So what's the top contender for all around "super steel" these days?
Re: So what's the top contender for all around "super steel" these days?
CPM-Cruwear. Best balance of properties.
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( Rabindranath Tagore )
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Re: So what's the top contender for all around "super steel" these days?
I think despite my better efforts I still came off a bit harsh this morning. I didn't mean to sound like nobody should care about this sort of thing, only that maybe we should be more open minded about your real needs instead of chasing the dragon. I do have a healthy interest in trying out these kinds of steels, but I am far more excited these days about what you might call "exceptionally average" steels like MagnaCut that may not be the BEST at any one thing but are above average at everything without any major compromises. I guess maybe that was the point of the thread all along and I took it the wrong way.
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Re: So what's the top contender for all around "super steel" these days?
Like I said, some guys don't mind spotting. The person, activity, and environment are all factors. Salty and acidic environments definitely promote corrosion. There are different types of sanitizer but you've got firsthand experience with the results on M390, which is otherwise very stainless. In your specific case, it was an uphill battle and probably "silly" at the end of the day. If I was in that environment, I'd probably try LC200N before I stopped caring.aaronkb wrote: ↑Mon Aug 02, 2021 4:51 amI live in a city that’s nicknamed the swamp and I work on my feet all day
The crux of my point is that it’s silly IMO to care about spotting. Maybe it helps that I’m an essential worker, and before we all knew better I was sanitizing everything on my person whenever I got home. The sanitizer managed to rust the **** out of my M390, s30v etc…. Which really put minor spotting in perspective for me. My k390, rex 45, and m4 knives give me the best performance and sharpening experience, and I’m happy to accept they might not look like they just came out of the box.
Not caring can be very freeing. There are benefits in the non-stainless steels.
Here is another possibly "silly" sentiment. I often carry budget knives. Some of that involves a hedge against caring too much or high replacement value. (I've actually got a Rockjumper in my pocket right now.) When it comes to more expensive or custom knives, I regard them with higher value. I get excited when I think about passing them down to my kids. Having a hedge against corrosion plays into that.
Re: So what's the top contender for all around "super steel" these days?
I know we all know that a steel is just potential of the sum of its ingredients and the chef can pick a recipe that makes the actual steel end product. 10 chefs would make 10 different expressions of that steel. Most steels are made to the recipe the steel manufacturer recommended. It takes someone like BBB to see what the extreme possibilities are for a steel. I think for arguments sake, we pick the parameters desired and then see what steels can do that then see who makes the fine tuned qualities that we want want within that specific steel and if we are lucky to find a manufacturer that makes what we like from that steel or get a custom knife made. I love the pursuit of extremes and the science of the possible and that is why I talk about new materials like ceramics and diamonds in steels. It takes dreamers to make new realities. I fell in love with LC200N and it is my wife of steels but I do get distracted by a few other intriguing steels or non steels like ceramic or dendritic cobalt. It is amazing that we can get so many exotic steels thanks to Spyderco leading the way and creating a market for us nerds to have something to argue about
For everyone hour spent arguing about steel, we should spend 10 hours using the steel and we will see the arguments go away and an hour of sharpening will give you ten hours of use. Give a man a knife and it will be dull. Teach a man to sharpen and it will never be dull.
Some people just want “the best” and that is good. Some people see the best is having many steels and some want the unicorn of steel that will do everything well then fight over traits of the unicorn like how many spirals of the horn or glitter vs rainbow farts.
For everyone hour spent arguing about steel, we should spend 10 hours using the steel and we will see the arguments go away and an hour of sharpening will give you ten hours of use. Give a man a knife and it will be dull. Teach a man to sharpen and it will never be dull.
Some people just want “the best” and that is good. Some people see the best is having many steels and some want the unicorn of steel that will do everything well then fight over traits of the unicorn like how many spirals of the horn or glitter vs rainbow farts.
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Re: So what's the top contender for all around "super steel" these days?
Cruwear K390 Rex45
The more I use the knives the less I want supersteels as sharpening is not that easy. And S30V is still quite good.
But I do not cut for a living or as a hobby.
The more I use the knives the less I want supersteels as sharpening is not that easy. And S30V is still quite good.
But I do not cut for a living or as a hobby.
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Re: So what's the top contender for all around "super steel" these days?
I'm going to throw my opinion out here, just for fun. I'm quite fond of S90V for a stainless supersteel, as it has a pretty fair balance of edge holding, stain resistance, and toughness.
Honestly S30V and its spawn are pretty darn good, even after all these years. I have a couple S45VN knives and am happy with the incremental upgrades they have done, although the differences are rather subtle and nothing to worry about unless you're really into playing with steels.
If stain resistance isn't an issue, K390 is very good stuff. I've been enjoying it a lot, and it so far has been relatively easy to sharpen and reprofile for me. Fun stuff.
Honorable mention goes to LC200N. Good for those parts of my life that involve lots of sweat, rain, or time in water.
I do have a knife in MagnaCut from a custom maker. Strangely I have not yet truly put it to enough work to form a loud and proud opinion. Edge holding is right where it says by the specs. My blade has a nicely thin convex that holds up great for my purpose. Best I can say at this point is that there are no surprises and I intend to try more knives with it in the future. Going to be out camping for the next week so hoping to do more with it during that time.
Honestly S30V and its spawn are pretty darn good, even after all these years. I have a couple S45VN knives and am happy with the incremental upgrades they have done, although the differences are rather subtle and nothing to worry about unless you're really into playing with steels.
If stain resistance isn't an issue, K390 is very good stuff. I've been enjoying it a lot, and it so far has been relatively easy to sharpen and reprofile for me. Fun stuff.
Honorable mention goes to LC200N. Good for those parts of my life that involve lots of sweat, rain, or time in water.
I do have a knife in MagnaCut from a custom maker. Strangely I have not yet truly put it to enough work to form a loud and proud opinion. Edge holding is right where it says by the specs. My blade has a nicely thin convex that holds up great for my purpose. Best I can say at this point is that there are no surprises and I intend to try more knives with it in the future. Going to be out camping for the next week so hoping to do more with it during that time.
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Re: So what's the top contender for all around "super steel" these days?
The best all around steel is still CPM Cruwear.
The best all around super steel is still S90V. Which is better than the much hyped M390 family in my opinion.
The best all around stainless steel is an entire pile of steels. I mentioned that I put steels into categories that are similar and that I largely see them as interchangable. I agree with David’s post and he may have been referencing my comment. I think S30V, S35VN, S45VN, XHP, Elmax and CPM 154 are all in one category and depending on how broad of a brush you use possibly Spy27, BD1N and Super Gold 2. There are so many steels in this group because they all balance the attributes we value fairly well. Those being not only corrosion resistance, toughness and edge retention but also cost and ease of sharpening. I think that in a blind test many would struggle to tell those first six apart and some may struggle with the latter three as well. At one point in time these would all have been called super steels and they all still work well. Again, of all the groups I could put steels in this is one of the largest and it is for a reason.
The best all around super steel is still S90V. Which is better than the much hyped M390 family in my opinion.
The best all around stainless steel is an entire pile of steels. I mentioned that I put steels into categories that are similar and that I largely see them as interchangable. I agree with David’s post and he may have been referencing my comment. I think S30V, S35VN, S45VN, XHP, Elmax and CPM 154 are all in one category and depending on how broad of a brush you use possibly Spy27, BD1N and Super Gold 2. There are so many steels in this group because they all balance the attributes we value fairly well. Those being not only corrosion resistance, toughness and edge retention but also cost and ease of sharpening. I think that in a blind test many would struggle to tell those first six apart and some may struggle with the latter three as well. At one point in time these would all have been called super steels and they all still work well. Again, of all the groups I could put steels in this is one of the largest and it is for a reason.
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Re: So what's the top contender for all around "super steel" these days?
Certainly not. For stainless steels that are used in saltwater applications they actually have much more stringent alloying requirements than H1 has. Such as a low carbon maximum, and increased Cr and Mo.
http://www.KnifeSteelNerds.com - Steel Metallurgy topics related to knives
Re: So what's the top contender for all around "super steel" these days?
I know there are special steels (eg submarine material), but I meant among known knife steels H1 is the best AFAIK.
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Re: So what's the top contender for all around "super steel" these days?
Unobtanium bcuz the grass is always greener on the other side.
However I'm very partial to rex45 as a standby option. If I had more real use on cruwear, h1, lc200n, bd1n, and spy27, I could provide a choice based thru experience. Magna Cut is just not available yet. And I'm looking forward to what I call the Larrin-site steel which appears to be a top contender on paper of course.
However I'm very partial to rex45 as a standby option. If I had more real use on cruwear, h1, lc200n, bd1n, and spy27, I could provide a choice based thru experience. Magna Cut is just not available yet. And I'm looking forward to what I call the Larrin-site steel which appears to be a top contender on paper of course.
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Re: So what's the top contender for all around "super steel" these days?
I’ve seen tests where someone left a LC200N knife in seawater for a week and the blade didn’t rust. I think Nick Shabazz left a Vanax knife in his shower for 2 weeks without rusting. H1 by all accounts is better than either of them for rust resistance. It’s no jive.
Re: So what's the top contender for all around "super steel" these days?
For my uses H1 is rust proof, even if there are certain chemicals out there that could cause it to corrode.
I have H1 knives from the very first runs of Pacific Salts, Tasman Salts etc., that have been exposed to heavily corrosive materials countless times over the past 10-15 years.
Zero rust on every H1 knife I've owned.
To me that is a lot bigger of a deal than steels that exceed, say, VG10's edge holding.
Re: So what's the top contender for all around "super steel" these days?
I understand what you are saying and I don't disagree. I would be one that might not be able to detect much difference although I know the "on paper" properties and won't respect a lesser steel. Even though I have my only K390 in my pocket now, most of my use these days is M4 and Rex45, with S110V behind that. I think if a person expresses desire for a limited production super steel they would be perfectly well off to just get S110V.
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Re: So what's the top contender for all around "super steel" these days?
Best all arounder?
CPM MagnaCut.
More stainless than M390
As tough and wear resistant as CPM 4V if at the same hardness but MagnaCut also has finer carbides than CPM 4v and CPM Cruwear.
CPM MagnaCut.
More stainless than M390
As tough and wear resistant as CPM 4V if at the same hardness but MagnaCut also has finer carbides than CPM 4v and CPM Cruwear.
sbaker345 wrote: ↑Mon Aug 02, 2021 12:04 amBack when I first got into knives M390 with CTS 204P were both highly regarded as perhaps the ideal blend of amazing corrosion resistance, top tier edge retention yet also quite tough, Though S110V was king as far as edge retention as far I remember while also being absurdly corrosion resistant, while I found S110V to be quite tough, at least far tougher than claimed. I do feel like it also being one of if not the most difficult steels to sharpen for most people probably relegates it more towards a specialty steel.
So what's the current verdict on the contenders for best all around "super steel". Knives that have top tier edge retention, great toughness and yet still remain very much stainless, rather than "semi stainless" like 3V.
Re: So what's the top contender for all around "super steel" these days?
Magnacut sounds interesting and looking forward to it. But for now..
4V in a Province is a great match of tool and steel. Whether on a camping trip or clearing brush, don't want to stop and resharpen. Working edges do matter.
S110V or S90V around saltwater. My poor abused S110V PM2. Sand and salt. Just keeps cutting and cleans up later.
VG10 may not be the latest thing, but in the kitchen, it's still the price/performance choice for me
Maxamet for general EDC, Because the way it holds an edge borders on amazing and I find this highly entertaining.
4V in a Province is a great match of tool and steel. Whether on a camping trip or clearing brush, don't want to stop and resharpen. Working edges do matter.
S110V or S90V around saltwater. My poor abused S110V PM2. Sand and salt. Just keeps cutting and cleans up later.
VG10 may not be the latest thing, but in the kitchen, it's still the price/performance choice for me
Maxamet for general EDC, Because the way it holds an edge borders on amazing and I find this highly entertaining.
Re: So what's the top contender for all around "super steel" these days?
I've been working with Vanax SC and LC200N for a little over 3 years now and Lance Clinton has 4 or 5 Vanax knives I made (at least) that he's been testing in salt water and high humidity all that time and the only corrosion that has occurred has been galvanic corrosion. No rust as we would usually think of it. It is reactive with yellow metals so brass eyelets in a sheath that was allowed to stay wet with salt water (an alkaline solution) for enough time did cause a small reaction. Other than that it seems safe to say it's basically rust proof.
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Re: So what's the top contender for all around "super steel" these days?
My answer/opinion to the OP's title question is Magnacut is the best all around knife steel.
:spyder: Spyderco fan and collector since 1991. :spyder:
Father of 2, nature explorer, custom knife maker.
@ckc_knifemaker on Instagram.
Father of 2, nature explorer, custom knife maker.
@ckc_knifemaker on Instagram.
Re: So what's the top contender for all around "super steel" these days?
I personally cannot say what is the best all-around knife steel, only what I think it might be *for me, at the moment*.
And for me, that would probably be LC200N. Even though I only own one knife in that steel. I think it has a great combination of properties (almost rustproof for most uses, takes a great edge, decent to good edge-holding, easy to resharpen, fairly tough). Is it perfect? There is nothing made by humans that is perfect.
For many people, high corrosion resistance means nothing, which is fine for them. Corrosion resistance is important to me, though. What may be as close to ideal as possible for me will not be for someone else. Some people love tool steel knife blades. I prefer stainless, preferably with extremely high corrosion resistance and easy to resharpen. Not that my sweat is particularly corrosive to blades; it is not. I simply prefer knives that require that much less maintenance and worries when out and about and during use. Others like patina and such.
I know carbon steel blades; as a kid, my first knives were all straight carbon that patina’d, or developed rust that always had to be cleaned. When I discovered stainless pocketknives, I never went back. I later spent many years overseas in a country with extremely high humidity that would have turned my straight carbon steel folders into rusted messes very quickly, just from sitting in my pocket, if I had taken them there. Stainless made a BIG difference.
I would rate LC200N as a so-called “super steel.” It doesn’t need to hold an edge “forever” and be finicky to resharpen to qualify as a super steel. There may be some steel that’s even more ideal for my purposes, but if there is, it’s either not been invented yet, or has been, but is not in general use yet for me to even know.
Jim
And for me, that would probably be LC200N. Even though I only own one knife in that steel. I think it has a great combination of properties (almost rustproof for most uses, takes a great edge, decent to good edge-holding, easy to resharpen, fairly tough). Is it perfect? There is nothing made by humans that is perfect.
For many people, high corrosion resistance means nothing, which is fine for them. Corrosion resistance is important to me, though. What may be as close to ideal as possible for me will not be for someone else. Some people love tool steel knife blades. I prefer stainless, preferably with extremely high corrosion resistance and easy to resharpen. Not that my sweat is particularly corrosive to blades; it is not. I simply prefer knives that require that much less maintenance and worries when out and about and during use. Others like patina and such.
I know carbon steel blades; as a kid, my first knives were all straight carbon that patina’d, or developed rust that always had to be cleaned. When I discovered stainless pocketknives, I never went back. I later spent many years overseas in a country with extremely high humidity that would have turned my straight carbon steel folders into rusted messes very quickly, just from sitting in my pocket, if I had taken them there. Stainless made a BIG difference.
I would rate LC200N as a so-called “super steel.” It doesn’t need to hold an edge “forever” and be finicky to resharpen to qualify as a super steel. There may be some steel that’s even more ideal for my purposes, but if there is, it’s either not been invented yet, or has been, but is not in general use yet for me to even know.
Jim
Re: So what's the top contender for all around "super steel" these days?
H1 buddy. better toughness than LC200N. Less edge retention for sure, but see vivi's exploration revolutionizing the capability of H1, making it a viable edc steel! (tl:dr, low grit sharpening utilizes the toughness to keep the edge sharp)Fireman wrote: ↑Mon Aug 02, 2021 2:20 amSuper is subjective based on what you will put it through (literal and non literal)
Corrosion resistance
I live and work by or on the ocean and I expose knives to water and or sweat so my corrosion needs are high but not essential.
Toughness
I need a knife to be tough because of the potential tasks I may need it to do where a dull knife is better than a broken knife in an emergency situation so my needs rank this as essential, above high.
Edge retention
A dull knife can be dangerous in terms of not performing in an emergency situation but I sharpen regularly because that is my habit over decades so edge retention would be essential for most but for be it ranks as high I keep with me at least one means of sharpening.
Ease of sharpening
This is ranked as high for me based on my usage and frequency of sharpening.
The one available steel that meets these requirements for me is LC200N.
Your “super” may vary.
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Re: So what's the top contender for all around "super steel" these days?
Looking forward to Vivi's follow up toothy testing of LC200N in comparison to H1. LC200N seems pretty durn tough and in my experience does really well with a toothy edge. Pretty good with smooth polished, too. Your choice.