Grail/Dream Spyderco EDC

[Saucerito]

Hi All,

I've been a lurker for a little while and decided to finally join the forum. I have a modest Spyderco collection compared to many on here (see Signature) and I'm reaching a point where it's getting hard to justify many more purchases - made even harder with the continuing price increases. Anyways, this post isn't about that - it's about what I would consider (at this point in time) to be my perfect EDC. Obviously there is no such thing and it's a lifelong search but I figured I'd post anyways. Maybe I can look back on this in a couple years and realize that all my wants/needs have changed. I'd also like to hear about everyone else's perfect EDC - for some of you, it may exist already.

We all have different backgrounds and needs for an EDC. We like to complain about features missing on these high end knives, but in reality, they're all great knives. I'll be the first to admit that I don't need more than a couple knives outside the kitchen and I'm generally searching for uses for my knives. I don't have a job that requires a knife very often and I can just as easily fold cardboard boxes flat as I can cut them up (I've started cutting them anyway to use my knives more ).

I've taken my experiences with some of my favorite Spydercos to come up with what I think my grail would be.

• PM2/Sage 5 - Compression Lock: Yes, I admit I enjoy fidgeting with my knives. Beyond that, I don't think I have anything against a good back lock or liner lock. Not a fan of the Ball Bearing lock on the Manix though.

• UKPK Salt and Sage 1/5 - Ergonomics and Blade Shape: I love how these knives feel in the hand as well as the blade shape

• UKPK Salt - Steel: I don't use my knives enough to be able to really tell the difference between different steels. I want something with decent edge holding, fairly easy to sharpen, won't chip, and stainless. I may not need the ultra stainlessness of LC200N but I do live near the coast and I run so I like the peace of mind of not needing to care about saltwater/sweat.

• UKPK Salt and Delica 4 FFG - Blade Thickness/Grind: I like the 2.5mm blades of these knives. Very slicy but don't feel dainty.

• Delica 4 FFG - IWB Carrying: The Delica is the best running knife for anything in the ~3" blade and up range. It just works for me in the tip down position.

• PM2 - Blade Length: I'm usually just fine with a 3" blade as can be seen by many of the knives in my collection. However, I wouldn't mind a little extra blade length if I can get it without sacrificing IWB carry.

• Clip: Not sure. I like the wire clip, but it also lengthens the amount of knife below the clip which may not be good for IWB carry. Could go either way on this.

• Weight: Lighter the better but it doesn't need to be Bugout light. Less than 3oz.

• Scale Material: I like the feel of G10, but I think FRN is going to win out for lightweight and cost. I like the texture of the Sage 5 LW FRN.

• Screw Construction: I want to be able to take the knife apart to clean

With all of that said, I think the future Caly 3.5 LW is speaking to me the most right now. I think it's comparable to the Delica in closed size with just a small bit of added length for a lot of extra blade length and it has the ergonomics of a UKPK/Caly 3. Additions to that base model (or what we know of the base model) that would make it perfect for me include: LC200N Steel, 4 way carry, 2.5mm thick blade, Compression Lock (is this even possible with this model and could it be made with a good action?). Even without these additions, I intend on getting a Caly 3.5 LW whenever it comes out.

What are your thoughts?

[sal]

Hi Saucerito,

Welcome to our forum.

sal

[ZrowsN1s]

Linerless fluted CF Dragonfly Hawkbill PE S90V

[Ramonade]

Really nice first post ! Welcome to the forum Saucerito.

This thread is gonna attract a lot of people even if this subject has been discussed in many occasions.

As of now and if my hobbies and work don't change much, I pretty much now what my perfect edc needs to be.

It would be :
- thin bladestock around 2mm
- a very high blade with FFG or high and deep hollow ground
- lock can be backlockbut native style (or custom backlock quality!). It could also be an inset linerlock with a good access to it
- the blade would have a "safe" spot to let it drop on the finger while unlocking
- between 3 and 3.5" cutting edge.
- handle with simple ergos, maybe an index groove that's all. Made from any long lasting material.
- Liners so scales could be swappable, in order for me to make my own scales.
- steel in the blade, something like vanax (or magnacut once I see how it behaves) or s110v. A good stainless.

[tonijedi]

Must give me an all black MagnaCut Salt 2...

[kobold]

Linerless fluted CF Dragonfly Hawkbill PE S90V

Not bad!

Fluted Ti Chaparral.

[Wartstein]

....

It would be :
- thin bladestock around 2mm
- a very high blade with FFG or high and deep hollow ground
- lock can be backlockbut native style (or custom backlock quality!). It could also be an inset linerlock with a good access to it
- the blade would have a "safe" spot to let it drop on the finger while unlocking
- between 3 and 3.5" cutting edge.
- handle with simple ergos, maybe an index groove that's all. Made from any long lasting material.
- Liners so scales could be swappable, in order for me to make my own scales.
- steel in the blade, something like vanax (or magnacut once I see how it behaves) or s110v. A good stainless.

Except for the XHP steel it sounds like a Chaparral XL could be pretty much what you (and, oh, yes, me too!!) want...

Started several threads about this already, the first one right after I got my Chap FRN - it´s a poll, so you could vote for it, if you like to (and add that you´d prefer a "good stainless steel") - see here:
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=82492&p=1295580#p1295580

Here´s another one of those threads: viewtopic.php?t=85342

[Wartstein]

.....

• PM2/Sage 5 - Compression Lock: Yes, I admit I enjoy fidgeting with my knives. Beyond that, I don't think I have anything against a good back lock or liner lock. Not a fan of the Ball Bearing lock on the Manix though.

• UKPK Salt and Sage 1/5 - Ergonomics and Blade Shape: I love how these knives feel in the hand as well as the blade shape

• UKPK Salt - Steel: I don't use my knives enough to be able to really tell the difference between different steels. I want something with decent edge holding, fairly easy to sharpen, won't chip, and stainless. I may not need the ultra stainlessness of LC200N but I do live near the coast and I run so I like the peace of mind of not needing to care about saltwater/sweat.

• UKPK Salt and Delica 4 FFG - Blade Thickness/Grind: I like the 2.5mm blades of these knives. Very slicy but don't feel dainty.

• Delica 4 FFG - IWB Carrying: The Delica is the best running knife for anything in the ~3" blade and up range. It just works for me in the tip down position.

• PM2 - Blade Length: I'm usually just fine with a 3" blade as can be seen by many of the knives in my collection. However, I wouldn't mind a little extra blade length if I can get it without sacrificing IWB carry.

• Clip: Not sure. I like the wire clip, but it also lengthens the amount of knife below the clip which may not be good for IWB carry. Could go either way on this.

• Weight: Lighter the better but it doesn't need to be Bugout light. Less than 3oz.

• Scale Material: I like the feel of G10, but I think FRN is going to win out for lightweight and cost. I like the texture of the Sage 5 LW FRN.

• Screw Construction: I want to be able to take the knife apart to clean

.....

Welcome to the forum!

Nice list, and great first post!

Some remarks, if I may:

- Yes, the Delica is a great iwb running knife (though I still prefer tip up. There´s still enough knife left below the clip and in the waistband, and the strong backlock won´t open up on me, even when running and carried iwb).
But did you ever consider the Salt 2 ffg (in LC200N)? It pretty much replaced the Chaparral as my iwb running knife.
Essentially a Delica, but even lighter, totally rustproof, a tad more cutting edge, and a bigger thumb hole (not that important, but a bit easier to open with gloves or cold hands) - plus: It comes in ffg, SE and regular blade shape. SE ffg is my preferred edge configuration anyway, but especially in a running knife.

- Not all wire clips "lengthen the amount of knife below the clip" - not all are deep carry/loop over, and it also depends on where exactly the clip is attached on the handle.

- Too bad you don´t like the CBBL and pinned construction: If this was not the case, one of the Manix 2 LW variants could be a great knife for you. Your preferred blade shape, very light and despite having a wire clip not too deep carry. No tip down though, but the handle is long enough that you probably won´t want that necessarily in iwb carry anyway.
What are your issues with the CBBL? If it is that you don´t like the closing method most people use: Here are 5 alternatives to it: viewtopic.php?t=87806#p1459252

[bearfacedkiller]

Excellent first post. Welcome.

The Caly3.5LW definitely sounds like a winner.

I don’t really believe in grails because tastes and needs do change.

If I could have any Spyderco knife it would probably be a Maxamet Military. Have I mentioned that before?

[aicolainen]

Hi Saucerito,
welcome to the forum!

Great list and solid reflections on the topic.

My only observation, already pointed out by Wartstein, is that the Salt 2 FFG seems to make every bit as much sense as a Delica for you.
Personally the Salt 2 doesn’t leave anything to be desired, so I skipped on the regular Delica altogether.
I’m a big fan of the light weight, the ease of maintaining a rustproof and linerless construction and the intuitive and safe operation.

As for my own idea of a grail knife, I’ve become less and less convinced there could be one, the more I understand my own preferences. Like anything, knife choice seems easy at surface level, but the more you dig into it, the more complex it gets. The best I can imagine is a somewhat compact (grail) collection of complementary knives to serve a wide range of use cases.

My preference for EDC is small, slim, capable knives with thin grinds. Deep carry or clipless in pocket. The Dragonfly 2 (without the clip) is so close to my sweet spot, I fail to see what can be be done to out-grail it.

For outdoor and sports I generally prefer light, linerless, rust proof, mid sized folders with simple, safe operation, self closing bias and a somewhat shallow carry. The already mentioned Salt 2 is my overall favorite, but this bucket covers a wide range of activities, so some diversity is warranted.
Though not a grail, I think a really interesting and compelling addition to my collection would be a shortened, slimmed down and thinned out Mini Caribbean.
Same goes for a screw construction Manix LW in MagnaCut. Saltified HW would be a nice bonus, but not required. I say this even as I kind of share your view on the CBBL. It’s one of my least favorite locks to operate, but it’s also very solid, has a closing bias and a very solid and reassuring lockup. That’s enough for me to consider it for some types of use.

I’m sorry I couldn’t really answer the question, but at least I stayed away from the topic of fixed blades so I could keep it short(er).

[Ramonade]

....

It would be :
- thin bladestock around 2mm
- a very high blade with FFG or high and deep hollow ground
- lock can be backlockbut native style (or custom backlock quality!). It could also be an inset linerlock with a good access to it
- the blade would have a "safe" spot to let it drop on the finger while unlocking
- between 3 and 3.5" cutting edge.
- handle with simple ergos, maybe an index groove that's all. Made from any long lasting material.
- Liners so scales could be swappable, in order for me to make my own scales.
- steel in the blade, something like vanax (or magnacut once I see how it behaves) or s110v. A good stainless.

Except for the XHP steel it sounds like a Chaparral XL could be pretty much what you (and, oh, yes, me too!!) want...

Started several threads about this already, the first one right after I got my Chap FRN - it´s a poll, so you could vote for it, if you like to (and add that you´d prefer a "good stainless steel") - see here:
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=82492&p=1295580#p1295580

Here´s another one of those threads: viewtopic.php?t=85342

That's something like it yes ! I thought about the Caly, but even if it is a really good slicer it won't match a Chaparral ^^. XHP is not bad on the stainless side of things, i really like it. If we talk about dream or grail, I'd simply choose another steel !

[JSumm]

Interesting post. And great first post.

Grail Knife definitely does not click with what I look for or like these days. I tend to think of my perfect EDC as most pocketed. These days that is lightweight, thin grind, and great ergonomics. I prefer the Endela/Endura over the Delica. Not because of the blade size, but more of the handle ergos. The Delica has that more rounded portion of the handle that feels like it is pushing my hand off the handle.



So most pocketed has opened my eyes to what I prefer and what seems perfect to me for EDC.
- I like thin bladestock and FFG. I have never had an issue with blades being too delicate. Although, I admit I do like the idea of a more reinforced tip like the Delica/Endela/Endura. Also, the leaf shape blades seems adequately reinforced like the Manix and hopefully future models like the Leaf Jumper and Caly 3.5 LW.
- I like the look of nicer handle scales, but FRN is my preference since they make it in my pockets more often. Lightweight and doesn't shred the pockets too quickly for frequent in and out.
- I like the ergos of my Rock Jumper. Neutral Grip with hand right behind the edge. Love it. It is in my pocket now.

So the Leaf Jumper would fit all of this and probably be close to perfect for me. Not grail knife, but would see a lot of pocket time. Would it keep me from buying more? Heck no. I like the variety. Native Chief LW and Caly 3.5 LW would be instant buys for me no matter what steel they would come in. Although, I would prefer S45VN and SPY27 respectively. Why? Just because.

[Saucerito]

Welcome to the forum!

Nice list, and great first post!

Some remarks, if I may:

- Yes, the Delica is a great iwb running knife (though I still prefer tip up. There´s still enough knife left below the clip and in the waistband, and the strong backlock won´t open up on me, even when running and carried iwb).
But did you ever consider the Salt 2 ffg (in LC200N)? It pretty much replaced the Chaparral as my iwb running knife.
Essentially a Delica, but even lighter, totally rustproof, a tad more cutting edge, and a bigger thumb hole (not that important, but a bit easier to open with gloves or cold hands) - plus: It comes in ffg, SE and regular blade shape. SE ffg is my preferred edge configuration anyway, but especially in a running knife.

- Not all wire clips "lengthen the amount of knife below the clip" - not all are deep carry/loop over, and it also depends on where exactly the clip is attached on the handle.

- Too bad you don´t like the CBBL and pinned construction: If this was not the case, one of the Manix 2 LW variants could be a great knife for you. Your preferred blade shape, very light and despite having a wire clip not too deep carry. No tip down though, but the handle is long enough that you probably won´t want that necessarily in iwb carry anyway.
What are your issues with the CBBL? If it is that you don´t like the closing method most people use: Here are 5 alternatives to it: viewtopic.php?t=87806#p1459252

Yes, I will probably get a Salt 2 in LC200N. I just can’t bring myself to do it yet after I lost my last Salt 2 on its maiden fishing trip. In reality, the Delica/Salt 2 has everything I’d really need in an EDC knife. It just doesn’t have the same ergos, length, and maybe a bit more refinement of the Caly 3.5 I’m dreaming of.

I have a Manix 2 LW. My biggest issue is how wide the knife is either IWB or in the pocket. I’ve made some adjustments to pivot and have probably broken in the spring a bit on the CBBL to make it a lot better for one handed closing but I naturally compare it to Benchmade Axis locks and the action is much better on the Axis lock.

[wrdwrght]

Welcome. You’re doing what I did a decade ago. I’m still trying to figure it out.

I deduce from this endlessness that the journey, not the destination, is what really matters to me.

I think that’s why my pocket sees so many different Spydie models.

[kodai78]

MagnaCut FFG, modified wharncliffe/sheepsfoot, Carbon Fiber scales, button comp lock, black wire clip, basically a Smock with slicier grind. I bet you couldn’t keep those in stock.

[Evil D]

This would suffice for me.





H1 or LC200N, and of course I'd love to try MagnaCut especially if it's being deemed a "Salt steel". Peel ply carbon fiber would be super cool but black G10 will work well enough.

[wrdwrght]

This would suffice for me.





H1 or LC200N, and of course I'd love to try MagnaCut especially if it's being deemed a "Salt steel". Peel ply carbon fiber would be super cool but black G10 will work well enough.

Wait a minute, David. I thought you didn’t like grooves on your Glocks, or is it just Glock’s grooves?

[cycleguy]

M4 D4, and linerless solid carbon fiber D4 are two that would do.

[Evil D]

This would suffice for me.





H1 or LC200N, and of course I'd love to try MagnaCut especially if it's being deemed a "Salt steel". Peel ply carbon fiber would be super cool but black G10 will work well enough.

Wait a minute, David. I thought you didn’t like grooves on your Glocks, or is it just Glock’s grooves?

You're correct, and this is the one exception. It seems I just dislike grooves that don't fit my fingers lol. The Autonomy 1 fits my hand like I squeezed a lump of clay and Spyderco made a handle out of it. I also love how it's nearly as perfect of a blade to handle ratio as you can make in a folder and it has a lot of edge length in a relatively small package, and the grip is thicker than most which I also like. And whole I do really like sheepsfoot blades, having a little gentle belly would be very useful too, in fact instead of what I sketched out they could just "droop the edge" down and give the sheepsfoot about as much belly as a Shaman or Manix 2 and that would work too.


... Like this

[wrdwrght]

This would suffice for me.





H1 or LC200N, and of course I'd love to try MagnaCut especially if it's being deemed a "Salt steel". Peel ply carbon fiber would be super cool but black G10 will work well enough.

Wait a minute, David. I thought you didn’t like grooves on your Glocks, or is it just Glock’s grooves?

You're correct, and this is the one exception. It seems I just dislike grooves that don't fit my fingers lol. The Autonomy 1 fits my hand like I squeezed a lump of clay and Spyderco made a handle out of it. I also love how it's nearly as perfect of a blade to handle ratio as you can make in a folder and it has a lot of edge length in a relatively small package, and the grip is thicker than most which I also like. And whole I do really like sheepsfoot blades, having a little gentle belly would be very useful too, in fact instead of what I sketched out they could just "droop the edge" down and give the sheepsfoot about as much belly as a Shaman or Manix 2 and that would work too.


... Like this

I was just ribbin’ you, but reading your rationale for designs is always worthwhile.