Need help: Remedying gritty action on stainless steel Endura (no disassembly, no screws at all!)

[JRinFL]

I have an idea that sometimes there is a burr on the lock bar (the part that fits into the blade tang) that starts to break off and the little pieces of the burr are causing the grittiness. Other than the times I know I have sand in the action, the only time it has happened to me were on new knives.

[S-3 ranch]

...
.... but the lock bars are sometimes rough and sometimes they only contact the tang part way and they can even start to dig scratches into the tang over time....

Thanks again!

Yeah, I know what you mean, had this on one ore two backlocks, but just to a slight degree so it did not bother me.
But, as said: I think I can rule out that such wear over time is the case here. My SS Endura was perfectly fine when I put it in pocket, next time I deployed the action was grittier than I´ve ever experienced on any Spyderco...(now people will wonder what kind of lint must live in my pockets.. )

You know, since I very rarely had such issues with my backlocks, and if, clearly less severe I begin to think that the stainless steel construction might make the knife "behave" differently here:
Due to the extremely rigid built, there is not a bit of flex in the handle, also not at the front part where the blade sits.
Now a tiny bit of flex and motion there, which I guess all Seki FRN backlocks tend to have (perhaps not even really conceivable, but still existent) might actually act a bit in the way of a "self cleaning function" - as said, the SS construction can´t offer this (does not mean that the very rigid built and feel is not nice in other capacities).

Good thing is: Most people won´t use a heavy, slick and thin handled SS Spyderco as a dedicated outdoor-mud-and-dirt folder anyway... I still DO so though occasionally... (see pic below)

Man I get deer & hog fat, blood, dirt , sand stuck in my pivot usually a soak In soapy water, then a blast of WD-40 and a wipe down, worst case use a ear swab with oil to scrub it out .

[Wartstein]

Man I get deer & hog fat, blood, dirt , sand stuck in my pivot usually a soak In soapy water, then a blast of WD-40 and a wipe down, worst case use a ear swab with oil to scrub it out .

Yes, my FRN backlock folders get also all kind of dirt, mud, food.. in the pivot and rinse them with soapy water always made them quickly perfectly working again.

But, as said, not so with this stainless steel
Endura

[ladybug93]

did you try rinsing it?

sorry. i don't have any other advice, but it's entertaining seeing the same advice given over and over after you said you already tried it and it didn't work.

[S-3 ranch]

did you try rinsing it?

sorry. i don't have any other advice, but it's entertaining seeing the same advice given over and over after you said you already tried it and it didn't work.

Yep, only one thing is using a pipe resin cleaner soaked in 3:1 oil , then blast with air/ keyboard spray, only a few tricks to cleaning a pivot, besides putting it in a cycle in the dishwasher

[RustyIron]

if the knife is ever gonna touch food, I wouldn't use anything with gnarly solvents, toxic petroleum distillates, heavy metals, etc. You get what I mean. Those things leave residue that you can probably never fully remove.

If you can never remove these scary chemicals, how do they jump off the knife and onto your sandwich? But now that you bring it up, what kinds of coolants, cleaners, and lubricants does Spyderco use at the factory? Let's start a campaign to get a special line of Spyderco knives, with green scales, that only uses non-toxic free-range locally-sourced vegan chemicals in manufacturing. Even better, the Spyderco Green Line needs to be made from steel that doesn't contain any hazardous heavy metals, like chromium.

swish the knife in 90% rubbing alcohol afterwards

DUDE! Rubbing alcohol has poison INTENTIONALLY added to it, to make it POISONOUS! It will kill you.

[JRinFL]

did you try rinsing it?

sorry. i don't have any other advice, but it's entertaining seeing the same advice given over and over after you said you already tried it and it didn't work.

Mea culpa.

[ladybug93]

did you try rinsing it?

sorry. i don't have any other advice, but it's entertaining seeing the same advice given over and over after you said you already tried it and it didn't work.

Mea culpa.

yeah. me too.

[Toucan]

if the knife is ever gonna touch food, I wouldn't use anything with gnarly solvents, toxic petroleum distillates, heavy metals, etc. You get what I mean. Those things leave residue that you can probably never fully remove.

If you can never remove these scary chemicals, how do they jump off the knife and onto your sandwich? But now that you bring it up, what kinds of coolants, cleaners, and lubricants does Spyderco use at the factory? Let's start a campaign to get a special line of Spyderco knives, with green scales, that only uses non-toxic free-range locally-sourced vegan chemicals in manufacturing. Even better, the Spyderco Green Line needs to be made from steel that doesn't contain any hazardous heavy metals, like chromium.

swish the knife in 90% rubbing alcohol afterwards

DUDE! Rubbing alcohol has poison INTENTIONALLY added to it, to make it POISONOUS! It will kill you.

Rubbing alcohol that made with ethanol is denatured in the US has acetone and methanol added, which evaporate and don't really leave much on them. It still wouldn't be my first choice. Rubbing alcohol that is isopropyl alcohol is generally more common, and may have a bitterant added, but as solvents go, it is pretty dang safe to use. I have more faith in first aid isopropyl alcohol being safer and more free of dangerous chemicals and contaminates than brake cleaner.

If you want to be pedantic, fine. By heavy metals I mean things like cadmium and lead, which are not uncommon in industrial applications.

I'm not sure how not wanting PB Blaster or 3-in-one penatrating oil residue on my food is a vegan or "green" issue. I have no problem using those things on rusty hinges or a seized bolt.

I'm aware that industrial production isn't "clean". Certain concessions must be made. That doesn't mean I'm gonna go outta my way to reintroduce contaminates into something that is gonna be contacting food.

Idk why you're busting my chops here. You're not dunking on some vegan hippie. It's not bad advice to say don't clean a kitchen knife with brake cleaner and 3-in-one. I mean, if you, or people on this forum want to, that's your prerogative.

[VashHash]

I usually use an air compressor. It has higher pressure. I'll soak the pivot with wd40 because it's cheap and then blow it out a few times. Another trick I'll use if I don't want to disassemble a knife is a sheet of paper. I'll slide it around the pivot area and use it to push out debris. It's like flossing the pivot area. This may or may not work with the endura.



Here you can see some dark debris on the paper after sliding it.

[Wartstein]

.. Another trick I'll use if I don't want to disassemble a knife is a sheet of paper. I'll slide it around the pivot area and use it to push out debris. It's like flossing the pivot area. This may or may not work with the endura.
..
Here you can see some dark debris on the paper after sliding it.
...

Thanks for your help!

I actually tried (as described in my original post) the "paper trick" - did not work in that case...

[SG89]

What about baking soda and vinegar? Foaming action may help? Sprinkle baking soda into all the crevices around the pivot and lockbar while the knife is open and locked then pour some vinegar on it. Then rinse. If it's still gritty try those steps again but with the knife closed. Did you already try using a toothbrush?

[RustyIron]

If you want to be pedantic, fine. By heavy metals I mean things like cadmium and lead, which are not uncommon in industrial applications.

Although I quoted you, my rebuttal wasn't intended for you, but for the hundreds of other people who might be reading, who might come away with an irrational fear of everyday, mundane products. My goal is to inform people that there is no need to be scared of everyday products such as a squirt-can of oil, despite what Eyewitness News and the Village Voice have to say.

To be crystal clear, none of the suggestions made in this thread contain cadmium or lead. PB Blaster was specifically mentioned by as being questionable, so I looked up the Material Data Safety Sheet. The key takeaways are that there is nothing unusual about the product (including no heavy metals). Inhalation might cause irritation of the respiratory tract. Prolonged skin contact might cause mild irritation. Eye contact is likely to cause irritation. Ingestion in small amounts, up to a tablespoon, are not likely to cause injury. In other words, it's not unlike just about every other item sitting around in your house.

No one should rely solely on my word. Read the MSDS yourselves. MSDS are relied upon by professionals in all fields as a quick resource to find out about a particular product. MSDS are legally mandated for industry, not for consumers, but just about everything can be found online. Let Google do the heavy lifting here. Usually an MSDS is just a couple pages, so you don't need to be a rocket scientist to figure it out. My experience is in the US, but the EU has something similar.

Bottom line: Everything mentioned here is safe for your knife. Wipe it off when you're done, don't worry, be happy.

[Monty]

I didn't read the whole thread so maybe this has been suggested...

If all else fails find a gun shop that does ultrasonic cleaning. A few minutes will have everything out.

[Toucan]

If you want to be pedantic, fine. By heavy metals I mean things like cadmium and lead, which are not uncommon in industrial applications.

Although I quoted you, my rebuttal wasn't intended for you, but for the hundreds of other people who might be reading, who might come away with an irrational fear of everyday, mundane products. My goal is to inform people that there is no need to be scared of everyday products such as a squirt-can of oil, despite what Eyewitness News and the Village Voice have to say.

To be crystal clear, none of the suggestions made in this thread contain cadmium or lead. PB Blaster was specifically mentioned by as being questionable, so I looked up the Material Data Safety Sheet. The key takeaways are that there is nothing unusual about the product (including no heavy metals). Inhalation might cause irritation of the respiratory tract. Prolonged skin contact might cause mild irritation. Eye contact is likely to cause irritation. Ingestion in small amounts, up to a tablespoon, are not likely to cause injury. In other words, it's not unlike just about every other item sitting around in your house.

No one should rely solely on my word. Read the MSDS yourselves. MSDS are relied upon by professionals in all fields as a quick resource to find out about a particular product. MSDS are legally mandated for industry, not for consumers, but just about everything can be found online. Let Google do the heavy lifting here. Usually an MSDS is just a couple pages, so you don't need to be a rocket scientist to figure it out. My experience is in the US, but the EU has something similar.

Bottom line: Everything mentioned here is safe for your knife. Wipe it off when you're done, don't worry, be happy.

I take a broader approach with this. Sure, safety data sheets listing hazardous materials are a good start, but even formerly "safe" materials for food are now being reevaluated as dangerous.

Something as ubiquitous as a water bottle contains endocrine disrupting compounds like phthalates and bisphenols that are now being phased out. This was a product considered so safe it was practically inert. Every month toys for children made from ostensibly safe materials get recalled because somewhere in the supply chain some heavy metals contaminated the materials. That's not to say I'm scared of water bottles and toys. Just pointing out that if those products, which are held to a much higher degree of scrutiny for purity and safety, still have issues with newly-known-to-be hazardous chemicals, or mysterious heavy metal contamination, it is fair to say that the issue applies to hazardous industrial chemicals not remotely meant for consumption even more so. Especially considering the comparatively little amount of research as to the hazards of long term ingestion of these various chemicals in trace quantities. Who knows the long term effect of consuming trace amounts of the various petroleum products in 3-in-one, or any of the ingredients not yet deemed hazardous?

Brake cleaner was suggested on this thread, and it stands out to me as especially bad. Within my lifetime brake cleaner contained benzene. Holy cow, you do not want to ingest that stuff in any quantity. It's gone from consumer grade stuff now, but modern brake cleaners now contain various organochlorides that I am also not keen to consume in any quantity.

I'm not saying any of these products will kill anyone or immediately give them cancer. Just that I'm not gonna slather known carcinogens or potentially hazardous compounds on my food prep tools.

This isn't to fearmonger, be blindly afraid of any chemical with a long name (food safe mineral oil is after all, some sort of petroleum distillate ), or get people afraid of their drinking water. Just to say, if known safer alternatives exist, why not use them?

As you said, everyone is free to look into the issue and choose as they please. I choose an abundance of caution.

[Bloke]

Six extra holes adjacent the pivot to allow for ingress of all sorts of shite.

The price you pay for choice of clip placement.

[Doc Dan]

Try this: Get some old fashioned white toothpaste. Fill the knife pivot and lock area with it and work the blade, lock bar in contact with the tang. Work it, fill with more paste, and work it some more. No water. It should feel very rough and gritty. After a hundred or so openings and closings, rinse out the knife really well and oil it. It will likely be like butter, after all of that.

[Wartstein]

..

Six extra holes adjacent the pivot to allow for ingress of all sorts of shite.

The price you pay for choice of clip placement.

True, but only for tip DOWN.
If a tip UP option is added (to a tip down option), this is no problem imho cause the holes for tip up are pretty much on the other side of the handle as the pivot is

Anyway, would be not too hard to seal holes for the clip screws in whatever way (even with shortened clip screws).
But the additional holes for tip down (always unsealed on my Spydies, cause I always carry tip up) so far did not cause any issues for me (exept perhaps now with this ss Endura)

[metaphoricalsimile]

All I can say is that if the knife is ever gonna touch food, I wouldn't use anything with gnarly solvents, toxic petroleum distillates, heavy metals, etc. You get what I mean. Those things leave residue that you can probably never fully remove.

If you go the hot soapy water route, which is generally what I do, you can swish the knife in 90% rubbing alcohol afterwards and it will mix with all the water left in the nooks and crannies and evaporate more readily. I dry my knife off as best I can, give it a few shakes, and leave it by a desk fan to dry. Afterwards a few drops of food safe mineral oil (I use a toothpick to apply it.)

I've never not been able to remove grit with just hot soapy water and some swishing/ moving the blade back and forth. The tooth paste idea is interesting. While we're on the topic of oral health supplies as knife cleaners, you might be able to use a water flosser to blast out debris too. Never tried it, but why not?

Do you have a source on your claim about the chemicals leaving a residue, because as a chemist I have big doubts.

[Toucan]

All I can say is that if the knife is ever gonna touch food, I wouldn't use anything with gnarly solvents, toxic petroleum distillates, heavy metals, etc. You get what I mean. Those things leave residue that you can probably never fully remove.

If you go the hot soapy water route, which is generally what I do, you can swish the knife in 90% rubbing alcohol afterwards and it will mix with all the water left in the nooks and crannies and evaporate more readily. I dry my knife off as best I can, give it a few shakes, and leave it by a desk fan to dry. Afterwards a few drops of food safe mineral oil (I use a toothpick to apply it.)

I've never not been able to remove grit with just hot soapy water and some swishing/ moving the blade back and forth. The tooth paste idea is interesting. While we're on the topic of oral health supplies as knife cleaners, you might be able to use a water flosser to blast out debris too. Never tried it, but why not?

Do you have a source on your claim about the chemicals leaving a residue, because as a chemist I have big doubts.

For the petroleum distillates, it should be self evident. Oil sticks to metal well. When I have 3-in-one on my knife the smell lingers forever, even after repeated washings.

As for the solvents, the best I can do is say that the organocholrides like tetrachloroethylene are used in dry cleaning as well as in the suggested brake cleaner. That stuff has been shown to persist in dry cleaned clothes for weeks despite supposedly evaporating so readily. I realize smooth metal and the porous structure of fabric will be very different. But I still feel like it's worth considering. Most of the research about residual solvents I am familiar with is with pharmaceutical production. Again, a smooth metal substrate will be more conducive to evaporation than powders and waxes. Still, it is enough for me to just not bother, again, out of an abundance of caution. If someone slathers these various products on a steel blank and demonstrates that petroleum distillates wash of readily, and that the solvents evaporate completely (and don't deposit any contaminates), I would probably use these products. That research seems unlikely to be done. So I'll just use less effective, but known to be safe alternatives.