different steel for spyderench?

bladezealot · #1

is there a possibility of replacement blades being offered in steels other than 440? i would be willing to pay a premium to get a steel i prefered more. anyone else want to chime in here?

john row · #2

ATS34? ATS55? VG10? or...?
Something similar to a DIY to pick items, steel, etc.
John

bladezealot · #3

VG10 would be very cool. i'd settle for ats34 or 55.just about anything but 440

bladezealot · #4

VG10 would be very cool. i'd settle for ats34 or 55.just about anything but 440

bladezealot · #5

VG10 would be very cool. i'd settle for ats34 or 55.just about anything but 440

bladezealot · #6

VG10 would be very cool.i'd settle for ats34 or 55.

DL · #7

I don't know about you, but 440C is a fairly good steel. I'm sure Spyderco gave it some thought to match the steel with the knife.

bladezealot · #8

obviously, i was obviously having trouble, along with others, posting last night. to DL; why settle for a "fairly good steel" in an excellent tool by an excellent company? i understand keeping costs down, ease of manufacture, etc...BUT...if they offer a replacement blade at some point in a better steel...I'm there!

#9

Hi Bladezealot. Welcome to the Spyderco forum. There is no 440 steel. There is 440A, 440B & 440C. They range in carbon content from .6 (440A) to 1.00+ (440C). We only use 440C and we use it in the SpydeRench because we wanted a hi carbon steel with excellent corrosion resistance. Many will use the tool around water. Stainless screwdriver bits are easy to find, but the blade had to be more adaptable to different environments. 440C is considered a "Custom quality" steel and is not often used by knife manufacturers.

To date, there have been only compliments on the performance of our SpydeRench blade. Especially when our competitors are using 420J2 (which we consider decent lock or handle material)

sal

bladezealot · #10

why do i feel like i'm getting slammed here? thanks for the lesson in metallurgy, sal. i am familiar with steels. i did not think leaving the "C" off of 440C would be that big of a deal.we all know what we are talking about here. if you noticed, i did pay you a compliment or two.first, i bought the tool;second, i said an excellent tool from an excellent company. i am accustomed to buying what i like, and i like spydercos.i did not realize that i would feel i was being insulted and spoken to in a condescending fashion.i never said i did not like the tool. i just said i am not a fan of 440...A,B, or C.

Windwalker · #11

I thought Sal gave a resonable and honest answer... not "slammed" in any way. If you had known that much about steels, you would probably have said 440C. I find no problems with the blade on my Rench, and for the use I give it, 440C fits the useage. Why go for high cost exotic steel in a tool?

bladezealot · #12

i am somewhat suprised to see people so presumptive here as to assume what i know and don't know.i tend to cut alot of the heavy duty handcuff type plastic ties at work. i like using the spydie tool blade, but i find the edge is more subject to edge deformation than an ats blade [that is ats 34 or 55], or VG10.and i understand the reason for this. i have been quite impressed with the vg10 in this area of useage.btw, i was not just referring to sal's response, but dl's as well. you must admit that if you look at most of the responses i have received that they seem to be somewhat defensive in nature of the tool or the company. i never said anything against either!i simply have owned many handmade and production knives, and i really enjoy trying out different blade steels. i simply don't care for the choice in the tool.although; do not missunderstand , this blade is a better steel than vitually all, if not all of the other multitools on the market.i have owned many of them. i have carried one or more since i first saw the leatherman at the '87 shot show..i just simply inquired as to a blade of another steel somewhere down the line. it was just an innocent question. that's all.

Edited by - bladezealot on 8/17/00 7:39:32 AM

Edited by - bladezealot on 8/17/00 10:11:46 AM

#13

Hi Bladezealot - My apologies for underestimating your experience. There are makers that stamp 440 on their blades. They are using "A" but implying "C". Many forumites (me included) are sensitive to this deception. When you just listed 440, I assumed (wrongly) that you didn't know the difference.

We also get many with minimal experience on the forums and they are seaking to learn, we try to share knowledge.

In corrosion testing ("Q"-fog), ATS-34 & 55 tested poorly when compared to properly heat treated 440C. VG-10 did fairly well in the resistance dept. but it is a Japanese steel that we've not worked with in the past and would need to gain experience with the steel before doing proudction in Golden. The Rench is made in Golden.

Also, Flex cuffs are harder to cut than it appears. The thin hollow grind of the Rench blade may also be part of the problem.

Hope that helps.

sal

bladezealot · #14

my sincerest thanks. i kindly accept your apology, and i in turn apologize if i did not clearly state my question. i did not mean to infer what i apparently did. thankyou very much. i really enjoy the rench. i find myself playing with the rench during spare moments at work.my compliments. it is quite innovative.thankyou for the reply to my question, i look forward to further exchanges on this forum.<img src="smile.gif" width=15 height=15 align=middle>

Windwalker · #15

Hi Bladezelot
You came back to Sal with a well worded, well put reply, and I admire you for it....
We all jump to conclusions now and then, and I'm sorry if I suggested your steel knowledge might be lacking... Anyway, welcome to the Spyderco Family of users.
Me, I'm waiting for a Shebaria to come in the mail..... plain edge, of course.. :-)
Windwalker

bladezealot · #16

thankyou, windwalker.i appreciate the compliment and response.i humbly accept the apology.btw, i just got the calypso jr. lightweight in VG10 today. very nice.

Paani · #17

Wouldn't 440C also have more toughness/ductibility than some of the other super steels like CPM440V and ATS34?

That might be important along with the rust resistance. In an emergency repair type situation, I might be more inclined to chop and pry with the wrench's blade than with the blade of an expensive folder. I'd MUCH rather see it bend, then snap and be totally useless : )

#18

The only real drawbacks we could determine in testing with 440C;

1) The large amount of chrome (16-18%) is great for corrosion resistance and the large amount of carbon (1.0%+)is great for hardness and toughness. But... the result ends up producing large secondary carbides that can break out of a very thin edge. This means the 40 degree angle is "mo betta" for 440C.

2) It is more expensive to purchase and turn into a knife blade.

3) 440C must be properly heat treated or the corrosion resistance can go from the good end of the scale to the poor end.

We felt that what we get in the end result is best for this tool. Time and "real life" testing will ultimately provide the truth.

sal

bladezealot · #19

you do have a valid point, paani. but in my personalexperience, i have'nt broken a blade since i was 14 when i was stupidly trying to straighten a bent fillet knife blade.of course, stitches insued.i usually carry a myriad of items on my person and in my vehicle to be somewhat prepared for many eventuallities.in my suv, i carry a crowbar,shovel,wood and metal saw,wire,twine, spare water,a good fixed blade.my person; i carry a custom gerber tool, a spyderench,a new calypso jr. lightweight, a W. henry evolution, a bill king custom, a lighter, waterproof matches, a small first aid kit, spare keys, etc.... believe it or not, i actually have most of these items compacted into a small belt pouch.basically, where i'm headed with this ,is to say i usually carry an appropriate tool for most tasks that will arise.so i generally don't have to worry about breaking a blade.<img src="smile.gif" width=15 height=15 align=middle> forgot,
i also carry a police model, doublestuff[great product,sal]and a small bottle of oil daily<img src="smile.gif" width=15 height=15 align=middle>

Edited by - bladezealot on 8/20/00 10:15:02 AM

Edited by - bladezealot on 8/20/00 10:16:58 AM

Edited by - bladezealot on 8/20/00 11:17:19 AM

Mancer · #20

Hmmmmmm, I wont even comment on the original reply to Sal as Ill tell you things you wont be at all fond of, a large amount of people on this forum are new to the knife world, they dont know the various metals, its pretty obvious Sal meant it in such a way.

Where the insulting bit comes in I have no clue, he told you direct in a honest, good straightforward way.

I do find it very disturbing that you respond to him in such a way, mabey Im going overboard for saying this, but ****, I think your response to him was bloody disgusting and disrespectful, and Sal should'nt have been expected to apoligise, I found your mentality around that post very immature.
A man of Sal's greatness and talent even saying a word to us should be very much appreciated.

I couldnt care less if you guys flame me for this, go ahead.
But I feel strongly about this 1, Sal was treated with no respect and given some very sarcastic/cocky comments that a man of his level does not deserve.

Think before you type

MaNcEr

It's Time To Kick @$$ 'N Chew Bubble Gum