Where are the LBK’s?

[JRinFL]

I have 3 Dflys and the Wharncliffe is my favorite. To your point what’s missing between the PM2, E4, and Millie? It’s not that the Dfly or other existing LBKs aren’t baller, it’s that there is little focus on adding to designs in that footprint. Maybe they don’t sell as well? The last cool new LBK was the McBee and it was too small for my use, almost in the Ladybug category

To be honest, I don’t see much utility in having so many models. Spyderco must know what they’re doing but I can’t think of other industries where the portfolios are so crowded.

Tools, firearms, clothing, foods, shoes, and I'm sure there are some I have overlooked. Case Knives, Buck Knives, Benchmade, AG Russell, Bark River, CRKT, Kershaw, and Tops all have large portfolios.

Sal and Eric both like pocket knives, that's why they design so many.

[Evil D]

Guys will overcomplicate anything. Go walk down the hammer aisle at Home Depot, you'd think something as simple as pounding on nails would only require one basic hammer design but it's as diverse as pocket knives, and despite the fact that they all get the core job done in more or less the same exact way, those who use them are happy to have options and will pay for small performance differences that the rest of society don't even see.

[Mushroom]

What kind of innovation? Spyderco already makes really compelling small knives, the Dragonfly and Chaparral models. The latter is one of the better knives Spyderco has ever made. The Ambitious is also still around, though I doubt many people still care.

I know the enthusiasts want a never ending explosion of new models. I can’t really put my finger on what is missing between the Dfly and Chap. Maybe a flipper? Obviously a Chap SE would thrill a lot of us.

I have 3 Dflys and the Wharncliffe is my favorite. To your point what’s missing between the PM2, E4, and Millie? It’s not that the Dfly or other existing LBKs aren’t baller, it’s that there is little focus on adding to designs in that footprint. Maybe they don’t sell as well? The last cool new LBK was the McBee and it was too small for my use, almost in the Ladybug category

I would say the last LBK we got was the Pochi and it was also a flipper. There is endless innovation left in pretty much all sizes of knives.

How are we defining LBK these days? To me it was always about a knife that needs a finger choil to give you a full grip, meaning you can't really grip it properly behind the choil. Even if that's how we classify them, there's a range of sizes within that description, like a Dfly vs a Caly 3. Is the Para 3 one? Native 5? Lil Native?

I agree that there needs to be a some sort of objective definition for it. Leaving it subjective leaves too much room for unnecessary disagreement. We’ll almost certainly get people calling knives like the Pacific Salt an LBK, when in all reality it’s just not. I don’t think it has anything to do with a choil either though. The Ladybug and Manbug are two of the most prominent little big knives now and they don’t have choils.

When I first heard the term Little Big Knife, I seem to recall Spyderco using the term to describe small knives that are designed in a way to provide the utility of a big knife. (I also seem to remember it being a phrase that was proprietary to Spyderco until other companies started hijacking it for themselves but that’s beside the point lol)

In my opinion, anything that’s about 3” or larger is not a Little Big Knife. The Delica is not a little big knife, these days it is an average sized knife. I don’t consider the Native 5 to be a little big knife either but the Lil Native is definitely a little big knife. (Not because of the name but because of the size.) Para 3 is also not a little big knife because of the size, in my opinion.

[PWork]

In my opinion, anything that’s about 3” or larger is not a Little Big Knife. The Delica is not a little big knife, these days it is an average sized knife. I don’t consider the Native 5 to be a little big knife either but the Lil Native is definitely a little big knife. (Not because of the name but because of the size.) Para 3 is also not a little big knife because of the size, in my opinion.

Agreed.

[JRinFL]

What kind of innovation? Spyderco already makes really compelling small knives, the Dragonfly and Chaparral models. The latter is one of the better knives Spyderco has ever made. The Ambitious is also still around, though I doubt many people still care.

I know the enthusiasts want a never ending explosion of new models. I can’t really put my finger on what is missing between the Dfly and Chap. Maybe a flipper? Obviously a Chap SE would thrill a lot of us.

I have 3 Dflys and the Wharncliffe is my favorite. To your point what’s missing between the PM2, E4, and Millie? It’s not that the Dfly or other existing LBKs aren’t baller, it’s that there is little focus on adding to designs in that footprint. Maybe they don’t sell as well? The last cool new LBK was the McBee and it was too small for my use, almost in the Ladybug category

I would say the last LBK we got was the Pochi and it was also a flipper. There is endless innovation left in pretty much all sizes of knives.

How are we defining LBK these days? To me it was always about a knife that needs a finger choil to give you a full grip, meaning you can't really grip it properly behind the choil. Even if that's how we classify them, there's a range of sizes within that description, like a Dfly vs a Caly 3. Is the Para 3 one? Native 5? Lil Native?

I agree that there needs to be a some sort of objective definition for it. Leaving it subjective leaves too much room for unnecessary disagreement. We’ll almost certainly get people calling knives like the Pacific Salt an LBK, when in all reality it’s just not. I don’t think it has anything to do with a choil either though. The Ladybug and Manbug are two of the most prominent little big knives now and they don’t have choils.

When I first heard the term Little Big Knife, I seem to recall Spyderco using the term to describe small knives that are designed in a way to provide the utility of a big knife. (I also seem to remember it being a phrase that was proprietary to Spyderco until other companies started hijacking it for themselves but that’s beside the point lol)

In my opinion, anything that’s about 3” or larger is not a Little Big Knife. The Delica is not a little big knife, these days it is an average sized knife. I don’t consider the Native 5 to be a little big knife either but the Lil Native is definitely a little big knife. (Not because of the name but because of the size.) Para 3 is also not a little big knife because of the size, in my opinion.

I also agree.

[Ramonade]

The Tatanka is my favorite LBK !


Otherwise, a Centofante 4 type blade in something with the footprint of the chapparal would be nice

[Eli Chaps]

Bring back the Kiwi in 20CV or even clad SG2.

[tonijedi]

In my opinion, anything that’s about 3” or larger is not a Little Big Knife. The Delica is not a little big knife, these days it is an average sized knife. I don’t consider the Native 5 to be a little big knife either but the Lil Native is definitely a little big knife. (Not because of the name but because of the size.) Para 3 is also not a little big knife because of the size, in my opinion.

Agreed.

Me too.

[Wartstein]

The Tatanka is my favorite LBK !


Otherwise, a Centofante 4 type blade in something with the footprint of the chapparal would be nice

You mean by that wharnie-shape or sabre hollow grind or both?
Bladestockwise the Chap is as thin as the Centofante already (2mm)... so would a Wharnie Chap (still ffg) do it for you? (Man, I would love this! Just imagine the slicey Chap blade as a wharnie, and of course in SE... )

[Wartstein]

In my opinion, anything that’s about 3” or larger is not a Little Big Knife. The Delica is not a little big knife, these days it is an average sized knife. I don’t consider the Native 5 to be a little big knife either but the Lil Native is definitely a little big knife. (Not because of the name but because of the size.) Para 3 is also not a little big knife because of the size, in my opinion.

Agreed.

Me too.

Dis- agreed. ... (and wait till Vivi chimes in... )
.. but just concerning my personal size categorizations. you could be very well right when talking about what people usually tend to carry these days.

[Mushroom]

In my opinion, anything that’s about 3” or larger is not a Little Big Knife. The Delica is not a little big knife, these days it is an average sized knife. I don’t consider the Native 5 to be a little big knife either but the Lil Native is definitely a little big knife. (Not because of the name but because of the size.) Para 3 is also not a little big knife because of the size, in my opinion.

Agreed.

Me too.

Dis- agreed. ... (and wait till Vivi chimes in... )
.. but just concerning my personal size categorizations. you could be very well right when talking about what people usually tend to carry these days.

Yeah this is exactly why I feel like there needs to be an objective definition for what makes a little big knife and personal preference should not have any effect on that definition.

You can call the Police 4 a little big knife if you want but you’re wrong. When it comes down to reality, it’s just not a little big knife.

[tonijedi]

Agreed.

Me too.

Dis- agreed. ... (and wait till Vivi chimes in... )
.. but just concerning my personal size categorizations. you could be very well right when talking about what people usually tend to carry these days.

Yeah this is exactly why I feel like there needs to be an objective definition for what makes a little big knife and your personal preference should not have any effect on that definition.

Traditional SAKs and traditional slip joints have the size of a Delica. That's the "normal" pocket knife. I'm not saying other sizes are abnormal, just that they aren't the size that historically a pocket knife has. Sure there are people with much larger hands than average that require a bigger knife, or specific jobs or activities that are better done with a larger knife. But the average Joe carrying a knife in his pocket (fewer and fewer are) will have a knife as long as the diameter of the usual apple on his location.

[Wartstein]

Dis- agreed. ... (and wait till Vivi chimes in... )
.. but just concerning my personal size categorizations. you could be very well right when talking about what people usually tend to carry these days.

Yeah this is exactly why I feel like there needs to be an objective definition for what makes a little big knife and your personal preference should not have any effect on that definition.

100 % agreed, even more so since everyone could still choose to have their own subjective definitions just for themselves, but there´d be an "objective" one that would make discussions easier!

But how to start?

1.) Finding the exact average blade-/handle-/overall size of all current Spydies / all Spydies that aver existed and define a percentage of that size where "LBK" starts (so let´s say 65% and less of the average size is a "LBK")?

2.)Or a knife is a "LBK" when an individuum with average sized hands could not get a four finger grip on the actual handle, but it offers 1) just a three (or less) finger grip and/or b) a choil is mandatory to offer space for four fingers?

1.) Is also what can or even does already define a subjective, personal definition.
When for example I look at the average cutting edge length of all Spydies I own right now, the Delica would certainly be a "LBK", and even the Manix would.

[James Y]

To me, a LBK in terms of Spydercos is Dragonfly or smaller. IMO, the UKPK, Delica, etc., are not LBKs, they are medium-sized. Compared to most old-school pocketknives, a Delica-sized blade would actually be considered large. I’ve read comments elsewhere, where some people said the Delica felt surprisingly big to them, because they were used to carrying old-school pen knives.

I may try a Manbug someday. Not sure if I’d prefer the regular or the Wharncliffe version, but at that size, I’d probably choose the latter. I have an old Cold Steel mini-knife (forgot the name) that is FFG but has a drop point with a very upswept edge belly that makes a blade that tiny less practical, IMO.

Jim

[Ramonade]

The Tatanka is my favorite LBK !


Otherwise, a Centofante 4 type blade in something with the footprint of the chapparal would be nice

You mean by that wharnie-shape or sabre hollow grind or both?
Bladestockwise the Chap is as thin as the Centofante already (2mm)... so would a Wharnie Chap (still ffg) do it for you? (Man, I would love this! Just imagine the slicey Chap blade as a wharnie, and of course in SE... )

I meant both ! But it's a bit much maybe for that kind of bladestock.

A wharnie chap would do it, in fact ! A slightly concave grind on top of this would be an absolute win .
Another option : I remember reading on this forum that a leaf shape blade is cool just for the fact that you can make it a wharncliffe yourself. You'd just lose a lot of thinness behind the edge doing so.

[Wartstein]

... But the average Joe carrying a knife in his pocket (fewer and fewer are) will have a knife as long as the diameter of the usual apple on his location.

So this would be Endura-country... (I know, I know, just a very weak attempt to be like Bloke )

[Mushroom]

Dis- agreed. ... (and wait till Vivi chimes in... )
.. but just concerning my personal size categorizations. you could be very well right when talking about what people usually tend to carry these days.

Yeah this is exactly why I feel like there needs to be an objective definition for what makes a little big knife and your personal preference should not have any effect on that definition.

100 % agreed, even more so since everyone could still choose to have their own subjective definitions just for themselves, but there´d be an "objective" one that would make discussions easier!

But how to start?

1.) Finding the exact average blade-/handle-/overall size of all current Spydies / all Spydies that aver existed and define a percentage of that size where "LBK" starts (so let´s say 65% and less of the average size is a "LBK")?

2.)Or a knife is a "LBK" when an individuum with average sized hands could not get a four finger grip on the actual handle, but it offers 1) just a three (or less) finger grip and/or b) a choil is mandatory to offer space for four fingers?

1.) Is also what can or even does already define a subjective, personal definition.
When for example I look at the average cutting edge length of all Spydies I own right now, the Delica would certainly be a "LBK", and even the Manix would.

I can already tell this isn’t going anywhere. I don’t know why you insist on making every discussion strictly about your personal opinion and preferences. So for you, you can have any definition for any word you want! Have fun.

[Wartstein]

Dis- agreed. ... (and wait till Vivi chimes in... )
.. but just concerning my personal size categorizations. you could be very well right when talking about what people usually tend to carry these days.

Yeah this is exactly why I feel like there needs to be an objective definition for what makes a little big knife and your personal preference should not have any effect on that definition.

100 % agreed, even more so since everyone could still choose to have their own subjective definitions just for themselves, but there´d be an "objective" one that would make discussions easier!

But how to start?

1.) Finding the exact average blade-/handle-/overall size of all current Spydies / all Spydies that aver existed and define a percentage of that size where "LBK" starts (so let´s say 65% and less of the average size is a "LBK")?

2.)Or a knife is a "LBK" when an individuum with average sized hands could not get a four finger grip on the actual handle, but it offers 1) just a three (or less) finger grip and/or b) a choil is mandatory to offer space for four fingers?

1.) Is also what can or even does already define a subjective, personal definition.
When for example I look at the average cutting edge length of all Spydies I own right now, the Delica would certainly be a "LBK", and even the Manix would.

I can already tell this isn’t going anywhere. I don’t know why you insist on making every discussion strictly about your personal opinion and preferences. So for you, you can have any definition for any word you want! Have fun.

I honestly have no idea what you mean...?!

- In my first post I clearly stated that I certainly share your opinion that a Delica is NOT an "LBK" objectively these days
- In my second post I literally agreed to YOUR opinion, found your input a very valid one and was thinking about ways how it could be implementet... ?
- Funny, that it is not "strictly about YOUR personal opinion and preferences" when YOU share it in discussions here...

No need to get nasty, my friend. Shiny footprints and so on, you know?

[ZrowsN1s]

LBK in my mind would definitely include Dragonfly, Lil Native, Urban, and Techno.

I think the Lil P'kal also would fit this definition.

And depending on whether you think a full size handle disqualifies a little knife, the Karahawk (2.5inch blade) and Dodo might fit that definition as well. (Maybe it's more appropriate to call those Big Little Knives)

[Mushroom]

Yeah this is exactly why I feel like there needs to be an objective definition for what makes a little big knife and your personal preference should not have any effect on that definition.

100 % agreed, even more so since everyone could still choose to have their own subjective definitions just for themselves, but there´d be an "objective" one that would make discussions easier!

But how to start?

1.) Finding the exact average blade-/handle-/overall size of all current Spydies / all Spydies that aver existed and define a percentage of that size where "LBK" starts (so let´s say 65% and less of the average size is a "LBK")?

2.)Or a knife is a "LBK" when an individuum with average sized hands could not get a four finger grip on the actual handle, but it offers 1) just a three (or less) finger grip and/or b) a choil is mandatory to offer space for four fingers?

1.) Is also what can or even does already define a subjective, personal definition.
When for example I look at the average cutting edge length of all Spydies I own right now, the Delica would certainly be a "LBK", and even the Manix would.

I can already tell this isn’t going anywhere. I don’t know why you insist on making every discussion strictly about your personal opinion and preferences. So for you, you can have any definition for any word you want! Have fun.

I honestly have no idea what you mean...?!

- In my first post I clearly stated that I certainly share your opinion that a Delica is NOT an "LBK" objectively these days
- In my second post I literally agreed to YOUR opinion, found your input a very valid one and was thinking about ways how it could be implementet... ?
- Funny, that it is not "strictly about YOUR personal opinion and preferences" when YOU share it in discussions here...

No need to get nasty, my friend. Shiny footprints and so on, you know?

I don’t think it should determined by each individual user. Hand size is irrelevant to the definition of Little Big Knife. It should be determined by the size and design of the knife itself. I’m not saying you can’t consider certain knives to be small but I am saying that does not automatically make them “little big knives.”

When it comes down to it, the phrase is pretty much just marketing. I guess it can mean whatever you want it to mean but then the phrase itself just becomes saturated and worthless. I would even guess that is why Spyderco stopped using it as frequently as they used to, because other companies started stealing it and they probably caused too much confusion as to what it actually meant.