Chaparral... Liner Lock?

[rabbitanarchy14]

Respectfully, I disagree with this line of thinking. Sal himself seemed to imply it was possible when he said it would "require all-new tooling." I'm just saying I think there might be enough demand to justify it, and it feels like that demand has grown since the original post in 2016.

The TRM Neutron is basically exactly the same thickness as the Chaparral, maybe an imperceptible smidge thicker. It's hard for me to imagine Nick Shabazz and so many of us would be as enthusiastic about the TRMs if they had back locks. It stands to reason, then, that a liner lock version of the Chaparral (the Chaparral 2?) might be commercially successful. Sal certainly knows better than I do, but it felt worth asking the question.

I'm a bit surprised by the pushback, to be honest, as my understanding was that the biggest knock on the Chaparral is the lock. I don't find it uncomfortable, but back locks just don't have that excitement factor for me. To be clear, I am a happy Chaparral owner, but I'd be even more excited about a liner lock version. Maybe I'm totally alone in my lack of enthusiasm for the back locks thoughts.

been waiting on more liner locks and knives that are not lockback. I started a thread and tried to get a mini manix, the backlock fanboys said no. dragonfly and chap would also be great in cbbl, liner, or compression, but you will NEVER get anyone here that is a backlock fan to back you up or help.
yes i have tried to suggest other lock types for other knives and the lockback lovers pushback is intense. you will never get a fair conversation here about lock types. the backlock lovers here are like harley or glock owners. they are the best ____ and there is no room for anything else or anyway to make it better.

[Wartstein]

...

been waiting on more liner locks and knives that are not lockback. dragonfly and chap would also be great in cbbl, liner, or compression, but you will NEVER get anyone here that is a backlock fan to back you up or help.
yes i have tried to suggest other lock types for other knives and the lockback lovers pushback is intense. you will never get a fair conversation here about lock types. the backlock lovers here are like harley or glock owners. they are the best ____ and there is no room for anything else or anyway to make it better.

You´ve been away for a while, so you might have missed that I - admittedly preferring the backlock overall - advocated a lot for more mid to high end linerlocks lately, so I am with you on that! Linerlock is probably the most convenient and safest in operation lock for me - at least when a knife has a choil.

Particularly in the Chap though I think a linerlock would probably not work to well technically - if one keeps the knives overall thinness: The linerlock (true also for the comp.lock) would just not get enough lock interface and generally space (the latter also being true for the CBBL).
Just for balancing things out: While imo the backlock makes very thin knives possible, on the flip side linerlock and comp.locks are king if one wants to give a knife with a given handle height the tallest blade possible (regardless if with or without a choil in the blade) - the backlock just by design is no match here.

Generally, and with all due respect: I see things a bit differently: When I first came to this forum I was actually surprised how many people insisted on that the comp.lock just has to be the best one can have, and almost got angry when reading that people might prefer liner- or backlock.
But especially surprising for me were all the myths about the backlock: Can´t be closed one handed easily (when there are several very convenient ways to do so), fingers can´t be kept out of the blade path while closing the knife (when this is no problem actually) and so on.
So, just for balance, I found it necessary sometimes to put things in perspective a bit - like in overall each lock type has its pros and cons, and it all really comes down to personal preference or what aspects one values more or less (for example: Maximum safety in pocket: Go backlock. "Fidget friendliness": Go comp.lock, and so on).

[Wartstein]

I love my stepped ti chapparal, it's probably my favorite spyderco. FRN is cool to keep it light and offer colors but I think the chapparal line should lean further into it gentlemans pocket knife inspiration and go for wood handles and other such materials that fit that sort of identity.

I see there was a run like this in the Kopa for eg. https://www.spyderco.com/catalog/detail ... o-Wood/171

as for steel variants a balanced stainless that is easy to "field sharpen" is a good fit, and XHP already does that.

"Lean further into its gentlemans pocket knife inspiration" is something the Chap should do indeed imo - it IS great for that application ... too

But, and I know I sound like a broken record:
The Chap is also the best very small (!), hard use outdoor folder I have - especially as a companion for a larger (fixed) blade.
You just can´t kill that thing with its extremely solid construction, and the thin, slicey blade does all the smaller outdoor tasks so well - while being robust enough.
Again, I´d really like to hear: WHAT exactly are the tasks that people, who call the Chap a "light duty folder" actually and realistically perform with their small folders, that the Chap blade could NOT take? Who actually KNOWS from experience that it can´t?
If I had the money I´d really like to gift ten Chap FRN to ten people and challenge them to test the knife hard... I think they´d be surprised what it can actually take.

[Bloke]

Old Gerber Parrish, liner lock, blade stock: 1.91mm.

Works beautifully!



Dear Mr Glesser, would you please arrange tooling for a liner lock Chapparral at your earliest convenience?

[Wartstein]

Old Gerber Parrish, liner lock, blade stock: 1.91mm.

Works beautifully!



Dear Mr Glesser, would you please arrange tooling for a liner lock Chapparral at your earliest convenience?

Very cool!

But, Alex, just out of interest: Would this also work with a HANDLE as thin as the Chaparrals (honest question)? My concern is not (only) the thin blade stock, but the Chap HANDLE is a lot thinner / slimmer than the handle of that Gerber - I am not sure if the linerlock would fit in the chap handle, and still have enough space to "move" ... ?

... And at some point I think a linerlock would be so flimsy and offer so little lock interface, that the Chap perhaps would really "just" be a "light duty" folder anymore - ?! While a backlock, just by design, is still strong enough even when lockbar and blade are very thin?

Just guesses, I am not an expert by any means

[rabbitanarchy14]

i see the liners on that gerber are much thicker than the chap.
i do agree with that. the chap does not need to be a backlock to keep its slimness, but i am not an engineer. I do feel there is a lack of 2.6-2.9" knives like the chap, calysp jr. in other lock types, but they are mostly lockback. why can we not get other locks in this size.

yes when i started there were alot of threads about how great the compression lock is but most of them went away. the backlock fanboys have always been and never left or let up. so everytime i see a new suggested lock or something i will always try to help keep it balanced, against the backlock fanboys. i do see you have been about the liner lock lately, i am still really wanting more cbbl in all sizes(lil native - para 3 and one without a choil like Dallara 3).

[Bloke]

Very cool!

But, Alex, just out of interest: Would this also work with a HANDLE as thin as the Chaparrals (honest question)?

Gernot ole mate, we’ve had people in space circling the plant for decades. Few things are impossible with clever engineering. The $64,000 question is “Who’s going to pay?”

Here’s a Deejo, with some “Funky Chicken” skeleton liner lock. Blade stock: 1.72mm



To answer your question, I reckon it’s certainly doable. The most pertinent question I feel is, to what avail? Will it make a time tested and obviously popular little knife much more betterer?

[Wartstein]

....

yes when i started there were alot of threads about how great the compression lock is but most of them went away. the backlock fanboys have always been and never left or let up. so everytime i see a new suggested lock or something i will always try to help keep it balanced, against the backlock fanboys. i do see you have been about the liner lock lately, i am still really wanting more cbbl in all sizes(lil native - para 3 and one without a choil like Dallara 3).

I am all for more linerlock Spydies in "over the budget" line models and really also for a lot more CBBLs! Totally with you!

And I am also not a "fan" of being a "fanboy" of anything, really! There are enough reasons for each locktype to be the preferred one of a individual person, none is "better" or "worse" genuinly, imo.

Just in my humble opinion the backlock is still the one though where I see the most misconceptions or myths. People (explicitly not meant towards you!) often just repeat what they heard, without ever trying to find out themselves - again "can´t be or can just awkwardly be closed one handed" or "fingers can´t be kept out of the blade path". Just not true, and this is what I like to point out.
Still, this does not mean at all that the backlock is "the best" objectively of course!

[Wartstein]

Very cool!

But, Alex, just out of interest: Would this also work with a HANDLE as thin as the Chaparrals (honest question)?

Gernot ole mate, we’ve had people in space circling the plant for decades. Few things are impossible with clever engineering. The $64,000 question is “Who’s going to pay?”

Here’s a Deejo, with some “Funky Chicken” skeleton liner lock. Blade stock: 1.72mm
..

To answer your question, I reckon it’s certainly doable. The most pertinent question I feel is, to what avail? Will it make a time tested and obviously popular little knife much more betterer?

Thanks, my friend, good points and cool knife !!

Just when looking at my Chap FRN, my totally layman-ish guess still is though: A Chap in the exact same thinness (blade, but especially handle - it is REALLY thin!!), but with a linerlock just could not be as solidly built as with a backlock - concerning structural integrity, flex of the handle and strength and reliability of the lockup - it probably would, with a linerlock, really drift a bit more towards that "lighter duty gents knife" (which would be ok of course, just different) - ?

Again, I have no prove or such and could be wrong very well!

But: With a frame lock, and BOTH sides of the handle metal (not only the side where the lock "bar" sits) - could be a different story - ?

[cjk]

....

I made the FRN version because I felt there was a market for a less expensive utility version. This also offers opportunity for colors, exclusive variations and who knows what else. I'm currently testing a serrated version, which is performing well.

sal

I´ve said already in my previous post: That´s great news!!

But may I ask: Any plans for kind-of-a Chap XL? So a chaparral-ish, thin 2mm ffg blade in perhaps a thin profile handle, but longer? In my humble opinion especially thinner, slicier blades get even better with a bit more cutting edge...?

I don´t know anything about marketing of course, but I could imagine that such a "Spyderco Superslicer" would find its buyers...

I love the idea of a longer, but not taller Chaparral. Don't enlarge it all directions, just make the existing handle and blade longer, maintain the choil and handle shape where the first two fingers and thumb grasp it.

Yes, a Chap XL or at least "chapp-ish" larger knife (main feature: 2mm ffg, but longer blade - ideally at least Endela-size) is probably the thing I´ve advocated for most on this forum.
See here viewtopic.php?f=2&t=85342 or here viewtopic.php?f=2&t=82492&p=1295580#p1295580 for example.

I may be wrong of course, but in my humble opinion this would be a great performer in pretty much any knife task and also sell well, if marketed smartly

Howdy Wartstein, I went and read the linked threads and I have to agree. I'm usually *not* someone who asks for the XL size of this and that, but this is something I am very much interested in. I find the Chaparral to be a great knife as is, but the handle is a bit short-ish for me if I'm not using the choil. I'm particularly fond of the titanium Chaparral versions, but I'd be really happy to have one in titanium finished like a Techno 2 or Spydiechef instead of all the fancy machine work on the Chaps. Even anodized aluminum handles (green please!) would really float my boat.

[Wartstein]

...

I love the idea of a longer, but not taller Chaparral. Don't enlarge it all directions, just make the existing handle and blade longer, maintain the choil and handle shape where the first two fingers and thumb grasp it.

Yes, a Chap XL or at least "chapp-ish" larger knife (main feature: 2mm ffg, but longer blade - ideally at least Endela-size) is probably the thing I´ve advocated for most on this forum.
See here viewtopic.php?f=2&t=85342 or here viewtopic.php?f=2&t=82492&p=1295580#p1295580 for example.

I may be wrong of course, but in my humble opinion this would be a great performer in pretty much any knife task and also sell well, if marketed smartly

Howdy Wartstein, I went and read the linked threads and I have to agree. I'm usually *not* someone who asks for the XL size of this and that, but this is something I am very much interested in. I find the Chaparral to be a great knife as is, but the handle is a bit short-ish for me if I'm not using the choil. I'm particularly fond of the titanium Chaparral versions, but I'd be really happy to have one in titanium finished like a Techno 2 or Spydiechef instead of all the fancy machine work on the Chaps. Even anodized aluminum handles (green please!) would really float my boat.

Thanks for supporting the "quest"

... Yes, you say it: I am also really not one who generally wants every model to come in small or XL - rather the opposite.

But the Chap is just different. I imagine a just longer, but otherwise similar version (concerning tallness and thickness of blade and handle) would make for a great, very versatile EDC. I am sure people would enjoy the extremely slim carry (easy to pass the hand by behind the knife in pocket), great ergos (at least for not too prolongued use, which actually is true for most EDC tasks) and also extremely good slicing performance. Both combined probably can´t be found exactly like that in other Spydies.

And imagine what a platform for "home made" superthin geometries this would be!

And actually I think many SAKs don´t have thicker, but sometimes longer blades than the Chap (I´d have to check to be sure though), same goes for Opinels. Would be great to have that in a high quality Spyderco.

[sal]

So, what about a longer "Chaparral", thin blade, Walker Linerlock, new design, new name. It would have to be a little thicker to include a nested lock. Mabybe a bit taller. Keep the thinner blade stock, full flat ground, different steel?

sal

[Ramonade]

Outch, got beat to the finish line !
I was gonna say that a new design based on the Chap would make everyone agree.
I personally would love that. I've recently had the pleasure to experiment Spyderco's linerlocks, especially the Military, GB2 and Polestar. A dedicated saucisson slicer would get my money for sure.

[Soanso McMasters]

So, what about a longer "Chaparral", thin blade, Walker Linerlock, new design, new name. It would have to be a little thicker to include a nested lock. Mabybe a bit taller. Keep the thinner blade stock, full flat ground, different steel?

sal

Yes!!!!!

[cjk]

So, what about a longer "Chaparral", thin blade, Walker Linerlock, new design, new name. It would have to be a little thicker to include a nested lock. Mabybe a bit taller. Keep the thinner blade stock, full flat ground, different steel?

sal

Please keep the back lock. Please as minimally taller as possible, just longer. XHP is great.

Despite my posting in this thread, I have no interest in a liner lock, but I do have a keen interest in a longer blade and longer handled knife based on the Chaparral.

Edit: Sorry if that sounded short or rude, that was not my intention.

[Wartstein]

Outch, got beat to the finish line !
I was gonna say that a new design based on the Chap would make everyone agree.
I personally would love that. I've recently had the pleasure to experiment Spyderco's linerlocks, especially the Military, GB2 and Polestar. A dedicated saucisson slicer would get my money for sure.

This.
As said many times: For me it does not matter much if it is an actual Chaparral XL or a new design, but keeping the main features of the Chap - first and foremost the thin, 2mm ffg blade stock!

[Wartstein]

So, what about a longer "Chaparral", thin blade, Walker Linerlock, new design, new name. It would have to be a little thicker to include a nested lock. Mabybe a bit taller. Keep the thinner blade stock, full flat ground, different steel?

sal

Hi Sal,

thanks for chiming in with that proposal, and it actually sounds great!!

Getting the performance of a 2mm ffg blade, but longer than in the Chap would be amazing, especially in a somewhat tougher steel, and a good linerlock is always so nice to have!

So YES, of course, and I do hope this will come to life!

(I have to be honest though: As amazing as your proposed model would certainly be, and as happy as I would be with a linerlock already: Like CJK I personally would like it even a tad more with a backlock in this particular case (!): - in order to keep the overall thinness and nice carry, as well as the extremely solid built and lock up, which make the Chap (FRN) actually a tough beater in the outdoors (besides being a great gents knife of course)

But again: I don´t mean to be "sassy" at all, a linerlock, longer 2mm ffg blade Spydie would be great to have too of course!)

[jkgoggins]

So, what about a longer "Chaparral", thin blade, Walker Linerlock, new design, new name. It would have to be a little thicker to include a nested lock. Mabybe a bit taller. Keep the thinner blade stock, full flat ground, different steel?

sal

I think that would be amazing! Personally I’d prefer if it was still sub 3 inches for legal reasons in my state, but I think this would be an amazing addition!

[elena86]

So, what about a longer "Chaparral", thin blade, Walker Linerlock, new design, new name. It would have to be a little thicker to include a nested lock. Mabybe a bit taller. Keep the thinner blade stock, full flat ground, different steel?

sal

Awesome !!! Stainless steel please(20CV would be great).

[JRinFL]

Call it the "Alpine" in reference to Wartstein?