Handle foreward Native 5

[Josh Crutchley]

Ok so I smoothed out the handle to match the N5 more.

[Woodpuppy]

It’s starting to remind me of a Lum folder.

[Cl1ff]

Looks like a Shaman!

Sal has mentioned a non choil Shaman design.

This design is also surprisingly similar to a couple sketches I've done myself, only smaller than what I have in mind.

Yeah it’s pretty similar to some things I’ve sketched as well, but I tend to not spend much time on those because they’re too far within the range of someone else’s design, in this case Sal’s native/rockjumper.

I think many of Spyderco’s innovations are perfect for my knife preferences and the ultimate in terms of function, so many of my own designs already intentionally borrow heavily from, and are undoubtedly subconsciously influenced by, Sal and Eric’s designs. I’ve got to draw the line somewhere and give them space.

Not to imply the designs shared in this thread are from a bad place or anything at all like that! It’s clearly just conceptualizing what a handle-forward native may be desired to look like and is probably a useful conversation regarding handle preferences in general.
I’m envious of some of the skills shown here and it takes a lot to actually share something you’ve created with other people.

Forgot to add that I would absolutely buy that latest version of the design posted a couple posts above mine!

[Josh Crutchley]

Yeah it’s pretty similar to some things I’ve sketched as well, but I tend to not spend much time on those because they’re too far within the range of someone else’s design, in this case Sal’s native/rockjumper.

I think many of Spyderco’s innovations are perfect for my knife preferences and the ultimate in terms of function, so many of my own designs already intentionally borrow heavily from, and are undoubtedly subconsciously influenced by, Sal and Eric’s designs. I’ve got to draw the line somewhere and give them space.

Not to imply the designs shared in this thread are from a bad place or anything at all like that! It’s clearly just conceptualizing what a handle-forward native may be desired to look like and is probably a useful conversation regarding handle preferences in general.
I’m envious of some of the skills shown here and it takes a lot to actually share something you’ve created with other people.

Forgot to add that I would absolutely buy that latest version of the design posted a couple posts above mine!

It's nice to be able see how things might look as you say and I take no credit for design as it was a simple copy paste. You should really give Fusion, or similar software, a try if your interested in doing models like that. It was very easy and took less than an hour to complete.

[Matus]

Ok so I smoothed out the handle to match the N5 more.

That looks really nice, maybe a bit less curve to the spine (the shown Native 5 is a bit less curved) and maybe a slightly different profile of the cutting edge, but let's leave some work for Spyderco too

And to react to other comments - yes, the simpler (more generic) the design gets, the more it will remind of other knife models.

[Manixguy@1994]

Ok so I smoothed out the handle to match the N5 more.

Very interesting Josh , really gives something to think about. Hope to see more ! MG2

[Bemo]

Fantastic job Josh. I'd buy that in a heart beat.

[olywa]

Mebbe add a small sharpening choil?

[Matus]

Mebbe add a small sharpening choil?

Are you trying to get yourself banned?

[Evil D]

Mebbe add a small sharpening choil?

You trying to get in a fight?

[Evil D]

Ok so I smoothed out the handle to match the N5 more.

Yeah the more I see that the more I like it, especially if they managed to put that much edge into the handle, and still allow for the index finger safety drop close function thing which seems to be largely effected by where the pivot is placed and how long the tang is allowed to be underneath the handle, and the pivot placement is going to ultimately limit how long the blade can be because it effects where the tip of the blade will be when the blade is folded (the further back the pivot, the further back the tip will be when closed). This design (handle forward) is actually really difficult to push towards a 50/50 edge: handle ratio, even despite the fact that it adds edge length by deleting the choil. Well, it's difficult if you still want that index finger closing function and you still want a back lock.

[Matus]

I don't think that this design still gives that index finger safety as the pivot is quite close to the end of the handle. I guess it is really hard to get both - index finger 'protection' and longest possible blade in a middle size knife.

[toocool006]

Yeah the more I see that the more I like it, especially if they managed to put that much edge into the handle, and still allow for the index finger safety drop close function thing which seems to be largely effected by where the pivot is placed and how long the tang is allowed to be underneath the handle, and the pivot placement is going to ultimately limit how long the blade can be because it effects where the tip of the blade will be when the blade is folded (the further back the pivot, the further back the tip will be when closed). This design (handle forward) is actually really difficult to push towards a 50/50 edge: handle ratio, even despite the fact that it adds edge length by deleting the choil. Well, it's difficult if you still want that index finger closing function and you still want a back lock.

Really great points, David. I personally wouldn't mind losing a 50-50 ratio to get all of the functionality you describe in this kind of design. It's not like the current Native design is anywhere close to 50-50 edge to handle ratio, with the choil taking up so much blade real estate, so to speak. But it might make the lines not quite as elegant as Josh's mockup, with a relatively stubbier blade.

[Evil D]

I don't think that this design still gives that index finger safety as the pivot is quite close to the end of the handle. I guess it is really hard to get both - index finger 'protection' and longest possible blade in a middle size knife.

This is my point. The pivot needs to be further back to allow that, and that would force the blade length to reduce or the handle length to increase. Can't have it both ways.

[pantagana23]

Ok so I smoothed out the handle to match the N5 more.

Yes!
This is what I was trying to draw a couple of pages back.

Thank you kind forum member.

[Ippon]

This thread is really making me think more about design aspects in knives, very fun! . I like the direction the sketches are headed. looks to be not only a good looking theoretical knife but also very useful, with more blade available. Thank you to those who have given ideas.

I don't think that this design still gives that index finger safety as the pivot is quite close to the end of the handle. I guess it is really hard to get both - index finger 'protection' and longest possible blade in a middle size knife.

I can see the same thing. When I look at my rock jumper, I see the pivot sits far back in the handle. From what I can gather from my limited designing knowledge, is this allows the lock to be pushed while the index finger is still close to the edge on the front of the handle.

However, on the Rock Jumper, there is not a lot of space for the blade to actually drop before it hits my index finger in this position very close to the front of the handle near the blade. Most of the time, I move my index finger back slightly when I close the Rock Jumper. This lets the blade have more space to fall, and gives me an easier time of closing the knife.

[Evil D]

Another difference is, on the Rock Jumper the handle has more of a hook at the bottom front of the handle that extends further forward and that allows you to move your index finger more forward and ensures that the ricasso hits your finger instead of the edge. On that rendering the handle is shaped to mimic the Native 5 but it may need to be tweaked to work more like the Rock Jumper. This may make it possible to leave the pivot where it is, which won't cost you blade length when closed but extending the handle forward will cost a few millimeters of edge length.

[olywa]

Mebbe add a small sharpening choil?

You trying to get in a fight?

Nah, just funnin'. But I do have a couple of benchstones that make me appreciate that feature and the extra 'scosche' of clearance it affords.

[Evil D]

Mebbe add a small sharpening choil?

You trying to get in a fight?

Nah, just funnin'. But I do have a couple of benchstones that make me appreciate that feature and the extra 'scosche' of clearance it affords.

Just remember, they're a LOT easier to add than they are to remove. For my uses they're literally a safety hazard.

[Josh Crutchley]

Another difference is, on the Rock Jumper the handle has more of a hook at the bottom front of the handle that extends further forward and that allows you to move your index finger more forward and ensures that the ricasso hits your finger instead of the edge. On that rendering the handle is shaped to mimic the Native 5 but it may need to be tweaked to work more like the Rock Jumper. This may make it possible to leave the pivot where it is, which won't cost you blade length when closed but extending the handle forward will cost a few millimeters of edge length.

This design needs a lot of tweaking to make it work. One issue that affects usability is Spydiehole placement and size. In my current rendering the scales will be in the way for your thumb.