Best PM2 in either M390/204P/20CV

[salimoneus]

Is there a consensus on which PM2 sprint/exclusive in any of these three metals is the "best" as far as blade performance? I realize all three are very close to the same composition, but obviously there are differences in manufacturing and heat treatments, etc. There's likely even variances between different batches of exactly the same knife.

Which specific run is as close to perfection as you can get for this family of metals?

[Airlsee]

I don't know of anyone that has done extensive testing on all the variants. As you mentioned, they are going to vary batch to batch and even more so with years between releases (M390).

I've had 2 of the 20CV variants and the grinding and fit & finish were quite different between those 2 knives. I think any three knives you get are going to have enough overlap/variance that you won't be able to determine definitively either way.

I would say go with whichever one appeals to you the most, or that you can find for sale.

That being said, it seemed like the 204P variants were prized by the people that had them.

[salimoneus]

About the only resource I could find was a guy's spreadsheet with results from his Youtube cutting tests (sorry don't recall the channel right now). He seems to have a reasonable system.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... =990688885

From his numbers M390 consistently outperforms 20CV by a pretty good margin in his cutting tests.

Unfortunately he only has rockwell numbers for a couple PM2 samples in M390, both coming in at 62 and 62.5. As I recall for the other two steels, I have seen numbers more in the 60-61 range, which seems less than ideal.

[Airlsee]

Outpost 76 & JCoolG19, I used to watch many of their videos, useful resources.

If you can find an M390 run at 62-63, then go with that one. I have not tested the 20CV model but if run softer then yes, I would expect it to not cut cardboard for as long.

I don't think their results will be guarantees for every batch, and that it will depend on the exact model that you end up having in your hands though...

[Xformer]

M390 is and has always been one of the best steel around there as long as you're willing to spend the money.

That was before Magnacut became a thing, but still. It's a solid N°2.

[benben]

I have a Green 204P and a Red M390, both are excellent examples of the PM2, as for which one is better.....? The Red DLT version definitely had a slicker action out of the box, and I may like it just a tad more than the Green 204P one. But both are about as good as a PM2 gets! Never owned anything in 20CV.

[salimoneus]

I have a Green 204P and a Red M390, both are excellent examples of the PM2, as for which one is better.....? The Red DLT version definitely had a slicker action out of the box, and I may like it just a tad more than the Green 204P one. But both are about as good as a PM2 gets! Never owned anything in 20CV.

How do the two compare with regards to performance of the blade steel?

[benben]

I have a Green 204P and a Red M390, both are excellent examples of the PM2, as for which one is better.....? The Red DLT version definitely had a slicker action out of the box, and I may like it just a tad more than the Green 204P one. But both are about as good as a PM2 gets! Never owned anything in 20CV.

How do the two compare with regards to performance of the blade steel?

Identical, but I do feel the M390 gives just a little more satisfying feedback on the brown rods on my Sharpmaker...if that makes any sense? But in reality, they're really the same!

[Superflex]

I think short of rockwell testing data, most opinions here are purely subjective and probably based more on the action that the blade performance. I seriously doubt anyone can look you in the eye and tell you the KJ 20CV is better than the BBS M390 as far as cutting performance or sharpenability goes.
The three steels are 99.5% the same steel so heat treat is the biggest variable. Since most of these runs were less than 1000 +/- units, heat treating was probably done at the same time so I doubt there is any variability between the heat treat.
All three steels will perform **** near the same.
Don't overthink this. Just buy one and enjoy.
The only M390s were the smurf blue Bento Box Shop and the red DLT Trading runs.
204P was a REC run in Olive Green with a brown/tan DLC coating (big bucks on secondary) and 20CV was a Knife Joy neon green run.
None are currently in production so the secondary market is your only option for a PM2 in one of these steels.

[salimoneus]

I think short of rockwell testing data, most opinions here are purely subjective and probably based more on the action that the blade performance. I seriously doubt anyone can look you in the eye and tell you the KJ 20CV is better than the BBS M390 as far as cutting performance or sharpenability goes.

I think having two knives, one at 62.5 and one at 60.2, there could certainly be a perceived difference in performance, especially if someone is sharpening the knives the same way, and using them for the same tasks. I mean the spreadsheet I posted shows M390 as being moderately superior to 20CV in several cutting tests. Sure it's only one individual's results, and the methods used probably aren't the most scientific, but it's still useful info.

I also think that many people just assume the performance must be on par with each other, simply because the composition is so similar, but I don't think that assumption is necessarily valid.

[Eli Chaps]

M390 and 20CV are exactly the same. CTS-204P only has a miniscule difference in a couple elements.

I would venture to say that heat treat protocols are the same but I didn't look them up.

I doubt any user would ever know the difference if it wasn't stamped on the blade.

http://www.zknives.com/knives/steels/st ... hrn=1&gm=0

[benben]

I think short of rockwell testing data, most opinions here are purely subjective and probably based more on the action that the blade performance. I seriously doubt anyone can look you in the eye and tell you the KJ 20CV is better than the BBS M390 as far as cutting performance or sharpenability goes.
The three steels are 99.5% the same steel so heat treat is the biggest variable. Since most of these runs were less than 1000 +/- units, heat treating was probably done at the same time so I doubt there is any variability between the heat treat.
All three steels will perform **** near the same.
Don't overthink this. Just buy one and enjoy.
The only M390s were the smurf blue Bento Box Shop and the red DLT Trading runs.
204P was a REC run in Olive Green with a brown/tan DLC coating (big bucks on secondary) and 20CV was a Knife Joy neon green run.
None are currently in production so the secondary market is your only option for a PM2 in one of these steels.

And there was the Forest Green Knifeworks exclusive 204P.

[FK]

IMHO it is more about edge geometry and sharpening stones/strop used than steel alloys or small amount of Rc differences.
The tester sharpens without really knowing a apex angles very accurately and does not measure them in any manner.
The Rc tests are rather suspect, many are done in small shops with older testing machines and not very consistent. Modern computer temperature controlled furnaces are very accurate and do not produce the wide variations reported in YouTube videos.

Regards,
FK

[Nice marmot]

Whichever one came in blue. I’m pretty sure there is scientific evidence that all things being equal knives with blue handles perform the best.

Seriously though. There is no way the average user could tell those three apart.

[salimoneus]

M390 and 20CV are exactly the same. CTS-204P only has a miniscule difference in a couple elements.

I would venture to say that heat treat protocols are the same but I didn't look them up.

I doubt any user would ever know the difference if it wasn't stamped on the blade.

http://www.zknives.com/knives/steels/st ... hrn=1&gm=0

I'm inclined to disagree there, heat treatments have shown to vary greatly, some barely 60 and some over 62. It may not seem like much of a % difference, but just a couple points seems to have a noticeable affect on performance.

[salimoneus]

M390 is and has always been one of the best steel around there as long as you're willing to spend the money.

That was before Magnacut became a thing, but still. It's a solid N°2.

I agree Magnacut looks very promising, but I feel like that steel is at least a year out from showing up in some of the more popular models (PM2, Manix, Shaman, etc). Certainly hoping to see it sooner like everyone else no doubt!

[Eli Chaps]

M390 and 20CV are exactly the same. CTS-204P only has a miniscule difference in a couple elements.

I would venture to say that heat treat protocols are the same but I didn't look them up.

I doubt any user would ever know the difference if it wasn't stamped on the blade.

http://www.zknives.com/knives/steels/st ... hrn=1&gm=0

I'm inclined to disagree there, heat treatments have shown to very greatly, some barely 60 and some over 62. It may not seem like much of a % difference, but just a couple points seems to have a noticeable affect on performance.

There will always be variance in RC results. That's why those who report them generally provide a range. You would have to test each specific, individual knife, at least twice.

Where is the data that supports this spread? Also, is it consistent to a particular steel and model?

One data point a trend no make. Two data points is a line. Three, now we're talking.

[Fireman]

I am guessing the “best” is yet to yet to be the Magna Cut version that will be popular and suit a lot of people’s needs. I would like to see more knives in 52100 with DLC.

[kennethsime]

I love the 204p on my Military, but honestly the steels are so similar I would go by scale color man. Unless you’re going for aftermarket scales, in which case grab whichever one you can get for the best price.

[Bill1170]

I love the 204p on my Military, but honestly the steels are so similar I would go by scale color man. Unless you’re going for aftermarket scales, in which case grab whichever one you can get for the best price.

Yes, pick your favorite color and be happy.