A perspective on a fad in the knife world.

[gdwtvb]

I'm sorry if this is too out of topic but what is "fad" ? I rarely see terms (outside of technical terms) I don't understand !

Is it something like a trend, or fandom ?

Exactly, a "fad" is a trend or widespread enthusiasm for something, whether or not it has any real value.

Back on topic, as others have stated, the new trend is away from pocket bricks and towards thinner bladestock. Also as any youtuber knows, you must sound wise and that means you need to say something that needs to be improved, making the youtuber seem, and no doubt feel, smarter than the person or company that created the product. Calling for thinner blades is easy.

Personally, I love them both. Techno and Chaparall. Just different.

Grizz

[Blerv]

I don’t mind thin geometry. I have plenty of regrinds. You just use them differently.

Most Spyderco’s are performance designed for most people. That means factoring a steeper secondary bevel that most of us will slowly or quickly reset.

Before the FFG movement there were some scary sharp hollow grinds. The mid HG’s like the Cento 3/4 and Ayoob. A couple high hollows like the Walker. You could get some torsional strength and a sharp edge that maintains better as you use and sharpen it.

As for folders for food prep, I’m personally not a fan. Since Spyderco launched and expanded their great kitchen knives anyone can get an out of the box winner that won’t get cheese in its pivot.

[Airlsee]

Functional separating; and being genuinely amazed by a blade's effortless severing, are not the same thing.

I second the Takamura suggestion but either way, geometry cuts.

For 92% of the general public and 99% of this forum, the Shaman is overbuilt. To believe it is good in the kitchen says more about the proclaimer than the tool...

Sorry Kev, but this is a naive take and physics is not a fad...these are only my opinions of course, LOL!

[VooDooChild]

...To believe it is good in the kitchen says more about the proclaimer than the tool...

Haha. You havent been in my old roommates kitchen.

[GarageBoy]

I think this is like car enthusiasts argue that sedans and wagons are better than CUVs (better driving dynamics), but consumers don't care because they want a CUV (sit higher, feel more "rugged" etc)

Knife nerds want dedicated tools that do their one job very well. Your average Joe uses a knife like a "multi tool" - scraping things, prying things apart, poking things with the tip and other uses which will send knife nerds crying abuse - hence the popularity of thicker blades and tips

[VooDooChild]

Also it needs to be pointed out that thickness is only one of several factors that come into play in determining what a blade is both capable of and good at.

[Airlsee]

Spine thickness does not equate to geometry.

Geometry incorporates everything (entire grind) from apex to spine and it certainly is not the only factor.

Modern metallurgy absolutely makes a difference in performance, but the fact that families are able to use "dull knives" in the kitchen for generations...?

Geometry.

[Kevinim82]

Functional separating; and being genuinely amazed by a blade's effortless severing, are not the same thing.

I second the Takamura suggestion but either way, geometry cuts.

For 92% of the general public and 99% of this forum, the Shaman is overbuilt. To believe it is good in the kitchen says more about the proclaimer than the tool...

Sorry Kev, but this is a naive take and physics is not a fad...these are only my opinions of course, LOL!

Well a fake beer greetings to you Airslee, it’s what’s in the fridge, so it’s what you get.

I ask/asked the reader to look beyond buzz words. The buzz word/words I have heard for a while “thinner blade stock, and thinner behind the edge.”

I’ve just had 3 lunch dates with the Shaman, and he’s a guy I’d share my salami with… in the food sense strictly speaking!

I’m cutting all types of things all types of ways. And I gotta say, I own kitchen knives and thin pocket knives, but I am having a fun time cutting up stuff with the Shaman. I would have bought this knife sooner if I just bought what I wanted, and not listened to the YouTube experts. I question them and the fancy cheese I buy questions them too.

[Airlsee]

Have you picked up any fully convexed blades yet? If you want surprising performance from thicker blades, they are fantastic!

I understand it's just a conversation conveying our experiences, but you knew "fad" was provocative and you're an admitted click-bait connoisseur...LOL!

[VooDooChild]

Meh.
You can still get an almost thin tomato/onion slice with a hair popping prybar/hatchet that has an amazing edge.
Youre not going to pull that off with a 2mm thick piece of bar stock with no edge.

Of course this is the debate itself. A super thin wire has no edge and can pull it off. Theres more to it than just "thickness".

[Airlsee]

There's already a word for it, and it's geometry...from apex to spine.

I don't feel prepared to die on this hill, yet here I am... .

Geometry encompasses everything incorporated in physical matter separation and can't be overestimated...

Materials and force matter as well, but the argument here was that geometry is a buzzword and a fad.

It is not, in my opinion.

Saying that geometry & physics are overrated in knives is the same as saying geometry & physics are overrated in aeronautics. It's nonsensical.

My point of view anyhow...


*ETA: I hope these posts come off as opinionated or passionate but not spicy...no offense intended anywhere and I appreciate the discussion!

[Wartstein]

Also it needs to be pointed out that thickness is only one of several factors that come into play in determining what a blade is both capable of and good at.

You are right of course, but I think this fact actually does got pointed out frequently anyway. I do that in almost every post about blade stock thickness for example.

The point is: When it comes to pure cutting performance:
- Why make this one factor "blade stock thickness", that can realistically npt really be changed by the end user, less "cutting friendly" than it could be?
- All other factors being equal: A 2mm blade just will cut better than a 3.7 mm blade in almost any folder task, and at least in a small folder (like the Chap) hold up to all the - even harder - tasks people use their folders for in reality.
Same goes for 2.5 or 3.0 mm in large folders.

Just what I found of course, but my Spydies do get used pretty "hard"

[Wartstein]

.....

Knife nerds want dedicated tools that do their one job very well. Your average Joe uses a knife like a "multi tool" - scraping things, prying things apart, poking things with the tip and other uses which will send knife nerds crying abuse - hence the popularity of thicker blades and tips

- I guess I AM a knife nerd, but then I also guess I do use my folders lke "average Joe" at least occasionally
Scraping and poking things anyway, but I also don´t hesitate prying (apart) things with the Spydie of the day in my pocket if this comes in handy - of course I know the limits a folder blade, - handle, - pivot have in that regard.

- I always and clearly distinguish between thicker/stronger BLADES (as a whole) and and thicker/stronger TIPS:

As said before:

I personally am convinced that a 2mm shorter and 2.5, at max 3 mm longer ffg blade can take everything that the vast majority of people use their folders for - and again to all:

- WHAT are the tasks that you actually and in reality DO use your Spydies for that would break a Chaparral or Endura ffg BLADE? (not talking about the very tip here, I´ll get to that right now)
- And IF there are such tasks: Do you KNOW by experience they´d be too much for a Chap or Endura ffg blade, or just assume that?

Now the very tip is a different story: The tip is the part of the blade that actually can snap in my experience (not a big deal though, since one can create a new and most times then anyway stronger tip)

BUT: This does not speak at all against thinner blade stock: Pretty easy to give a thinner blade still a stronger / reinforced tip, right?
The Endura/Delica do so by that slight drop of the spine towards the tip
The Chaps tip is a bit stronger due to the Leaf Shape of the blade
And there are more options too strengthen a tip a bit.

So, conclusion: Just for me and in my use the combo of thin(ner) stock, but a bit stronger, but still pointy enough tip is perfect
The Endura does that. The Salt 2 does that (i really like the sheepsfooty tip of the ffg Salt 2 SE - cause in SE tips get more pointy and fragile anyway due to the chisel grind)

What I like a bit less: Thick stock (especially in small folders), but rather fine tips - why? The thick stock is not necessary for strength anyway imo, but in many tasks one could not even make use of that "stronger" blade, cause the tip would snap...

Even did a thread about this very topic once - see here: viewtopic.php?t=87156

[Wartstein]

......

Dear Wart, I am going to point you in a direction, I promise you it is a dark dark rabbit hole.

https://m.youtube.com/c/AdvancedKnifeBro

Above is my favorite YouTube knife reviewer. He doesn’t take himself seriously and his signature line is to baton with said pocket knife. The guy is just entertaining. He makes a joke out of the seriousness of our hobbie.

I completely agree with you about the Chap and it doing what most of us use a pocket knife for.

Please watch the older videos first. He is writing gold.

Hey Kevin,

thanks for the link, I actually never watched AdvancedKnifeBro (I generally don´t watch many knife vids, and if so more occasionally as "background noise" while doing something else or just the parts where I can see a Spydie I don´t have, perhaps compared in size to other models) - I´ll make sure to give him a try!!

[Evil D]

Functional separating; and being genuinely amazed by a blade's effortless severing, are not the same thing.

I second the Takamura suggestion but either way, geometry cuts.

For 92% of the general public and 99% of this forum, the Shaman is overbuilt. To believe it is good in the kitchen says more about the proclaimer than the tool...

Sorry Kev, but this is a naive take and physics is not a fad...these are only my opinions of course, LOL!

Without trying to argue or insult anyone, I would say this isn't even an opinion, it's science. Geometry does indeed cut, if all other things are equal.

I have a couple regrind knives and while sharpening one of them I got to a point where I completely destressed the edge (as in, ran the edge along the brown rods to completely blut and remove the edge) and I got curious about how it would cut cardboard while being that dull, and it still cut well enough to use if you had nothing else. Like you said there's a huge difference between something working well enough and being satisfied with how well it works, and then something else working even better. There's nothing wrong with anyone being satisfied with a Shaman, but that doesn't mean it wouldn't perform even better if the blade stock was half as thick and the behind the edge thickness was half as thick. There's just no getting around the fact that a thinner blade and thinner edge and blade geometry are going to slice better, it's literally pushing a wedge through material and the smaller that wedge is, the easier it is to move it through the material. Once we start adding other elements to the argument like strength and beater-ability and whether or not Spyderco needs to compensate for nuckle draggers who use their knives as crowbars, we're just looking for ways to win a debate instead of focusing on the real facts.

[T.J.]

I’ve never had a problem cutting anything with any knife as long as it is sharp, regardless of steel or blade stock thickness. Use a knife like a knife, and you’ll be fine. Just my humble opinion.

[TkoK83Spy]

I’ve never had a problem cutting anything with any knife as long as it is sharp, regardless of steel or blade stock thickness. Use a knife like a knife, and you’ll be fine. Just my humble opinion.

I agree. If it's sharp, it's going to cut. I understand certain applications and things cut require thinner or thicker stocks, but in general...you SHOULD be fine as long as it's sharp.

[T.J.]

I’ve never had a problem cutting anything with any knife as long as it is sharp, regardless of steel or blade stock thickness. Use a knife like a knife, and you’ll be fine. Just my humble opinion.

I agree. If it's sharp, it's going to cut. I understand certain applications and things cut require thinner or thicker stocks, but in general...you SHOULD be fine as long as it's sharp.

Will some knives do better at certain tasks than others? Absolutely. But that wouldn’t prevent you from completing your cutting task with a “lesser suited”knife.

[Airlsee]

Hahaha! The assertion was that the Shaman performed well in the kitchen and that Geometry was over-hyped...

That's asinine, and we all like sharp edges...

[Airlsee]

Don't pick the losing side just because it's the closest...

Geometry does cut, and if I need to elaborate, please let me know.