[The Native 5 (and Manix 2 LW) just isn't a knife I'd want to spend a lot of time whittling with or doing any sort of hard cuttingwith for extended periods. Maybe those are just not jobs that this knife was designed to do. Still, it's a fair question of why, when other similarly sized and built knives are more rounded and would be much more forgiving of long periods of use.
I think that’s basically an indictment of this part of the design.
I went back to my old post about this to look at the comparison pictures I’d taken. In it I theorized the reason was to make room for the screw holes for the clip. Eyeballing that again I don’t think there’s a physical constraint there but a larger corner radius would make the area around the clip look more crowded.
I also worried that I wouldn’t like the Chaparral LW for the same reason. I’ve since had a Chap for a few years and adore it. The 45 degree bevels are perfect in the hand, no complaint at all.
Knives have to look good to sell. So I can’t fault Spyderco for balancing form and function in this way. Maybe the Native 6 will be more Chap like.
i still don't get why anyone has a problem with them. they're not sharp at all and i can't imagine ever needing to squeeze my knife hard enough for it to be a problem. if you are, you're probably using the wrong tool to begin with. it could be a little more rounded, but it's already not uncomfortable in normal pocket knife usage. i mean, it's not a competition chopper.
No, and that's a totally fair way to look at it. But, in the exact same way it's also fair to compare it to other knives that CAN be squeezed harder, used harder, etc etc without getting hot spots or worse, and those knives aren't any more the right tool for the job than a Native 5 is...unless handle roundedness is the definition of what makes it the right tool for that job, in which case I guess the Native 5 is just not up for the task. These days with prices being what they are, some people expect as much versatility as they can get from a knife, so details like this absolutely matter when comparing a Native 5 to (for example) a Delica which is similarly sized but significantly different in how sharply rounded the handle is.
i still don't get why anyone has a problem with them. they're not sharp at all and i can't imagine ever needing to squeeze my knife hard enough for it to be a problem. if you are, you're probably using the wrong tool to begin with. it could be a little more rounded, but it's already not uncomfortable in normal pocket knife usage. i mean, it's not a competition chopper.
No, and that's a totally fair way to look at it. But, in the exact same way it's also fair to compare it to other knives that CAN be squeezed harder, used harder, etc etc without getting hot spots or worse, and those knives aren't any more the right tool for the job than a Native 5 is...unless handle roundedness is the definition of what makes it the right tool for that job, in which case I guess the Native 5 is just not up for the task. These days with prices being what they are, some people expect as much versatility as they can get from a knife, so details like this absolutely matter when comparing a Native 5 to (for example) a Delica which is similarly sized but significantly different in how sharply rounded the handle is.
i get what you're saying, but the only place i feel a difference between the delica and native (aside from the size difference and the fact that the native fits my hand better ergonomically) is in my waistband. i can really feel the extra thickness and corners there, but i don't feel the corners in my hand.
for another example, i actually really dislike the ergos of the shaman compared to the manix. the rounded scales feel nice, i guess, but what i feel more is less bulk under my ring and pinky fingers with the shaman, which makes it less comfortable to me than the manix. maybe i'm just weird.
MNOSD 0002 / Do more than is required of you . Patton
Nothing makes earth so spacious as to have friends at a distance; they make the latitudes and longitudes.
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All we have is our own little theories about the Native 5 blockiness. I'll have to watch some reveal videos or show presentation to see if Eric or Sal ever discussed the subject.
I know Sal made a comment on the forum about how you couldn't feel the blockiness in-hands, which I partially agree with, but that's the extent of it.
Regarding question two, in a word, tolerances. The Golden factory holds closer manufacturing tolerances than the Seki makers.
I disagree, in my collection of Seki-City models, about 40+,,, all have excellent lock-up and fit/finish are superior. My only disappointment with 30+ years of Spyderco was with the BF special edition Native, had three knives and all had a large amount of lock rock. Sold them off immediately at a loss.
well, we are on an online forum discussing the blockiness of a knife handle like we're on some r&d committee.
Ya know to be fair, this topic does greatly depend on your use. When I talk about hot spots and ergonomics, I'm talking about using a knife pretty hard and for extended periods...I'm not talking about getting the knife out to cut up a box and then putting it away, I'm talking about going out in the back yard and using the knife for an hour or more and I use it hard. It probably doesn't matter to most people, and in most cases it may not matter to me either, but I do like knowing how much I can lean on a knife if I need to.
And still...this thread was asking a question. I'm still not sure that it was ever answered.
well, we are on an online forum discussing the blockiness of a knife handle like we're on some r&d committee.
Ya know to be fair, this topic does greatly depend on your use. When I talk about hot spots and ergonomics, I'm talking about using a knife pretty hard and for extended periods...I'm not talking about getting the knife out to cut up a box and then putting it away, I'm talking about going out in the back yard and using the knife for an hour or more and I use it hard. It probably doesn't matter to most people, and in most cases it may not matter to me either, but I do like knowing how much I can lean on a knife if I need to.
And still...this thread was asking a question. I'm still not sure that it was ever answered.
that's kind of what i was trying to get at. i know that some people like to push their pocket knives into every kind of work they might encounter in a day, but that kind of testing shouldn't be treated as typical usage. if i need to do extended landscaping work, i'm probably not going to use my pocket knife. if i'm breaking down boxes all day, i'm probably not going to use my pocket knife. sure, i can do it, but if i have to do that for one instance and i get a blister, it's not a fault in the design of the knife. if i was drowning because i was stuck in a net in the ocean and i used my pacific salt to free myself, but then dropped it and lost it as i scrambled to the surface for air, i'm not going to complain that the frn wasn't grippy enough.
all i'm trying to say is, if what we are doing with our pocket knife is outside of the realm of normal cutting, or there is an actual tool for that job, we probably shouldn't fault the design of the knife for how it reacts to our pushing it.
i'm not really trying to open a can of worms here... i know people enjoy using their knives hard. i'm trying to resharpen some knives right now that a friend decided to use to cut drywall with. smh... use your knife how you want, but don't blame the knife if you expecting it to be something that it's not.
I feel that if you take the G-10 version and compare it to the PM2, Para3 and certainly a lot of other Golden made G-10 handled knives, it's the same "kind" of scales.
The LW version has the exact same dimensions in every way (if we don't count the liners for the older C41GP5). Golden lightweights with more rounded corners than their G-10 counterparts are way more recent if I'm not mistaken.
(Native 6 LW with rounded-rounded corners? )
In the collection : Lots of different steels, in lots of different (and same) Spydercos.
Robin. Finally made an IG : ramo_knives MNOSD member 004* aka Mr. N5s
Well, circling back around to the question of the thread....why is this one a Lego brick while others are not?
That's what puzzle me the most.
The delica is well countoured. Same for the Chapparal and the Para 3 LW. All are FRN, belonging to the same category : compact EDC.
Funny thing is, Spyderco went for the same blockiness with the incoming Native Chief FRN. Could it be a sign that the blockiness is a signature of the Natives FRN.
I still don't understand. The Para 3 LW is linerless too and yet... it's well countoured.
i don't know why it's not contoured. maybe it's more expensive to make molds that are contoured and they were trying to keep costs down. maybe it's because those other knives are from asia and the native is american, and in america, we're cowboys with rough hands that value a hard day of real work, so we like our knives to be more rough around the edges like we are. (man... that was actually difficult to type, even as a joke.) all i know is that it doesn't matter to me whether they are contoured or not in my use.
The Native 5 (and Manix 2 LW) just isn't a knife I'd want to spend a lot of time whittling with or doing any sort of hard cuttingwith for extended periods.
I understand what you are saying here, but whenever I need to use a folder for hard use over extended periods, I find the single biggest ergonomic flaw and hot spot generator is the part inherent with a folding knife, the cut out in the handle for the blade to fold back in to when closed. The second biggest is the thinness of the knife itself. The edges of the handle scales is pretty far down the list, for me. With gloves on, it goes unnoticed. That said, I'm all in favor of more Shaman like scales for every knife. What I don't want is for people to bypass the Native family or the Manix 2 because they heard the knives are so uncomfortable to use.
But, as Dalton says "Opinions vary".
"...it costs nothing to be polite." - Winston Churchill
“Maybe the cheese in the mousetrap is an artificially created cheaper price?” -Sal
Regarding question two, in a word, tolerances. The Golden factory holds closer manufacturing tolerances than the Seki makers.
I disagree, in my collection of Seki-City models, about 40+,,, all have excellent lock-up and fit/finish are superior. My only disappointment with 30+ years of Spyderco was with the BF special edition Native, had three knives and all had a large amount of lock rock. Sold them off immediately at a loss.
Regards,
FK
With regards, the BF Native was NOT the Native5 that we have today, made to tolerances of much less than plus or minus 0.001" in all dimensions.
The Native 5 (and Manix 2 LW) just isn't a knife I'd want to spend a lot of time whittling with or doing any sort of hard cuttingwith for extended periods. Maybe those are just not jobs that this knife was designed to do. Still, it's a fair question of why, when other similarly sized and built knives are more rounded and would be much more forgiving of long periods of use.
That little guy in the middle was done entirely with a Maxamet Natve 5 LW. The width of the tip was actually the biggest hinderence to whittling.
The Native 5 (and Manix 2 LW) just isn't a knife I'd want to spend a lot of time whittling with or doing any sort of hard cuttingwith for extended periods. Maybe those are just not jobs that this knife was designed to do. Still, it's a fair question of why, when other similarly sized and built knives are more rounded and would be much more forgiving of long periods of use.
That little guy in the middle was done entirely with a Maxamet Natve 5 LW. The width of the tip was actually the biggest hinderence to whittling.
Maybe "whittling" is dumbing it down too much, maybe I just have soft hands.
I don't wanna do this stuff with a Native 5 or Manix 2.
Yes, there are better tools, that's a moot point and doesn't change the facts here. If we argue "right tool for the job" at every situation, we'll quickly find that pocket knives are obsolete. It still also doesn't change the fact that other knives (other folders) can do that exact level of "bushcraft" or whatever you'd like to call it with less issues on my poor dainty hands.
Yep, just ribbing you a little. Whittling means something different to me than it does to some people. I'm not a big fan of the Native platform, at least until you get to the Chief. As I see it, the question is less "should it be changed?" and more "is it economically feasible to make expensive new molds at this time?"
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