Sharpening/honing suggestions

[damiand]

Hello

I have bought a Chaparral knife, I am very proud of my purchase, however I have some doubts with the sharpening/honing.

This video was the only one that clarified me how to sharpen Spyderco pocket knifes:

https://youtu.be/4zDYzTJZT8k

I bought the Triangle sharpmaker due to my inexperience with sharpening/honing. I was told that I wouldn't need a honing rod because Sharpmaker does it all. It's still hard for me to understand why I don't need to buy honing rod if honing is recommended everywhere after each use. And how the Sharpmaker would do this job?

The questions then are:

- What exactly is honing (push back the edge of the knife to the center?)? I will use all the cutting edge, but not very much the tip (I will use my Chaparral to cut cardboard), so I also wonder if this is necessary in my case

- if honing necessary (maybe in other types of applications), how does the Sharpmaker hone my knife? Changing the degree setting? Is there video for that?

- What degree setting should I use every time I want to sharpen my knife?

- How much pressure should I do for each stroke? What if I press too hard? Will the stone break?

- What is the lifespan of a Triangle Sharpmaker?

- How can I fix the geometry (make the blade thinner behind the edge?). (The video does not explain this). I will do this every 50 sharpenings as suggested.

I am a newbie and have never sharpened knives before. Spyderco Chaparral will be the first that I am going to sharpen so I appreciate any other advice.

[sal]

Hi Damiand,

There is an instructional video that comes with the Sharpmaker that should answer most of your questions, Did you get a video with your Sharpmaker?

sal

[hereiamu1]

Here are links to Youtube 4 part

1 https://youtu.be/GB0r6GvESGg

2 https://youtu.be/fP9Uc3ZM24Y

3 https://youtu.be/wAu1b9N4oC0

4 https://youtu.be/HB1iw4iFUqA

[damiand]

Hi Damiand,

There is an instructional video that comes with the Sharpmaker that should answer most of your questions, Did you get a video with your Sharpmaker?

sal

Hello friends.

I appreciate your recommendations to watch the video. As I mentioned, the video was not very helpful, I can watch it again but I would like to hear answers to specific questions.

[Wartstein]

...

This video was the only one that clarified me how to sharpen Spyderco pocket knifes:
https://youtu.be/4zDYzTJZT8k
....

The questions then are:

Hi Damiand,

There is an instructional video that comes with the Sharpmaker that should answer most of your questions, Did you get a video with your Sharpmaker?

Damiand, to be honest I am not entirely sure what you are after here:

You say that "this [the knife center vid] is the only one that clarified me how to sharpen Spyderco pocket knives"

This despite you already started a thread about this just a few days ago.

And in that thread I literally linked the sharpmaker instructional dvd ( that Sal mentions ) for you - (see my post here viewtopic.php?f=2&t=91366&p=1582673#p1582799), and highly recommended watching it thoroughly (others did so too).

So please go watch it indeed and don´t say this knife center vid would be the only one "that clarified how to sharpen Spyderco pocket knives".

Plus, many of your questions were already answered in that first thread you started (and this quite extensively)

[Airlsee]

I appreciate the depth of your questions because they are all valid and in pursuit of the right answers, but what is troubling is either your lack of comprehension, out-right dismissal, or misrepresentation of the information presented before you.

Please, just click here for your answers...

If there is some sort of communication barrier, please elaborate. Otherwise, it appears that you just like making threads without really being interested in any solutions that are not unique to you.

[Wartstein]

Hello

I have bought a Chaparral knife, I am very proud of my purchase, however I have some doubts with the sharpening/honing.

...

Added to my post above:

Though I am a bit puzzled that you actually act as if you never started and read your own previous thread (again, here viewtopic.php?f=2&t=91366&p=1582673#p1582673) and the replies there, I´ll try to answer some of your questions (again..):

- Honing
If you give the edge a few passes on the white rods (or the brown, if you prefer a coarser edge) before the knife has really lost sharpness significally, that is all the "honing" you need to do in my experience.

- Pressure on the stones
Again, this has already been adressed in your previous thread....
Use light pressure, not much more than the weight of the blade will apply anyway, and especially light on the last few strokes
And no , you can´t break the sharpmaker rods just by pressure, or if you´d ever manage to do so the pressure would be like 100 times harder than needed... (sharpmaker rods CAN break though if you drop them on a hard floor or then like)

- "What degree"
Also answered already, but again; As a beginner just use the 40 degree setting. It will give you a very robust working edge on your XHP Chap and it will get is sharp quickly given how the Chap comes from the factory.

- "Fix" the geometry / thin out behind the edge"
Answered already and explained in the sharpmaker dvd: As a beginner just use the 30 degree setting from time to time to thin out the blade behind the edge a bit (cause, as I explained already, with many sharpenings the edge will "work its way up the blade", and the blade itself gets thicker closer to the spine).

- "Lifespan of the sharpmaker"
I guess you mean the rods here. The whites will last you about forever, the brown (grey) ones will very slowly get less effective (or less coarse).
Cleaning your rods frequently is key anyway to make sure they cut well.

And don´t overthink this all! Just use and sharpen your knife on the sharpmaker, you will learn by doing

Or, as I also suggested before: If you are really that afraid, practice on a cheaper knife (Byrd Meadowlark would be a great and very well performing choice for that)

[JD Spydo]

I tell everyone who gets a Spyderco 204 Sharpmaker kit to also get all the extra stones you can buy for it. Yeah it costs a few dollars but after you start maintaining all of the knives in your home you'll find it's well worth it over the long haul. There is just so much more you can do if you have the diamond, Ultra-Fine, CBN stones to go with your "medium & fine" that come with the kit. You also might get an extra set of medium over time as well. Because I generally wear out my medium rods within a year to 16 months. Yeah I use it that much.

[Wartstein]

I tell everyone who gets a Spyderco 204 Sharpmaker kit to also get all the extra stones you can buy for it. Yeah it costs a few dollars but after you start maintaining all of the knives in your home you'll find it's well worth it over the long haul. There is just so much more you can do if you have the diamond, Ultra-Fine, CBN stones to go with your "medium & fine" that come with the kit. You also might get an extra set of medium over time as well. Because I generally wear out my medium rods within a year to 16 months. Yeah I use it that much.

That´s quite fast!
Can you somehow quantify HOW much one has to use the brown rods in order to wear them that quickly? (Of course it also depends on the point when one considers them wo be "worn" - this point will be different from person to person).

And I´d be interested in how important you really find the ultra fine rods. I actually never felt like I needed those (but certainly do appreciate having the "opposite pole" (CBN).
Of course I am not a world class sharpener at all, and prefer coarser edges anyway, so that might be the reason why I never missed UF rods.

[damiand]

Hello

I have bought a Chaparral knife, I am very proud of my purchase, however I have some doubts with the sharpening/honing.

...

Added to my post above:

Though I am a bit puzzled that you actually act as if you never started and read your own previous thread (again, here viewtopic.php?f=2&t=91366&p=1582673#p1582673) and the replies there, I´ll try to answer some of your questions (again..):

- Honing
If you give the edge a few passes on the white rods (or the brown, if you prefer a coarser edge) before the knife has really lost sharpness significally, that is all the "honing" you need to do in my experience.

- Pressure on the stones
Again, this has already been adressed in your previous thread....
Use light pressure, not much more than the weight of the blade will apply anyway, and especially light on the last few strokes
And no , you can´t break the sharpmaker rods just by pressure, or if you´d ever manage to do so the pressure would be like 100 times harder than needed... (sharpmaker rods CAN break though if you drop them on a hard floor or then like)

- "What degree"
Also answered already, but again; As a beginner just use the 40 degree setting. It will give you a very robust working edge on your XHP Chap and it will get is sharp quickly given how the Chap comes from the factory.

- "Fix" the geometry / thin out behind the edge"
Answered already and explained in the sharpmaker dvd: As a beginner just use the 30 degree setting from time to time to thin out the blade behind the edge a bit (cause, as I explained already, with many sharpenings the edge will "work its way up the blade", and the blade itself gets thicker closer to the spine).

- "Lifespan of the sharpmaker"
I guess you mean the rods here. The whites will last you about forever, the brown (grey) ones will very slowly get less effective (or less coarse).
Cleaning your rods frequently is key anyway to make sure they cut well.

And don´t overthink this all! Just use and sharpen your knife on the sharpmaker, you will learn by doing

Or, as I also suggested before: If you are really that afraid, practice on a cheaper knife (Byrd Meadowlark would be a great and very well performing choice for that)

Hi,

Every time I want to fix the geometry, will it be ok to do 20 strokes on each side with the 40 degree setting? Using first the brown stones and then the fine stones correct? (Just like sharpening)? Doing it once will be ok? Or will I have to do it several times? Is it relative? Maybe I should look at how my knife's blade came from the factory for a reference?

And, I must always do it in this order: brown stones, then white stones, correct? I can't skip any?

I want a cutting edge identical to the one my Chaparral came by default. I don't want it to be thicker or thinner behind the edge. If I forget something please let me know.

I'll watch the video again, but I'd like to hear your advice too.

Thanks for the patience.

[sal]

Hi Damiand,

My suggestion would be to not worry about "fixng" the geometry of the edge at this point in your learning process. Sharpen your knife as mentioned. You don't need to do all processes unless the knife is really dull. the 20 strokes is just a guideline to help you learn about sharpening the edge.

I keep my knives quite sharp, shaving arm hair sharp. I use the corner of the White stone most of the time at 30 degrees, maybe a half dozen strokes on the 40 degree just to keep the edge crisp until the 30 degree angle is profiled all the way to the edge.

If you really want to learn about the edge, which is a ghost, get a magnifying loupe, about 10x - 12X and study the edge up close while you are sharpening so you can "see" what's happening on the edge. Folks here can be a big help. It's not a quick learning curve. re-arranging the geometry of an edge requires a fairly high degree of understanding about edges.

The original edge that comes with the knife was done by an expert on a power machine, or by a robot. I don't think you're there yet. Study and learn, once understood, you will be able to answer your own questions

sal

[Tallastro]

You can also work with a cheap kitchen knife to learn and experiment rather than the nice new Chaparral. The harder steel will work a bit slower but I find that comforting. I'm not removing too much of my expensive steel.

And as a bonus: you'll end up with nice sharp kitchen knives.

[Wartstein]

Hi,

Every time I want to fix the geometry, will it be ok to do 20 strokes on each side with the 40 degree setting? Using first the brown stones and then the fine stones correct? (Just like sharpening)? Doing it once will be ok? Or will I have to do it several times? Is it relative? Maybe I should look at how my knife's blade came from the factory for a reference?

And, I must always do it in this order: brown stones, then white stones, correct? I can't skip any?

I want a cutting edge identical to the one my Chaparral came by default. I don't want it to be thicker or thinner behind the edge. If I forget something please let me know.

I'll watch the video again, but I'd like to hear your advice too.

Thanks for the patience.

No worries concerning my patience, I am glad if I can help, just like I was helped by many good folks on this forum many times.

I think though you´ve got the wrong impression how sharpening works. It is not necessarily a simple, for-all-the-same standardized process, not like learning if a leaver needs to be pushed up or down, and that´s it.

You should know that Sal and many, many others here on this forum are much better and know a ton more about sharpening than I do and still he says "the edge is a ghost". Meaning for me for example, that there are many variables that come into play, so fine details in the sharpening process that can´t be 100% explained and let alone be replicated in the exact same manner by every individual person.
For me (and again, I am at best intermediate when it comes to sharpening!) the edge is somehow a "living" thing, in the sense that it can´t be always the exact same, it changes during the lifespan of a knife, not only by getting less sharp in use, but even more so by how exactly it gets sharpened up each time again. These differences are often deliberately, for example one time you´ll want a coarser edge, the next time a polished one, one time you´ll give it a steeper angle, next time you apply a microbevel for quickness of sharpening and a bit more edge stability.
Trying to keep the edge and thickness behind it exactly "how it came from the factory by default" will not work, especially not for a beginner, and is not even necessarily desireable.
What WILL work with the sharpmaker is that you always have a good, useful edge to work with!

You´ll just have to try out for yourself what works best for you, but just following the steps shown on the sharpmaker dvd is a good start and you can´t go wrong with it! The tips already given here and in your other thread are all good too!

[Wartstein]

...
I'll watch the video again, but I'd like to hear your advice too.
....

Still, to your questions (but remember: Take it easy, don´t worry too much and just try for yourself! You´ll learn quickly and not "ruin" your Chap in the process. And once more: IF you are worried, just practice a bit on a cheap(er) knife)

- You don´t have to "fix the geometry".
There is not one single "correct geometry" you need to maintain.
And IF you want to improve the slicing aspect of the geometry by making then knife thinner behind the edge, it is the 30 degree setting you use, not the 40.
The 40 setting will hit the very edge / apex on any Spyderco you buy (in my experience), and will make it sharp again very quick.
The 30 degree setting will in many cases "just" hit the blade a bit above the very edge (on its shoulders or even higher up) on a Spyderco coming from the factoryand by that make the blade behind / above the edge thinner, which is desireable, especially after many sharpenings.

- For just quickly making your knife sharp again, use the 40 degree setting.
And no, you don´t have to follow all the steps mandatorily, certainly not if you don´t let your knife get dull in the first place.
Just try and give it some passes on the corners of the white stone quite frequently, if after that it is not as sharp as you´d like it give it some more, and if that does not work perhaps start the whole process shown on the sharpmaker dvd.

- The key is: Just try for yourself. And don´t worry too much!
You might for example find out over time that for your line of work a coarser edge works better, and only use the coarser, brown stones (or even get the even coarser CBN or diamond stones).
You might want to reprofile your blade to 30 degrees (so give it a more acute angle than it probably came from the factory) by using the 30 degree setting and the brown stones till you´re there.
But there is no real right or wrong. And you don´t have just "one single chance to make it right". You can change the edge your knife has whenever you like.

- You could follow Sals advice and get a loupe if you have deeper interest in sharpening (does not need an expensive one, see this thread for example: viewtopic.php?t=82628).
When I started out learning I also liked to use a sharpie and color the edge in order to better see where exactly metal gets removed.

[Ric]

Hello damiand,

Use low pressure.
Let the stone do the work.
For quicker results diamond will speed up the process.

My knives must cut paper clean.
If not I sharpen it. A few passes often are enough.

Try to sharpen often to get muscle memory. Sharpen also cheap kitchen knives for training.
I prefer diamond plates.

Lance Clinton has a super YouTube video about the sharpmaker.

Clean the rods in the dishwasher.

Brown rods will wear (chip, uneven surface).

[sal]

Hi Tallastro,

Welcome to our forum.

sal

[S-3 ranch]

https://youtu.be/Ptmx1iJELhU Is video to save
I saw your other post and if you’re cutting cardboard 300 times a day ?
I personally would carry two knives
1. Vg10 serrated edge a large model like a endela
2 your xhp chap
I am a rancher and know a 1000 &1 ways to dull a edc edge
IMO you will be happier with a larger blade and serrated
For the xhp a daily dose of 1 micron diamond spray on a basswood strop or even a SAK 600 grit diamond steel
Use the sharpmaker as instructed, I am learning more about sharpmaker as I have a salt 2 LC200n and can roll it dull in one day

Practice practice practice on every type of device, there’s no short cut to learning to keep a knife scary sharp

[DrHE]

I have had my original sharp maker since the 80s and it’s still going strong with the same stones! Use it all the time.

[dj moonbat]

One thing to be careful of when following the Sharpmaker instructions: it's possible to form a burr that is robust enough to stay on the knife even when you've pulled it through the hard plastic as Sal demonstrates. This burr will feel pretty sharp if you test it on the pad of your thumb, and will slice bond paper, as long as it isn't bent to one side.

You are *not* trying to get that burr centered. You're trying to knock it off of the edge completely. If you use a honing steel, this process of knocking off the burr consists of dragging the burr backward over and over until it succumbs to metal fatigue. If you use a strop, there's some added grab that can help *pull* the burr off, but it's mostly just metal fatigue again. The late, great Cliff Stamp insisted that all these methods were inferior to just abrading the burr away, using extremely light pressure.

But whichever method you choose, that's honing: getting rid of the burr, and any little imperfections that deburring may have left on the edge. The honing method Spyderco recommends in the video (IIRC) is pulling the burr through the hard plastic of the Sharpmaker's case a few times until it comes off, then doing very light strokes on the fine rods to polish up the resulting edge.

One last thing: your post suggests that you might not be trying to sharpen the entire length of the blade every time you sharpen. If you don't sharpen the whole thing, the geometry of the knife will change--and it may change fairly quickly! And then you'll get spots along the edge where the cutting performance drops by a lot.

[jasonstone20]

damiand,
I would suggest watching a video about the Spyderco Sharpmaker in your native language. Try and not worry about most of the things you are concerned about, as they are not that important when you are just starting out. Just try to keep the knife as sharp as it came from the factory, and use a lubricant on the stones, like water or a light oil. Try and keep your pressure light, and use the Sharpie trick to make sure you are hitting the edge bevel and apex with the stones. The Sharpmaker is pretty foolproof, just use it for a few weeks and then most of the questions you had you will answer them yourself just through use. If you still have questions, feel free to DM me here or email me at jasonstone20@yahoo.com.




Guys, please remember the 'Shiny footprints' concept. When someone is new, and English is not their native language, some things can be lost in translation, even when English is their native language. For instance, I thought for a long time when I was starting to sharpen in the 1990's, that a 'push-cut' was a slice going away from the body, and slice was a cut towards the body. Now of course I know this is wrong now, but I didn't at one time. It is better to be kind than be right. For those of you that already understood and were kind and helpful to damiand, thank you.