Manix II spring tension

[TriggerThumb]

And at the risk of sounding like a negative nelly, I love everything else about the manix and plan to by a g10 version to mod the spring. I just hope a consideration to the design (or maybe just QC since some don't have these issues) will turn this into the perfect knife for me.

[Evil D]

Guys keep in mind, a weaker spring equals a weaker lock. A softer spring means the ball is more likely to disengage the tang. It may be less fun as a fidget toy but it's safer and stronger as a knife.

Unless it causes pain and/or is almost impossible to use as a practical tool. Granted it is for heavier use than a non locking knife, they exist. And if the use of the knife demands a lock that isn't practical to use, a fixed blade is probably the tool best suited for the job. I don't baton with my knife, particularly with a more fragile steel like s110v, and therefore expect frequent slicing to be the assumed pretense for my knife. As it stands I have not seen a manix suited to this use.

Not every lock/design is for every person. Clearly there are many who use it without pain. Just because yours hasn't failed doesn't mean it can't or won't. There's really no debate here, a softer spring is absolutely a weaker lock on this design. Less force keeping the ball on the tang increases the possibility that it can come off. When Ankerson did his hard use testing and the lock failed spine whack tests it was because the ball bounced off the tang. I don't really have a need for spine whacks but I'd bet a weaker spring would fail that test even easier. I'm sure it's fine for casual use but I also believe Spyderco know what they're doing and use the spring they do for a reason.

[Canazes9]

A couple of comments:

1) It is quite common for coil springs to lose initial spring rate with some break in, and it is absolutely not defective. A spring that constantly loses tension would be defective. If you've ever lifted a truck by replaceing the coil overs, you know not to adjust the suspension until you've driven it a few hundred miles - it's going to sag from its initial setting.

2) There is more than just the spring loosening up involved in the break in of the Manix2 - the ball rubbing on the steel wears in, initially there may be some stickiness. The plastic inserts and G10 wear in, allowing easier movement also. I imagine the reason some don't experience "break in" has more to do with actual opening and closeing. It's easy to carry a knife you don't like opening and closeing for months without more than several dozen opening and closings. Mine broke in after several hundred opening and closings a day for several weeks. Another part of the break in was me becoming accustomed to operating it.

3) S110V fragile? You serious Clark? S110V certainly isn't the toughest steel made, but it is hardly fragile.

David

[Jammin57]

Well I am totally Blown Away by all of the great responses. Thank you to all that offered advice and posted your experiences. The YouTube videos are perfect. And thank you Kirilpetkov for the parts site and order information. I have been thinking about replacing the spring. I'll follow the advice and give it a chance to break in. But will update this thread if I swap out the parts. Thanks!

[Diamondback]

A couple of comments:

1) It is quite common for coil springs to lose initial spring rate with some break in, and it is absolutely not defective. A spring that constantly loses tension would be defective. If you've ever lifted a truck by replaceing the coil overs, you know not to adjust the suspension until you've driven it a few hundred miles - it's going to sag from its initial setting.

2) There is more than just the spring loosening up involved in the break in of the Manix2 - the ball rubbing on the steel wears in, initially there may be some stickiness. The plastic inserts and G10 wear in, allowing easier movement also. I imagine the reason some don't experience "break in" has more to do with actual opening and closeing. It's easy to carry a knife you don't like opening and closeing for months without more than several dozen opening and closings. Mine broke in after several hundred opening and closings a day for several weeks. Another part of the break in was me becoming accustomed to operating it.

3) S110V fragile? You serious Clark? S110V certainly isn't the toughest steel made, but it is hardly fragile.

David

...so, should I be concerned that my new Manix 2 feels to me as if it were "broke in" when I first took it out of the box and opened and closed the lock ?

[Stuman]

Jammin57, I have 7 Manix’es and collect them and they all work flawlessly. You don’t want to be taking your Manix 2s apart risking your warranty. The secret to a easey opening lock on a Manix 2 is time !, you need to play with you Manix a lot and get that spring worked in as a spring losses it’s tension over time and the more you use it the more it will lose tension, they all reach a sweet spot. The other thing is that Spyderco use Red threadlock so you may damage either your screws or your tools trying to get them out. If you really think that you need it looked at send it to Spyderco as any parts damaged during disassembley will be replaced by Spyderco free as it’s Spydercos fault.

As far as I knew the warranty changed, as well as the red loctite issue, at least from the knives coming out of Colorado which were known for it. Although I would assume trimming the spring would still void the warranty, it's better than having a nearly unusable knife. Apparently you don't have this problem but many do, it's a known issue. Especially with the lightweights seeing as how they are pinned and unable to be modded. Lastly, many people also have never experienced a "loosening" of the spring. As sharpguy suggested, if your spring changes in tension from use its probably a somehow defective spring. I have noticed the finger grips that rub against the scales are extremely tight tolerances, and rubbing together may loosen the whole mechanism somewhat, but not enough to compensate if your spring is too stiff. Just my 2 cents, as they say "YMMV

Every spring looses tension because over time all metals fertiuges with use, it’s basic metallurgy. For example why do you think after a certain amount of hours aircraft are overhauled and after that they scrap them as the fuselage compresses and decomposes over time fatigue fractures develop from micro fractures in fact they actually go over the fuselage with a type of microscope at the known metal fatigue points and in a sense a spring is no different and eventually the spring will fail like they do in air rifles and McPherson struts on cars and alsorts of watches and clocks so this is why I said to play with your Manix more as the spring will lose some of its tension but the reason I mentioned the red thread lock thing is because I have no idea when your Manix was made so for all I know you could or could not have the Manix with red thread lock and from my experience it’s always helpful to send the manufacturer a email before considering taking apart your Manix or any knife apart as they will know if there is something wrong after you take the time to explain the issue with them and they will be the best able to offer you advice.

[Stuman]

Jammin57, I have 7 Manix’es and collect them and they all work flawlessly. You don’t want to be taking your Manix 2s apart risking your warranty. The secret to a easey opening lock on a Manix 2 is time !, you need to play with you Manix a lot and get that spring worked in as a spring losses it’s tension over time and the more you use it the more it will lose tension, they all reach a sweet spot. The other thing is that Spyderco use Red threadlock so you may damage either your screws or your tools trying to get them out. If you really think that you need it looked at send it to Spyderco as any parts damaged during disassembley will be replaced by Spyderco free as it’s Spydercos fault.

As far as I knew the warranty changed, as well as the red loctite issue, at least from the knives coming out of Colorado which were known for it. Although I would assume trimming the spring would still void the warranty, it's better than having a nearly unusable knife. Apparently you don't have this problem but many do, it's a known issue. Especially with the lightweights seeing as how they are pinned and unable to be modded. Lastly, many people also have never experienced a "loosening" of the spring. As sharpguy suggested, if your spring changes in tension from use its probably a somehow defective spring. I have noticed the finger grips that rub against the scales are extremely tight tolerances, and rubbing together may loosen the whole mechanism somewhat, but not enough to compensate if your spring is too stiff. Just my 2 cents, as they say "YMMV

Every spring looses tension because over time all metals fertiuges with use, it’s basic metallurgy. For example why do you think after a certain amount of hours aircraft are overhauled and after that they scrap them as the fuselage compresses and decompresses over time, fatigue fractures develop from micro fractures, in fact they actually go over the fuselage with a type of microscope at the known metal fatigue points and in a sense a spring is no different and eventually the spring will fail like they do in air rifles and McPherson struts on cars and alsorts of watches and clocks so this is why I said to play with your Manix more as the spring will lose some of its tension but the reason I mentioned the red thread lock thing is because I have no idea when your Manix was made so for all I know you could or could not have the Manix with red thread lock and from my experience it’s always helpful to send the manufacturer a email before considering taking apart your Manix or any knife apart as they will know if there is something wrong after you take the time to explain the issue with them and they will be in the best position to be able to offer you advice.

[RLDubbya]

Every spring looses tension because over time all metals fertiuges with use, it’s basic metallurgy.

Indeed.

For example, cribbed from a spring manufacturer site: http://www.lesjoforsab.com/standard-spr ... prings.asp. The spring in the Manix is a compression spring; it is subject to elastic deformation which will, sooner or later, become plastic. The aforementioned manufacturer has a little graph which shows that elastic -> plastic deformation is a function of time compressed; there are a number of other factors identified as well.

From a layman's perspective, when a spring has crossed a certain threshold and much of the elastic deformation has become plastic, we call that spring "worn out."

However: it is possible to specify a spring of size, material, etc., for a given application such that it's estimated life will be in dozens of years. Presumably, Eric G. has properly specified a spring for the Manix which will not experience any significant amount of plastic deformation in normal use.

As far as the Manix: I currently own 3 or 4; ranging from XL S30V to standard S30V to LWS110V; I've had another 6 come through for sharpening (various models and sprints), and I have never had a problem opening/closing a Manix with one hand. A buddy of mine who is a bladesmith recently gave a Manix to his son on his 12th birthday; a coming of age gift, if you like. The boy has no problems operating the lock and knife one handed.

I'd like to suggest that instead of looking for a non-existent problem with the Manix, it might just be worthwhile to look at muscular function. I find it hard to reason my way from one person out of many having a problem to the problem existing in the knife.

[mattman]

Good advice RLDubbya.

My experience was that it took a bit of muscle memory training to get the butt to nest in the right spot in my palm (XL Mechanix gloves fit me just about perfectly).

After that short learning curve, it became natural, and certainly felt less awkward. I think this gets often mis-interpreted as "the spring breaking in", but it's entirely subjective, idk? I don't notice any of my examples feeling "softer", just me being more accustomed/intuitive to the closing operation...

Edit:

I should add that I have definitely noticed the "landing" on the tang where the bearing slides out to unlock has smoothed noticably after a bit of break in time.

[Stuman]

Good advice RLDubbya.

My experience was that it took a bit of muscle memory training to get the butt to nest in the right spot in my palm (XL Mechanix gloves fit me just about perfectly).

After that short learning curve, it became natural, and certainly felt less awkward. I think this gets often mis-interpreted as "the spring breaking in", but it's entirely subjective, idk? I don't notice any of my examples feeling "softer", just me being more accustomed/intuitive to the closing operation...

Edit:

I should add that I have definitely noticed the "landing" on the tang where the bearing slides out to unlock has smoothed noticably after a bit of break in time.

[Stuman]

Sorry I pressed the wrong button and ended up reposting mattmans post but what I was going to say was the best advice one can get is from the people or “companies” more aptly who made the knife. They have thousands and thousands of hours put into R & D of these knives and not to mention testing destructive and non destructive and on this occasion I will say Spyderco are the best people to help you with there knives and it is Spyderco who honnor your warranty at the end of the day and if you knife is out of warranty then still contact them for advice as they still might be able to help and it’s the right thing to do at the end of day and advice costs nothing and could save you a head ache and money.

[werm000]

Hello,

Are you satisfied with the tension on these springs? I installed some lighter springs that I bought on eBay, but they are a little too light (makes it hard to flick). I noticed that this manufacturer you linked to has a few different springs with various tension.

Is your just right for flicking? Would you go with a little stronger spring?

Thanks!

I apologize for my bad English. I've done tuning on my manix. I changed the metal ball with ceramic balls -Silicon-Nitride Ceramic https://www.mcmaster.com/#ceramic-balls/=1a9quhn , I also changed the spring with the same but soft https://www.mcmaster.com/#1986K46.







https://youtu.be/yXOzTlhEBNI

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_cont ... G9SgjNMm3k

[Manixguy@1994]

I have a lwt . and a G10 M390 . I had a short break in with both , now operate smoothly. I will never mod either knife , but do have a preference for the lock back models . MG2

[DOUBLE D]

New to the boards and hoping this is posted correctly. I would like to hear what folks are saying about the spring tension on the Manix II ball bearing lock. The tension on my knife makes it way too hard to close the blade. I have seen some talk about this but have not seen a lot of solutions. Of course I can open the knife and try different spring solutions, but I am saying for the quality and build of this knife I just cannot believe Spyderco intended it this way. Hence my question: Is there a simple solution that I have not seen? Has anyone made any such modifications to their knives? I am surprised there is not already a thread for this subject. Thank you!

I had the same issue with multiple manixes. I eventually decided to not use that model anymore because of it. Some of what people have said is true in that the spring will lighten a little bit to a slightly more manageable tension. A few of mine were a bit better than others. But even the lightest tensioned one I’ve ever felt was too much for me to enjoy using regularly. I know some people like the stronger lock, I just prefer something different, in that I don’t like it to be a chore to disengage. Just my two cents.

[Wartstein]

I think this is one of those "can´t be perfect for everyone" things. Just like some value a very grippy handle, for others it´s to abrasive; Some want a very pointy tip, for others it´s too fragile and so on.

I personally can just repeat: On every Manix I tried (not too many though admittedly) it was no problem at all to even operate the lock with just one finger (thumb or index finger), let alone with one hand (and two fingers).
This got even easier after some breaking in.

I am one of those who´d really hate if the spring tension got lesser. One of the CBBL advantages is its self closing and not being prone to open in the pocket. Not as good as a backlock, but still nice to have!

Did a thread once about 6 methods of closing a CBBL one handed (viewtopic.php?t=87806#p1459252) and made some vids for that purpose. I´ll put them below, on method 2,3,4, and 5 you can see the "just one finger" operation. Don´t know if this requires mainly a bit of finger strength or if more technique is involved.

1.) https://streamable.com/ar7okf

2.) https://streamable.com/f9gm4s

3.) https://streamable.com/tep9bx

4.) https://streamable.com/79jhhr

5.) https://streamable.com/yvpuf7

6.) https://streamable.com/msetaz

[DOUBLE D]

I think this is one of those "can´t be perfect for everyone" things. Just like some value a very grippy handle, for others it´s to abrasive; Some want a very pointy tip, for others it´s too fragile and so on.

100% agree with this

[Bolster]

Guys keep in mind, a weaker spring equals a weaker lock. A softer spring means the ball is more likely to disengage the tang. It may be less fun as a fidget toy but it's safer and stronger as a knife.

^ this is why I don't mod my Manixes. I'm willing to use two fingers to pull back the ball cage if it means a no-worry lockup w/o risk of disengagement.

[JSumm]

I will say, My Earth Brown G10 has a noticeably lighter tension than my LW. So for someone concerned with tension they may just want to look at the G10 versions over the Lightweights. Seems like I have heard the same from other members that have both.

Honestly, I think one of the things that makes the CBBL so great is how sturdy if feels opening and closing. My fear with loosening the tension in it, is that you would potentially loose some of what makes it so great. There are competitors that have looser tension in their springs, and I have had those break on me.

3.) https://streamable.com/tep9bx

Also Wartstein, #3 "Reverse Spider Drop" is really cool, and I will be practicing. I actually started practicing after you dropped these vids on the other thread.

[Sharp Guy]

I will say, My Earth Brown G10 has a noticeably lighter tension than my LW. So for someone concerned with tension they may just want to look at the G10 versions over the Lightweights. Seems like I have heard the same from other members that have both.

I have several of each and that's not been my experience. I've had two LWs that seemed to be a little easier to pull back the lock than any of my other LWs or G10s. My first G10 was seemed a little easier to operate than all my subsequent G10s. All the rest of the LWs and G10s seem to be about the same. None of them are overly difficult to operate with a thumb on one side and finger on the other. People like to compare the CBBL knives with the BM Axis lock knives and they're two very different locks

[Evil D]

Guys keep in mind, a weaker spring equals a weaker lock. A softer spring means the ball is more likely to disengage the tang. It may be less fun as a fidget toy but it's safer and stronger as a knife.

^ this is why I don't mod my Manixes. I'm willing to use two fingers to pull back the ball cage if it means a no-worry lockup w/o risk of disengagement.

I wonder if there's a way to design it so that the ball seats far enough into the tang that even with a light spring it can't just "come out", while making the lock easier to operate with just a thumb? Say for example if there was a way that the ball could travel an entire inch into the tang and seat into place, how strong would the spring really need to be to keep it there? Right now the spring is really strong and the ball on mine isn't onto the tang very far. I wonder if it could be adjusted through CQI so that the ball seats in there maybe around 2mm so that it can't possibly slip off the tang, and then maybe we could get away with a significantly lighter spring pressure and much easier operation.