I really hope Spyderco is keeping the liners for the upcoming FRN/LW PM2.

[Xformer]

Like many of you here, I've read that Spyderco (and Eric in particular) is working hard on a FRN/Lightweight version of the PM2.

I've always liked the PM2, it's the knife I take to work daily, but I still have my gripes with it :

- The handle isn't chamfered, which makes it blockier than the Military or the Delica.
- The G10 scratches a lot.
- The clip is shiny and bulky.

All those gripes could potentially be solved with a FRN/Lightweight model.

I'll say it straight : Spyderco FRN is the best in the market. Usually I tend to avoid plastic in my life as much as I can, but Spyderco FRN is clearly in a league of its own and one of the exception I make. The texture is grippy, the material is bulletproof and the molding is close to perfect, which allows for great ergos. Kudos to Spyderco on that particular point. Add to that a potential wire-clip and most of my gripes with the current PM2 would be solved.

There's just one problem : I fear the upcoming PM2 would lose the liners and just be a bigger PM3, which to me would be a big disappointment...

I've always thought going the linerless route was for the best... up until I bought a PM3 Lightweight. I really thought it would be a knife for me, correcting all my gripes with the PM2. The PM3 LW had everything : FRN handles that are perfectly molded, a wire-clip, it's linerless, it's more compact... Unfortunately, I had to resell it because of my disappointment with it. It being linerless made it feel "cheap" to me, something I've rarely felt from a Spyderco knife. I couldn't shake the feeling even after weeks of daily use. It felt hollows and just... wrong. It's the same feeling I got from the Salt 2, which is basically a linerless Delica.

While I'm waiting for that upcoming model very hard, I also fear it will lose the liners and give me that same feeling of cheapness and that wrong feeling that made me sell both my PM3 LW and my Salt 2.

It's a way of drawing Sal and Spyderco attention on this. I'm just one voice among many, but I hope that I'll be heard. I really, really hope that the PM2 Eric is working on is a FRN model (with liners) and not a linerless LW model.

Edit : I forgot to mention one other point : the linerless compression lock "sounds" less satisfying than the compression lock with liners. Something to do with acoustic, but it's noticeable to me.

[Wartstein]

Sorry to say, but I really hope they WILL make a PM2 LW linerless... I mean, being light is the main point of "lightweight".

I have a Para 3 LW to try it out right now.
And yes, the FRN somehow feels a bit more "plasticy" than on my Seki and even other Golden FRNs indeed. Does not bother me though, and putting liners beneath that FRN would not change much imho...

Perhaps you could try and chamfer the handle of a G10 PM2 diy? Just a thought..

[Xformer]

Sorry to say, but I really hope they WILL make a PM2 LW linerless... I mean, being light is the main point of "lightweight".

I have a Para 3 LW to try it out right now.
And yes, the FRN somehow feels a bit more "plasticy" than on my Seki and even other Golden FRNs indeed. Does not bother me though, and putting liners beneath that FRN would not change much imho...

Perhaps you could try and chamfer the handle of a G10 PM2 diy? Just a thought..

From what I understand, there are two brands of those Spyderco models when it comes to those FRN variations :

- The FRN models, like the Chaparral FRN. The handles are FRN, but it keeps it liners.
- The Lightweight (LW) models, where the main purpose is being as lightweight as possible, thus losing the liners, like the Native 5 FRN or the PM3 LW.

In short, I hope that upcoming PM2 is a PM2 FRN and not a PM2 LW.

About the diy chamfering, I'd butcher it 100% and that would only solve one problem I have with the current model.

[Evil D]

I'm betting it'll have only enough liner for the lock itself and nothing more.

[Gtscotty]

Sorry to say, but I really hope they WILL make a PM2 LW linerless... I mean, being light is the main point of "lightweight".

I have a Para 3 LW to try it out right now.
And yes, the FRN somehow feels a bit more "plasticy" than on my Seki and even other Golden FRNs indeed. Does not bother me though, and putting liners beneath that FRN would not change much imho...

Perhaps you could try and chamfer the handle of a G10 PM2 diy? Just a thought..

From what I understand, there are two brands of those Spyderco models when it comes to those FRN variations :

- The FRN models, like the Chaparral FRN. The handles are FRN, but it keeps it liners.
- The Lightweight (LW) models, where the main purpose is being as lightweight as possible, thus losing the liners, like the Native 5 FRN or the PM3 LW.

In short, I hope that upcoming PM2 is a PM2 FRN and not a PM2 LW.

About the diy chamfering, I'd butcher it 100% and that would only solve one problem I have with the current model.

I would agree, I'd prefer that the P2 FRN retain it's liners, perhaps more skeletonized if need be, but hopefully not given the same flimsy feeling lightweight treatment as the P3 LW. If I had to put money on it though, I'd guess that it will be a linerless LW model, it's got to be significantly cheaper to omit the liners and have the handle be one piece injection molded plastic.

[dsvirsky]

Sorry to say, but I really hope they WILL make a PM2 LW linerless... I mean, being light is the main point of "lightweight".

Exactly. It's "lightweight," not "less heavy." I own both the "with liners" and the "without liners" versions of a few knives (e.g., Delica wharncliffe and Salt 2 wharncliffe, Endura and Pacific Salt 2) and I don't think the linerless versions give up anything in performance, nor do they feel cheap to me. Although, I do have to agree the Para 3 LW has a different feel than the other lightweights.

[Accutron]

I bet the PM2LW will basically be a BHQ copper PM2 but with FRN instead of copper, plus a steel liner/insert around the pivot like a P3LW. I suspect the reason we haven't seen the PM2LW prototype yet is because of the same centering issues as the P3LW, only magnified.

Without a significant weight savings, there is no positive market differentiation for the lightweight model. Most customers will view it as an uglier, more cheaply manufactured PM2 with an inferior traction profile. As a PM2 enthusiast, I have no interest in a linered FRN PM2. I also have no interest in a linerless PM2 with consistently horrible centering.

[Matus]

Well, if there is a chance that a handle on the PM2LW will not be shaped like a brick it would be a considerable improvement. But of course the handle needs to be mechanically stable. P2LW is a bit on the bendy side.

[VooDooChild]

I doubt it will have full skeletonized liners.

The thing is, it doesnt need them. Its all just preference. We can make a pros and cons list but for any normal use there doesnt seem to be a reason to have liners.

[FK]

If your main complaint on the PM2 is the blocky feel of the scales,,,,,, why not get some replacement scales in micarta or G10? Many of the after market scales are more contoured on the edges and feel much better in hand.

Wire clip on a PM2???? Asking for loss of the knife or easy snagging on the clip.

Regards,
FK

[Xformer]

Without a significant weight savings, there is no positive market differentiation for the lightweight model. Most customers will view it as an uglier, more cheaply manufactured PM2 with an inferior traction profile.

We disagree.

- FRN allows to mold better ergos than the blockiness of the G10 of the current PM2.
- FRN doesn't scratch like the PM2 G10 does.
- FRN doesn't destroy your jeans like Spyderco G10 does.
- FRN allows for beatiful diy color or just more color in general.
- FRN doesn't lose its texture like Spyderco G10 does. My PM2 was very gripy at first, now not so much.
- Wire-clip.

What do you mean by traction profile though ?

[Xformer]

If your main complaint on the PM2 is the blocky feel of the scales,,,,,, why not get some replacement scales in micarta or G10? Many of the after market scales are more contoured on the edges and feel much better in hand.

Wire clip on a PM2???? Asking for loss of the knife or easy snagging on the clip.

Regards,
FK

The Slysz Bowie has a wire-clip. I don't see why a FRN PM2 couldn't ? I've already tested custom wire-clip on PM2 and it wasn't a problem as far as I remember.

[Accutron]

Without a significant weight savings, there is no positive market differentiation for the lightweight model. Most customers will view it as an uglier, more cheaply manufactured PM2 with an inferior traction profile.

We disagree.

And that's fine.

- FRN allows to mold better ergos than the blockiness of the G10 of the current PM2.

That depends entirely on whether you're going for superior comfort or superior indexing. I prefer the latter, and I've never had any comfort issues with either the PM2 or Chief, even with extended use. Your hands may vary.

- FRN doesn't scratch like the PM2 G10 does.

I've never had a problem with G-10 picking up scratches, but I can see how that would be a (cosmetic) issue for some people.

- FRN doesn't destroy your jeans like Spyderco G10 does.

That's part of the problem. If it doesn't grip your pants as well, it doesn't grip your hand as well either.

- FRN allows for beatiful diy color or just more color in general.

Meh. It's not a functional attribute.

- FRN doesn't lose its texture like Spyderco G10 does. My PM2 was very gripy at first, now not so much.

That varies entirely by color. Black G-10 seems to wear quite rapidly, while many other colors do not.

- Wire-clip.

Eww?

What do you mean by traction profile though ?

Just referring to the 'grippiness'.

[vivi]

sounds like you could solve your issues with the PM2 with $2 of sandpaper and a black clip.

[Wartstein]

Without a significant weight savings, there is no positive market differentiation for the lightweight model. Most customers will view it as an uglier, more cheaply manufactured PM2 with an inferior traction profile.

We disagree.

And that's fine.

- FRN allows to mold better ergos than the blockiness of the G10 of the current PM2.

That depends entirely on whether you're going for superior comfort or superior indexing. I prefer the latter, and I've never had any comfort issues with either the PM2 or Chief, even with extended use. Your hands may vary.

- FRN doesn't scratch like the PM2 G10 does.

I've never had a problem with G-10 picking up scratches, but I can see how that would be a (cosmetic) issue for some people.

- FRN doesn't destroy your jeans like Spyderco G10 does.

That's part of the problem. If it doesn't grip your pants as well, it doesn't grip your hand as well either.

- FRN allows for beatiful diy color or just more color in general.

Meh. It's not a functional attribute.

- FRN doesn't lose its texture like Spyderco G10 does. My PM2 was very gripy at first, now not so much.

That varies entirely by color. Black G-10 seems to wear quite rapidly, while many other colors do not.

- Wire-clip.

Eww?

What do you mean by traction profile though ?

Just referring to the 'grippiness'.

FRN is grippier than G10 due to the bidirectional texturing
AND FRN is still less of pocket destroyer, partly cause the clip lands on the smooth logo, partly because "sandpaper structure" (G10) does not necessarily mean "grippier in a human hand.. just my 2c (but also my personal experience)

[Accutron]

FRN is grippier than G10 due to the bidirectional texturing
AND FRN is still less of pocket destroyer, partly cause the clip lands on the smooth logo, partly because "sandpaper structure" (G10) does not necessarily mean "grippier in a human hand.. just my 2c (but also my personal experience)

That would not agree with my own experience. I find Golden's standard peel ply G-10 to have far higher grip traction than either Golden or Seki FRN. But, that's why Spyderco makes handles in both materials, and I wouldn't want them to get rid of FRN handles. I absolutely despise wire clips, but I'm glad they offer it for people who are into that sorta thing.

I'm not a FRN hater, I just think it's somewhat inferior to G-10 as a handle material, so a FRN PM2 really needs the lightweight factor to give it a clearly defined attribute in its favor.

[Matus]

I find that the amount of grip on FRN depends strongly on the pressure. If one holds the knife lightly, the fingers are basically ‘gliding’ on the very top surface of the large structures thus giving rather smooth feel, even might feel a bit slippery. Once you grip the handle more firmly, you get a very secure grip. On the other hand G10 is more like a coarse sandpaper and always gives that grit feel (given the surface is not smoothened or polished.

[soc_monki]

I'd be OK with 2 bronze washers, and a partial liner on the non-lock side, and the lock bar and partial liner on the lock side. I don't have any problem with the Lara 3 LW, other than I just don't carry mine (prefer the full fat para 3). I would rock a lightweight pm2 though.

I really do need to carry my para 3 LW more... Its a great little knife. I need to force myself to do a one week challenge with it or something.

[Araignee]

I find that the amount of grip on FRN depends strongly on the pressure. If one holds the knife lightly, the fingers are basically ‘gliding’ on the very top surface of the large structures thus giving rather smooth feel, even might feel a bit slippery. Once you grip the handle more firmly, you get a very secure grip. On the other hand G10 is more like a coarse sandpaper and always gives that grit feel (given the surface is not smoothened or polished.

FRN having an inferior grip to G10 is also my experience, but not for the exact same reason.

On FRN my fingers are gliding because, due to the interspaced spots, there's not enough surface to provide adherence (except on the central logo since it's plain). Whilst with G10, the entire surface is uniform, hence provide an opportunity for the moisture on the skin to act as a glue between the fingers and the scales.

[nerdlock]

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