Let's talk about cutting edge vs blade length

[Karl_H]

I think the Ikuchi is the best example of a Spyderco knife design that minimizes wasted space.

The entire length of the handle is usable, with gimping on the bottom in lieu of a guard. Nearly the entire length of the blade is usable, except for a very small sharpening choil. There is essentially no ricasso that becomes unusable space for cutting.

When open, The Ikuchi is my favorite unmodified Spyderco knife.

[kobold]

A very cool mod:

Kobold, did you do that yourself? It looks fantastic!

I've thought of doing similar - I'd love a thread on this topic.

I wish. David Mary on BF did it: https://bladeforums.com/threads/the-%E2 ... t-20761440

But ask EvilD!

[sal]

Hi Farmer,

It's always a balance between cutting edge and purchase. It's less critical when dealing with larger blades, but makes a larger difference in smaller edges. Purchase is critical for control of the edge. I'm not suggesting that one might be better or more important, that's up to you.

The function of the knife, to me, determines the balance.

sal

[TomAiello]

I'll gladly trade edge length for a usable 50/50 choil.

Me too.

[Evil D]

I think the Ikuchi is the best example of a Spyderco knife design that minimizes wasted space.

The entire length of the handle is usable, with gimping on the bottom in lieu of a guard. Nearly the entire length of the blade is usable, except for a very small sharpening choil. There is essentially no ricasso that becomes unusable space for cutting.

When open, The Ikuchi is my favorite unmodified Spyderco knife.

You need a Nilakka.

[Farmer]

Hi Farmer,

It's always a balance between cutting edge and purchase. It's less critical when dealing with larger blades, but makes a larger difference in smaller edges. Purchase is critical for control of the edge. I'm not suggesting that one might be better or more important, that's up to you.

The function of the knife, to me, determines the balance.

sal

Thanks for the response Sal, much appreciated.

I completely buy into your twin points about the function of the knife determining the balance and that it's up to users to determine what's most important to them. The shame [in my eyes] is that I can't express my own preference by buying a mid-sized Spyderco lockback with plenty of edge. Which is a crying shame cos I'd be first in the queue to buy one and I would imagine there might be a few others too!

[skeeg11]

Once the handle comfortably fills my grip, I'm a no choil kinda guy except for slippies.

[Wartstein]

Thanks for the response Sal, much appreciated.

I completely buy into your twin points about the function of the knife determining the balance and that it's up to users to determine what's most important to them. The shame [in my eyes] is that I can't express my own preference by buying a mid-sized Spyderco lockback with plenty of edge. Which is a crying shame cos I'd be first in the queue to buy one and I would imagine there might be a few others too!

I´d be one of those "others"
The Rock Jumper platform really could offer this, if there will be versions with longer blades.

Also: Did you ever consider getting a Stretch 1? It can still be found for reasonable money, and offers a very good amount of edge for the closed package:
Let´s compare it with a Delica for example:

- Closed length: Delica: 4.25" (108mm); Stretch 1; 4.438 " (113mm), so a difference of 5mm
- Edge length: Delica: 2.56" (65mm); Stretch 1: 3.188 " (81mm), so a difference of 16 (!) mm, and this despite the Stretch offers a choil (and the Delica not...)

SUCH an option is missing in the in house Spyderco backlock line since the Stretch 1 and Caly 3.5 got discontinued,,

[z1r]

Manix 2, I hardly recognized you! That is a lot of regrind, converting the blade choil to usable edge.

The profile where handle meets blade reminds me of a Sebenza.

...(Really wonder for the 100th time why there aren´t more Spydies using this great lock: It is a Spyderco invention, just like the comp.lock, ambidextrous and has that "backlock-ish" closing bias that liner- and comp.lock don´t offer).

I agree, would like to see more offerings with the CBBL. IMHO, beats the Benchmade Axis lock with its flimsy springs!

[sal]

Hey Farmer,

Check out the Centofante and the RockJumper.

sal

[Wartstein]

Hey Farmer,

Check out the Centofante and the RockJumper.

sal

Hi Sal,

I doubt that these two models, as great as they are (especially the RockJumper!!) are what Farmer is looking for:
"A mid sized Spyderco backlock with plenty of edge"

When it comes to edge to handle ratio, the RockJumper is almost excactly like most other mid sized Spydero backlocks, like Endela or Stretch 2:

- RockJumper: Cutting edge has about 64% of the handle length (Closed length: 4.42 / cutting edge: 2.83 / ratio handle/edge: 1.56).
- Endela: Edge has again about 64% of the handle length (Closed length: 4.69 / cutting edge 2.99 / ratio: 1.57)
- Stretch 2: Edge has 63% of the handle length (Closed length: 4.72 / cutting edge 3.01 / ratio 1.58)

The Centofante (very nice, but for me rather specialized with its sabre hollow grind):
- Edge has 67.5 % of the handle length (Closed length: 4,5 / cutting edge: 3.04 / ratio: 1.48).

Now compared to Stretch 1 and Caly 3.5, two backlock models with really good edge to handle ratio:

- Stretch 1: Edge has 71.5% of the handle length (Closed length: 4.43 / cutting edge: 3.12 / ratio: 1.40).
- Caly 3.5: Edge has 72.5% of the handle length (Closed length: 4.25 / cutting edge: 3.04 / ratio 1.38).

(Just for reference:
Large: Endura: Edge has 70% of the handle length;
Small: Salt 2: Edge has 62% of the handle length)

[Evil D]

Ok I do somewhat obsess over this but not enough to do math



I was just fiddling with my Rock Jumper last night and man I really do like it. I really have high hopes for the XL version.

[Wartstein]

Ok I do somewhat obsess over this but not enough to do math



I was just fiddling with my Rock Jumper last night and man I really do like it. I really have high hopes for the XL version.

Yeah, I know...

But I just had some spare time and was interested in finding out to what extend the numbers actually prove what we are saying here.

/ Could handle a Rockjumper, and yes, it is great indeed!!
An edge length like the Stretch 1 has would just be the icing on the cake (and as said: I just wonder why a knife that had the explicit design goal (stated by Spyderco) to offer as much cutting edge as possible does have an edge/blade quite a bit shorter than it easily could be).

[Farmer]

Hey Farmer,

Check out the Centofante and the RockJumper.

sal

Thanks for the suggestions Sal.

The Centofante is indeed much closer to my ideal and I do like the overall concept. However there are too many design compromises for me, possibly due to it being a gentleman's knife. I'm thinking of those things you just don't see on more modern 'working' models, eg pinned construction, hollow grind, lack of handle grip, very thin stock etc.

The RockJumper addresses all those issues but unfortunately, as Wartstein says above, it doesn't really achieve what it sets out to do. Now if the forthcoming LeafJumper really did pack the handle with edge, that would hit the spot perfectly...hint hint!

Anyway I genuinely do appreciate you taking the time to both listen and reply to the 'edge ratio lobbyists'. It's one of things that makes Spyderco such a great brand.

[bjz]

This thread just reinforces my desire to find a stretch 1 or few (and a caly).

FOR ME, and my medium sized hands, edge to blade length/handle ratios don’t seem to make much of a difference in feel with small to medium sized options, where I almost always prefer a 50/50 choil.

Larger knives is where it seems to make a big difference. For example, I have a stretch 2 SS and while the blade shape and edge length are right in the sweet spot for me for a bigger blade, the overall handle plus 50/50 choil make the knife feel overly long and unbalanced (again, for me). I’ve kind of felt this way about most larger knives that I’ve been able to check out (pm2, manix, Cara Cara plus other non-spyderco options). Conversely, my tenacious gives me gobs of useable edge length, a handle that fits great and feels balanced, and barely eats up more pocket space than my para 3 lw. It can be a compelling factor for many of us.

I have a strong suspicion that a stretch 1 would kick most of my medium size knives out of my pocket!

[Wartstein]

This thread just reinforces my desire to find a stretch 1 or few (and a caly).

FOR ME, and my medium sized hands, edge to blade length/handle ratios don’t seem to make much of a difference in feel with small to medium sized options, where I almost always prefer a 50/50 choil.

Larger knives is where it seems to make a big difference. For example, I have a stretch 2 SS and while the blade shape and edge length are right in the sweet spot for me for a bigger blade, the overall handle plus 50/50 choil make the knife feel overly long and unbalanced (again, for me). I’ve kind of felt this way about most larger knives that I’ve been able to check out (pm2, manix, Cara Cara plus other non-spyderco options). Conversely, my tenacious gives me gobs of useable edge length, a handle that fits great and feels balanced, and barely eats up more pocket space than my para 3 lw. It can be a compelling factor for many of us.

I have a strong suspicion that a stretch 1 would kick most of my medium size knives out of my pocket!

Right, with the Stretch 1 and the Caly 3.5 the two mid sized backlock options with very good edge to handle ratio unfortunately got discontinued. All that still exists or came afterwards offers" just" a rather short edge compared to the rather long carry in pocket: As said, Endela, Stretch 2, RockJumper: All just about Manix / PM2 edge to handle ratio. Especially the RockJumper could have become the platform and option for those who like or just sometimes want to carry a lot of edge in a compact backlock option.
To be clear: All the above mentioned models are great knives!
It is just that they are all about the same when it comes to edge to handle ratio, and a compact mid sized backlock with a lot of edge - alternative is now missing in the line up.

/ As for the Stretch 1:
Can still be found at the (controversially discussed) Bento Box Shop for $ 145 in VG10 and $ 185 in HAP40.
So the VG10 Stretch 1 is about 40 % more than the current VG10 Stretch 2, and the HAP40 about 30% more than the current K390 Stretch 2. Both worth it in my view (especially the HAP40 one), since the Stretch 1 is such a perfect design and nowadays pretty unique option, as discussed above.
The Stretch 1 will fit you great, when Manix 2 or PM2 do offer enough handle space for you. The Stretch one has about the same (or a tad more), in a much more compact overall size.

/ And I am with you on the Tenacious! I´d highly recommend the S35VN version, should you not own it already anyway.

[Farmer]

Also: Did you ever consider getting a Stretch 1? It can still be found for reasonable money, and offers a very good amount of edge for the closed package:

Sorry Wartstein, just realised I never replied to your suggestion - thank you! Despite my dislike of choils the Stretch 1 does still look like a very decent knife, so yes I probably would give it a try. No success finding one in UK so far but I'll keep my eye out.

[Wartstein]

Also: Did you ever consider getting a Stretch 1? It can still be found for reasonable money, and offers a very good amount of edge for the closed package:

Sorry Wartstein, just realised I never replied to your suggestion - thank you! Despite my dislike of choils the Stretch 1 does still look like a very decent knife, so yes I probably would give it a try. No success finding one in UK so far but I'll keep my eye out.

Hope you´ll find one! :)

I am also not necessarily a fan of choils, but the one of the Stretch is rather minimal, like in short and shallow.
Gives a lot of control when using it (=the choil), for me more than most deeper choils.
And is short enough, so that the hand is still not too far from the edge when not choked up.

And as said: Stretch 1 is just 5 mm longer closed than a Delica, but offers 16 mm more of cutting edge. Pretty amazing for a knife with choil.

[Doc Dan]

For some reason I never cottoned to the Stretch 1. I really love the K390 Stretch 2, however. I think perhaps it is the handle. It fits my hand. I also like the blade shape more. Still, in this discussion, the 1 has a bit more cutting edge, but for me it came down to the handle room.