Sharpening the tips of blades?

[Doc Dan]

I have a problem. I can get the entire blade hair popping sharp...but not that last important 1/8 to 1/4 inch at the tip. I guess I'm not holding my mouth right, or standing on one leg, or something. Any tips to getting that part as sharp as the rest of the blade?

[Bloke]

Doc, it’s something I also sometimes struggle with on the SharpMaker and of late free hand sharpening. I have no issue with a guided system.

All I know for sure is, we need to keep the blade tangent to the stone at all times and depending on the blade shape and length of the knife it’s often easier said than done.

All said, I’ll be interested in hearing advice myself because personally I think the first 1/8” of any knife particularly a skinner or fillet knife is most critical and if not the sharpest part of the blade the knife is next to useless.

[Dee]

Doc,
Time to bust out the loupe and take a look-see. What platform are you using? SM? Freehand? I find that freehand sometimes takes a bit more lift to the butt of the handle at the end of the stroke (no wisecracks on this, Bloke) than we think in order to apex. = the loupe will reveal this. For SM it is tough to maintain an aggressive pressure at the end for fear of riding off the rod. I know we are supposed to let the stone do the work, but some pressure on the ceramic rods is always present. Sometimes I will short stroke on the SM to only catch the tip, using about 1/3 the length of the rod. This generally gets that tip in a much better condition. Also, tv watching while sharpening is a definite buzz kill.
Dee

[rabbitanarchy14]

I have the same issue with the sharpmaker, I just spend more time on just the tip and be very gentle. I do tip my blade down a lot more when I am doing the very tip.

[Evil D]

Are you holding your tongue out of your mouth just slightly? Biting your lower lip throughout the entire pass? Squinting enough?




I have this problem too with strong upswept blades. It's a reason I avoid them, aside from just not liking them in use. On some of my SE blades I do a trick where I hold my index finger just behind the last serration and I sharpen the PE portion by itself on the flat of the rod. This is especially helpful for me when I'm reprofiling and even more helpful for very long blades because that seems to be where I get the sloppiest with holding the blade at 90 throughout the entire stroke down the rod.

[Doc Dan]

Thanks, David. I think it is likely the eye squint. Hahaha!

I'll try the finger technique and see. It frustrates me to no end to have a really sharp knife and a dullish tip. That is the part that gets used the most and is the part I seem to find is thickest behind the edge from the factory, for some reason. I could be imagining it.

[bjz]

This is good…I always have the same issues when using the sharpmaker (sharp”keeper”?) vs my guided system.

Doc, may I suggest modifying the title of this thread a bit to better indicate that it addresses sharpening the end point “tips” rather than dealing with a more general “sharpening tips”, as in pointers, that might not garner as many hits? I almost passed over this one but have been trying to focus more on sharpening than acquisition lately.

Cheers and thanks for starting this topic

[olywa]

Never a problem with Wharnies, right? I have the same issue with the tip on blades with belly when using the Sharpmaker. However, I don't when freehanding on my benchstones as I do a better job of following the blade contour by lifting the handle at the end of the stroke. I just struggle trying to perform that equivalent action when using vertical strokes on the Sharpmaker rods.

[RustyIron]

It frustrates me to no end to have a really sharp knife and a dullish tip. That is the part that gets used the most

Hey, Dan. A couple things come to mind.

Oftentimes the tip gets sharpened at a more obtuse angle. This angle variation can come straight from the factory, or it can be created by users who are not paying close attention when sharpening. If you're sharpening the blade and matching the angle of the rest of the edge, you might be missing the tip.

You noted how the tip gets used the most. It's also the most delicate and vulnerable part of the blade. A lot of wear can occur at the tip, resulting in a "point" that is rounded upward. As was the case in the previous example, you might be following the rest of the edge and failing to apex the last little bit at the tip.

The solution, as you probably suspect, is to just keep sharpening until each side of the bevel comes to a point. Just focus on the last half inch or so. A lot of material might need to be removed, so it might take a while. You might want to go to the coarser stones to remove material more quickly.

Before anything, though, get yourself some kind of magnifier. Whenever there's some kind of problem, it's really helpful to be able to see what's going on. And using the magnifier on an edge that you thing is good, can reveal flaws that you can work on in the future.

[Doc Dan]

Thanks for the "tips" on sharpening, everyone. It is a real pain in the gluteus maximus to get tips sharp using a Sharpmaker. A guided system or stones are no problem. I can't find my stones. They are packed somewhere from our move. Maybe I need to try a flat diamond hand sharpener that I have around here, somewhere. I want to get the Sharpmaker to work on this, though, because it is so easy to use.

[bjz]

Thanks for the "tips" on sharpening, everyone. It is a real pain in the gluteus maximus to get tips sharp using a Sharpmaker. A guided system or stones are no problem. I can't find my stones. They are packed somewhere from our move. Maybe I need to try a flat diamond hand sharpener that I have around here, somewhere. I want to get the Sharpmaker to work on this, though, because it is so easy to use.

I know it’s not quite the same as an actual flat stone, but you could use that trick of flipping the SM base over and dropping one or both tri-stones in the slots to make a skinny flat stone and facilitate a similar technique?

[mark greenman]

Thanks for the "tips" on sharpening, everyone. It is a real pain in the gluteus maximus to get tips sharp using a Sharpmaker. A guided system or stones are no problem. I can't find my stones. They are packed somewhere from our move. Maybe I need to try a flat diamond hand sharpener that I have around here, somewhere. I want to get the Sharpmaker to work on this, though, because it is so easy to use.

I never had much luck with the Sharpmaker in this regard either.

However, the elliptical stones of the Gauntlet make sharpening the tip much easier; Its become my go to sharpener for that reason. Its a much more forgiving stone shape, and also easier to keep the tip from sliding off. All in all a much easier to use sharpening system.

I just wish spyderco would develop a new base for those amazing stones, that offered more angles, and more importantly, allowed for a compact and easier to transport system ala sharpmaker.

[Ramonade]

I'd have to weigh in with some forum members here. I do squint my eyes often, and maybe concentration can force one or two duckfaces out of me during a sharpening session.

For tips, I use stones of at least 1" wide. Otherwise it's hard to follow the curve of the blade correctly. On the sharpmaker, the field of vision is minimized due to our position, so you risk either to not bring the tip down enough, or too much.
If I want to sharpen the whole knife using only the sharpmaker, I do the same thing as Dee, focusing on the tip with back and forth passes on a smaller portion of the stone, on each stone.

[VashHash]

I would try using the sharpie method and see exactly where you're hitting the edge. I sharpen freehand but sometimes when I'm lowering an edge I'll use the sharpie to check myself.

[blues]

This short video by Lance Clinton shows a good way to address the tip on the Sharpmaker:

[Doc Dan]

This short video by Lance Clinton shows a good way to address the tip on the Sharpmaker:

Ah, that is some good stuff. Thanks.

[bdblue]

1. A blade like a PM2 has a continuous curve and it's easy enough to keep the edge oriented properly against the stones but you still have to be careful with it. When you get the point near the middle of the stones it's easy enough to tilt the stone so it isn't bearing uniformly along the edge.
2. If you use the point a lot it is likely duller than the rest of the edge and needs more strokes.
3. For blades that have a straight edge then are turned up at the end such as a Bradley 1 you take one kind of strokes for the majority of the edge then different strokes along the curved tip. With a guided system you can end up with the system trying to create different angles near the tip. Another issue I've found with some knives like this is that the tip is sharpened from the factory with a greater included angle so it takes a lot of work to get it reprofiled properly.

[JSumm]

1. A blade like a PM2 has a continuous curve and it's easy enough to keep the edge oriented properly against the stones but you still have to be careful with it. When you get the point near the middle of the stones it's easy enough to tilt the stone so it isn't bearing uniformly along the edge.
2. If you use the point a lot it is likely duller than the rest of the edge and needs more strokes.
3. For blades that have a straight edge then are turned up at the end such as a Bradley 1 you take one kind of strokes for the majority of the edge then different strokes along the curved tip. With a guided system you can end up with the system trying to create different angles near the tip. Another issue I've found with some knives like this is that the tip is sharpened from the factory with a greater included angle so it takes a lot of work to get it reprofiled properly.

I'm glad you said this because I feel like I spend a lot of time on the tip when reprofiling. Some are more exaggerated then others. The Caly 3.5 I recently acquired was maybe the most off. Looked like just a micro-bevel on the tip. Fortunately, ZDP-189 is not too terrible to sharpen.

[blues]

This short video by Lance Clinton shows a good way to address the tip on the Sharpmaker:

Ah, that is some good stuff. Thanks.

You're welcome. Hope it helps.

[TkoK83Spy]

That really is a very helpful video, I remember him posting that when I was first starting to really try and understand sharpening.

These days when struggling with the tip, I'll usually Sharpie the area that hasn't apexed and work on it freehand, checking it every few passes. If it needs more than that, I'll go all Michael Christy on it once I find the right angle.