[Eli Chaps]

Shun aren't bad, and if you like them, great, but you can definitely get much more performance in the same price range.

Could you please provide alternative brand names worth looking into ?

As I use plain edge knives for 95+% of my kitchen duties, to include all but the most stubborn bread crusts, I honestly just recommend something like a Mercer bread knife. Sturdy, inexpensive and they work. Ugly as sin but then I honestly feel that way about most all serrated knives.

If you're curious about Shun plain edge alternatives, that I can go deeper into. :)

[Araignee]

As I use plain edge knives for 95+% of my kitchen duties, to include all but the most stubborn bread crusts, I honestly just recommend something like a Mercer bread knife. Sturdy, inexpensive and they work. Ugly as sin but then I honestly feel that way about most all serrated knives.

If you're curious about Shun plain edge alternatives, that I can go deeper into. :)

I looked up that brand and indeed it's a very cheap knife, plenty of bang for the bucks no doubt.

I'm in the market for a small santoku, and the Kai/Shun seem pretty popular, so your conversation interested me.
Also been looking at Global, Wüsthof, Zwilling, Samura, etc.
I'd be happy to hear your views on Shun competitors

[Eli Chaps]

As I use plain edge knives for 95+% of my kitchen duties, to include all but the most stubborn bread crusts, I honestly just recommend something like a Mercer bread knife. Sturdy, inexpensive and they work. Ugly as sin but then I honestly feel that way about most all serrated knives.

If you're curious about Shun plain edge alternatives, that I can go deeper into. :)

I looked up that brand and indeed it's a very cheap knife, plenty of bang for the bucks no doubt.

I'm in the market for a small santoku, and the Kai/Shun seem pretty popular, so your conversation interested me.
Also been looking at Global, Wüsthof, Zwilling, Samura, etc.
I'd be happy to hear your views on Shun competitors

Allow me to work a bit backyard on the brands you mentioned. As popular a they are, I feel strongly that you can do better.

Global have been far surpassed over the years and their steel is notoriously nasty sharpen. I also don't like their designs and feel they are handle heavy. They boomed because they were an early alternative to the German brands.

Wusthof and Zwilling are knives I've owned and used a lot and almost never recommend. They have a ton of models and lines so there's a lot of design variety however, they all tend to share the common theme of soft steel in relatively thick geometry. Many of them also suffer from overly curvy blades, heavy handles, and full bolsters that kill sharpening. I'd as soon drop down to something like a Victorinox/Fibrox at generally well less than half of these two. For me, I don't care if it is a Wusthof Ikon or Zwilling 5 star, these go into my beater category.

I don't know Samura first hand but looking them over they appear to be another, I would guess PRC made brand in the guise of Japan. May be wrong but feels that way. Understand that for many of these cheaper alternatives, "Damascus" is often just laser etching. Even in nicer brands it generally is just referring to the steel cladding if it is san mai. Be discerning. It's generally cosmetic. That doesn't mean bad (damascus or more accurately pattern welded doesn't add function), just that it isn't always well explained. Lots of soft AUS8, funky handles, and I'd bet thick grinds. I pass.

Shun can be more of a lightning rod than Wusthof and Henckels when criticizing them. It isn't that they are bad quality. They aren't. They are well made knives but that doesn't make them the best options in their price ranges. Shun are going to have somewhat thicker blade grinds and a thin hard strip of VG10. I don't hate VG10 and have a lot of it. But only in one kitchen knife and I'll not have anymore in that role. There's just so many better options in this application. Shuns are chippy and then their thicker overall grinds make thinning to restore geometry much more cumbersome. And again, I find many of them handle heavy or handles that are uncomfortable in a pinch grip and either overly curvy or just trying to be trendy.

Also, dimples and all that are nonsense. They do nothing and are a gimmick that only impede the longevity of your blade. If you want "dimples" that actually work, look to something like Glestain. Ugly as sin but they do what they say they will.

I don't know what you're looking to spend or what you desires and sharpening habits are so a recommendations is tough.

First, I'd strongly encourage joining up at Kitchen Knife Forums. They have a great knife questionnaire that will help folks give you ideas.

Off the top of my head, in the $100-200 range, I'm thinking Tsunehisa, Kanehide, Harukaze, Tojiro DP, Misono, Mac PRO, and Sakai Kikumori. Big fan of Tsunehisa.

To be fair, I've never tried a Spydie kitchen blade.

[Araignee]

Allow me to work a bit backyard on the brands you mentioned. As popular a they are, I feel strongly that you can do better.

(...)

Thank you very much for this useful, exhaustive feedback
Spent some time checking out the various brands and forum you mentionned, there's a lot of references to take in.
I'll just comment on a few specific points.

I'm surprised about your comment on Global's heavy handles. Their knives seem to have a reputation for lightness, and apparently they put sand in their handles because they're otherwise empty.
Perhaps you're very sensitive to handle weight in general ?

Samura is a funky brand... Japanese-sounding, based in Serbia but with manufacturing in China.
Not top notch but I saw a video of a chef reviewing a few models, which apparently were decent for the money.

About VG-10, after a quick look, it seems that a good part of Tsunehisa, Harukaze, Tojiro DP knives employ it.
It seems to be pretty standard for stainless knives in the 100-200 €/$ price range.
Also saw 18-8 steel and AUS-8 (notably on the Mac Pro).
For my usage they should be decent steels, but given you don't like them, I wonder what sort of steel you're left with... blue high carbon steel ?

[Eli Chaps]

Allow me to work a bit backyard on the brands you mentioned. As popular a they are, I feel strongly that you can do better.

(...)

Thank you very much for this useful, exhaustive feedback
Spent some time checking out the various brands and forum you mentionned, there's a lot of references to take in.
I'll just comment on a few specific points.

I'm surprised about your comment on Global's heavy handles. Their knives seem to have a reputation for lightness, and apparently they put sand in their handles because they're otherwise empty.
Perhaps you're very sensitive to handle weight in general ?

Samura is a funky brand... Japanese-sounding, based in Serbia but with manufacturing in China.
Not top notch but I saw a video of a chef reviewing a few models, which apparently were decent for the money.

About VG-10, after a quick look, it seems that a good part of Tsunehisa, Harukaze, Tojiro DP knives employ it.
It seems to be pretty standard for stainless knives in the 100-200 €/$ price range.
Also saw 18-8 steel and AUS-8 (notably on the Mac Pro).
For my usage they should be decent steels, but given you don't like them, I wonder what sort of steel you're left with... blue high carbon steel ?

You're quite welcome and I hope it was helpful. Don't get overwhelmed. It's easy to do but you don't have to.

No arguments that I'm a bit handle weight sensitive. I like my knives to be blade forward. For example, when I ordered my Shinichi Watanabe Pro 180 nakiri, I got it with an upgraded enju wood handle. That handle is denser and heavier but the blade is substantial enough that it works out fine. But, when I ordered his Pro 180 gyuto, I stuck with a simple ho wood handle as it is very light and won't upset the balance of the smaller of the smaller lighter blade. Ebony is a handle material that is beautiful but is dense and heavy. Just something to think about but many, many people don't care either way.

In the Tsunehisa and Harukaze actually come from the same maker. There's a few different brands under that umbrella at different levels of quality and styles. These are higher volume, more "production" oriented knives. But don't confuse that with sub-standard in anyway. They are well dialed in and excellent. They're just not considered as sexy as other smaller makers. They offer lines in Ginsan/G3/Silver 3/Gin 3 and I really like these offerings. Ginsan is a wonderful steel that sharpens like a carbon steel but is stainless. A little less edge retention compared to other steels but as a home cook, I don't put a lot of priority on edge retention.

Their VG10 and Tojiro's have a reputation for being more resilient than Shun's. Takamura has VG10 that is also well received along with their Chromax and R2.

The various SLD and SKD steels out there are often quite good as are many, many others and of course, a lot depends on the maker.

Now, the Aogami (Blue) steel family is probably my favorite carbon steel I've tried. I have #1, 2 and multiple AS. I like all three but I freaking love Aogami Super. Fear not the carbon.

A lot really depends on what you're after and how much you want to spend.

[Jurmuscle]

https://www.wusthof.com/collections/tas ... ead-knives
I use a Wusthof. Always worked good for me. I might trade it one day but I don't have a need too. I rarely use it to warrant buying a new one.

[Araignee]

You're quite welcome and I hope it was helpful. Don't get overwhelmed. It's easy to do but you don't have to.

(...)

Cheers, I took good note of all these additional info (including the various wooden handles' weight, this hadn't crossed my mind)