Sal, why is ZDP-189 being phased out in favor of K390?

[Toucan]

If ZDP stopps getting made I might have to seriously consider ponying up for a Rockstead of some sort. They've always been a "grail" knife sort of thing for me, but jeeeeez those prices.

Other than my love for titanium and wharnies, this knife has ZDP-189 steel. Such a rare steel to find these days, it was a no brainer! I got it around a month ago, could still be available at montereybayknives. It's the Slayback flipper.

Talk about serendipity, I just saw that knife won "best production knife" or something like that at Bladeshow this year. I was sleeping on it because I think I saw the M390 variant, but a nice ZDP folder for $200ish is pretty sweet. Looks like they are sold out for now. Luckily I just was recently gifted a 420j-clad ZDP Caly3.5, so full size ZDP folder is checked for now. If they do a new batch I will seriously consider it, thanks for sharing.

[Sharp Guy]

If ZDP stopps getting made I might have to seriously consider ponying up for a Rockstead of some sort. They've always been a "grail" knife sort of thing for me, but jeeeeez those prices.

Other than my love for titanium and wharnies, this knife has ZDP-189 steel. Such a rare steel to find these days, it was a no brainer! I got it around a month ago, could still be available at montereybayknives. It's the Slayback flipper.

Talk about serendipity, I just saw that knife won "best production knife" or something like that at Bladeshow this year. I was sleeping on it because I think I saw the M390 variant, but a nice ZDP folder for $200ish is pretty sweet. Looks like they are sold out for now. Luckily I just was recently gifted a 420j-clad ZDP Caly3.5, so full size ZDP folder is checked for now. If they do a new batch I will seriously consider it, thanks for sharing.

I just saw on IG that the Slayback won best factory EDC knife at Bladeshow West. I came here to tell Rick but you beat me too it

[z1r]

Was at the SFO today, checke dout the ZDP Stretch and the SS stretch. Gonna have to pick up one ofthe ZDP's before they're gone. I have a feeling that ZDP would skin a couple of hogs before needing to be touched up!

Then, later, I'll get a SS K390! Then I won't need to choose.

[TkoK83Spy]

That's awesome! I loved it at first sight when Julia posted hers, but even better in hand. Admittedly, I havent really used it much, but it's a quality piece and the action is so smooth. I'm glad it won that award, and as someone that has one, it doesn't surprise me!

[sal]

We were told that Hitachi was going to phase it out, but I see some makers are still able to get it. Don't know if it's old stock or what. We've got an order in for Caly 3.5 in ZDP laminate that has been accepted. ???

sal

[gspam1]

[ZDP-189 got the "most overrated steel" award on KSN; it certainly doesn't have a number of physical/chemical attributes more prominent, V-focused steels have. ]

What is KSN? Googling doesn't get me anything knife related. Thanks!

[Tgmr05]

[ZDP-189 got the "most overrated steel" award on KSN; it certainly doesn't have a number of physical/chemical attributes more prominent, V-focused steels have. ]

What is KSN? Googling doesn't get me anything knife related. Thanks!

Knife Steel Nerds. Larrin Thomas, designer of Magnacut

[z1r]

We were told that Hitachi was going to phase it out, but I see some makers are still able to get it. Don't know if it's old stock or what. We've got an order in for Caly 3.5 in ZDP laminate that has been accepted. ???

sal

Fingers crossed.

[sal]

Hi Gspam,

Welcome to our forum.

Regarding, ZDP, we've been using it for decades with excellent response. We'll be sorry to see it go, if it goes.

sal

[Sharp Guy]

...We've got an order in for Caly 3.5 in ZDP laminate that has been accepted. ???

sal

On a side note it's nice to hear you're trying to do another run of the Caly 3.5. It's a really nice knife

[The Mastiff]

ZDP was one of the first steels that really lit my fuse when it came out. The others were BG 42 and M2 HSS. I considered BG 42 a true stainless "super steel" and then along came ZDP with higher hardness than any other stainless and amazing wear resistance. I couldn't get enough of those Caly jr's and Jess Horns both selling right around $62 which was good even then. I think I eventually ended up with 5 Jess Horns and ended up giving most away. For me knives rarely wear out and I can't recall breaking any even going back to when I was a kid. In fact I just recently found my very first knife ever on a box I was going through.

Really I'd take K390 anyday over ZDP but I will still always respect ZDP. It set new standards for me.

Joe

[Skywalker]

No complaints from me at ZDP being phased out... Have owned it in a Delica (twice), a Caly 3, Caly 3.5, and a Ladybug. Sold all of them.

It's non-stainless enough to spot after cutting up fruit if not cleaned relatively soon after, and while it cut for a while with a relatively polished edge it was sometimes frustrating to sharpen to that polish and never did seem to take a quick low-grit edge well. Never much tested the toughness but was generally careful not to with a ~64 HRC steel.

Bring on the K390, or the HAP-40 if Japanese steel in the Japanese models ever becomes an issue again.

[Karl_H]

No complaints from me at ZDP being phased out... Have owned it in a Delica (twice), a Caly 3, Caly 3.5, and a Ladybug. Sold all of them.

It's non-stainless enough to spot after cutting up fruit if not cleaned relatively soon after, and while it cut for a while with a relatively polished edge it was sometimes frustrating to sharpen to that polish and never did seem to take a quick low-grit edge well. Never much tested the toughness but was generally careful not to with a ~64 HRC steel.

Bring on the K390, or the HAP-40 if Japanese steel in the Japanese models ever becomes an issue again.

I agree. I don’t see any real advantage to ZDP-189 over alternatives like K390 (Bohler) and HAP40 (Hitachi), unless you are using alumina whetstones. Even then, I would not be surprised if HAP40 is actually easier to sharpen on alumina whetstones.

I believe it is main reason for existing is that it can be better sharpened on traditional Japanese Waterstones than steels containing harder carbides. If you have diamond or CBN abrasives for sharpening, I don’t see the appeal.

[Tgmr05]

I will always have a soft spot for zdp, it holds a razor edge quite a while which I really like in pocket knives - clipless like manbug or dragonfly with clip removed. It is not necessarily as stainless as most would like, but with a little extra care did ok by me.

[sal]

ZDP was a watershed steel when it came out and was for a while. 3% Carbon, 20% Chrome with alloys like Niobium. In the blade steel world, it was, in my opinion, flight.

sal

[GarageBoy]

If zdp does in fact go away, maybe a "final run" sprint?

[steelcity16]

If zdp does in fact go away, maybe a "final run" sprint?

I vote for a sprint of the Jester, Endela, Wharnie Dragonfly.

[z1r]

If zdp does in fact go away, maybe a "final run" sprint?

I vote for a sprint of the Jester, Endela, Wharnie Dragonfly.

Wow, I totally second this and would ACTUALLY buy all three!

[bleasure]

If zdp does in fact go away, maybe a "final run" sprint?

This thread led me to thirsting for a Stretch 2 in ZDP, so I'd vote for that theoretically, but less selfishly a line that hasn't been green/ZDP'd would be pretty neat - again, theoretically. Currently exhaustively looking for a good used green Stretch across the internet. Not only the perfect scale color, but a unique steel I want to use before it becomes too difficult to, and the overall design is incredible. Looks like a Noldorian weapon, I'm obsessed. I want to know more about this line if anyone can point me to a thread on its design or production history; esp curious how it got its name.

[sal]

Hi Bleasure,

I guess when it comes to history, you're stuck with me.

I designed the first "Hunter" model in 1983. A 3" drop point blade in Gingami 1 (though marked G2 - another long story). Stainless scales. Tip down clip. I changed the blade shape and we made a number of variations with 3" blades. We added, then removed Kraton from the scales (inset) and clip. Also made FRN versions. Made them with and without serrations. Maybe a half dozen+ versions. called them "Pro-Hunter", changed to "Pro-Venator" (another company was using the name Pro-Hunter). Some years ago, I stretched the design to 3.5" blade, changed the blade shape again. We made G-10 versions and FRN versions. Still a drop point. That's when the name was changed to "Stretch". Revised the design again to improve the handle for larger hands which became the "Stretch 2". Still with a drop point blade. Then I designed a straight spined version of the Stretch 2 and made a sprint run with a white FRN scale to test response. Then we added a K390 version to the Straight Spine Stretch 2. Then I again lengthened the size to a 4.0" blade with a Straight Spine which we are currently tooling up for a FRN version. While the 4.0" blade version is large for some jurisdictions, I believe the larger version is a very highly refined folder that the Afi (aficianado) might appreciate. I've carried the prototypes quite a bit and I'm looking forward to getting a first production article. We'll probably make a few in different steels.

Hope that helps?

sal