Affording the Necessary Stones for Super Steels

[Bolster]

As Spyderco's steels (and everybody else's, too) get more "super" and harder, with more carbides, I'm seeing the need to upgrade my stones, so that I can have an edge that's cut into an apex, rather than just eroded into an apex. I'm splurging for some Venev diamond resin stones (the Orion series) but just two have set me back $80.

Until I can afford a complete suite of diamonds, I've opted for a 150 (FEPA F), fairly coarse for hogging steel, and an 800 (FEPA F), for putting on a final (or near final) edge. I plan to "cheat" the intermediate steps with my previous stock EdgePro stones, which I believe are boride.

What's your opinion of this plan, for using the intermediate boride stones for cost savings, until I can afford more diamond stones? The boride will of course be more likely to "erode" than "cut" into shape, but I'm hoping the final edge with 800 diamond will give a decent edge.

What say you?

[vivi]

Try one of these out

https://www.harborfreight.com/4-sided-d ... 92867.html

I've used a lot of higher end stones but I love this one. I consistently get shaving sharpness off the 200 grit and it's an amazing slicer with that coarse of an edge.

[VashHash]

I just use a dmt black diafold most of the time. Sometimes I'll use a dmt blue. Haven't met anything I can't sharpen yet. The newer stones are tempting for faster cutting though. Thinking about grabbing one of the 8" dmt bench stones.

[razehound]

Try one of these out

https://www.harborfreight.com/4-sided-d ... 92867.html

I've used a lot of higher end stones but I love this one. I consistently get shaving sharpness off the 200 grit and it's an amazing slicer with that coarse of an edge.

How does it compare to the sharpmaker diamond rods? Even using those M390/etc take forever to back bevel

[Josh Crutchley]

As Spyderco's steels (and everybody else's, too) get more "super" and harder, with more carbides, I'm seeing the need to upgrade my stones, so that I can have an edge that's cut into an apex, rather than just eroded into an apex. I'm splurging for some Venev diamond resin stones (the Orion series) but just two have set me back $80.

Until I can afford a complete suite of diamonds, I've opted for a 150, fairly coarse for hogging steel, and an 800, for putting on a final (or near final) edge. I plan to "cheat" the intermediate steps with my previous stock EdgePro stones, which I believe are boride.

What's your opinion of this plan, for using the intermediate boride stones for cost savings, until I can afford more diamond stones? The boride will of course be more likely to "erode" than "cut" into shape, but I'm hoping the final edge with 800 diamond will give a decent edge.

What say you?

When I first started I used a Smith's double sided 325/750 diamond stone for about $15usd. I like smaller stones, about Edge Pro size is the best for me when it comes to freehand. I learned to sharpen while holding the stone so I never liked wide ones.

I also have the ones Vivi mentioned and was surprised at the quality for the price. The 4 sided thing didn't do it for me so I removed all the plates and epoxied them to separate pieces of flat hardwood.

Lately I've been trying to move away from the interrupted surface plates like Harbor Freight or DMT in favor of Venev OCB in the Centaur size.
https://www.gritomatic.com/collections/ ... 5756948589

800 grit is fine before moving to strops. I don't have experience with boride stones so no comment on that.

[vivi]

I've tried some boride stones in the 100-300 grit range and I was unimpressed with both their cutting speed and the final edge they gave me.

Try one of these out

https://www.harborfreight.com/4-sided-d ... 92867.html

I've used a lot of higher end stones but I love this one. I consistently get shaving sharpness off the 200 grit and it's an amazing slicer with that coarse of an edge.

How does it compare to the sharpmaker diamond rods? Even using those M390/etc take forever to back bevel

I thonk the sharpmaker rods are closest to the 400 grit side if memory serves correct. I know the 200 grit side I use is noticeably coarser. Between that and the wider surface, they'll speed up reprofiling.

The only knives I reprofile with a sharpmaker are serrated knives using the diamond rods. For PE I use bench stones like the one I mentioned.

[Evil D]

Here ya go. Dirt cheap, very effective. Not very big so maybe not the best for freehand but they mount up to Edge Pro blanks if you order the right size.

https://www.congresstools.com/catalog/c ... ory/?id=27

[Bolster]

Here ya go. Dirt cheap, very effective. Not very big so maybe not the best for freehand but they mount up to Edge Pro blanks if you order the right size.

https://www.congresstools.com/catalog/c ... ory/?id=27

Say, that's a good idea! Thumb up.

Specifically, I was wondering about the idea of spending for the low and the high diamond grits, and using some other stone (such as the sili carbide above) for the INTERMEDIATE grits.

[razehound]

I thonk the sharpmaker rods are closest to the 400 grit side if memory serves correct. I know the 200 grit side I use is noticeably coarser. Between that and the wider surface, they'll speed up reprofiling.

The only knives I reprofile with a sharpmaker are serrated knives using the diamond rods. For PE I use bench stones like the one I mentioned.

Gotcha. Now I'm semi-new to freehand, and don't want to screw up any 'nice' knives. Is there a angle guide you know of that works well to help me get more confident in my angles?

[Chuck James]

I've been sharpening knives free hand for over 45 years, bit the bullet and picked up a Wicked Edge about 2 months ago.
All I can say is.....It is worth every penny.

[p_atrick]

Specifically, I was wondering about the idea of spending for the low and the high diamond grits...

Are there several high-grit, bonded diamond stones? Venev goes up to 1200. Triple B had a 5000 grit super vitrified stone. I haven't really looked into this part of the sharpening spectrum, but there seems to be less variety.

[Cambertree]

Silicon carbide will work fine and is relatively inexpensive.

I prefer the Atomas to the Venevs for coarse stock removal. The Venevs load up more quickly whereas the Atomas allow swarf to flush away.

I use the Atoma 140 for maybe 85% of all my sharpening.

A diamond or CBN stone in the 400-600 grit range would be useful, as it’s worth experimenting with apex finishes in that range if you haven’t already.

P_at, there are Naniwa diamond stones in 3000 and 5000 grit. My understanding is there can be issues with abrasive clumping when diamonds get finer than about 1200 grit. The Venev 1200 is about equivalent to AISI/JIS 2000 grit.

[S-3 ranch]

A no frills DMT duel grit folding diamond or a

Worksharp guided
SHARPEN ANY SHAPE OF BLADE

Curved blades, straight blades, serrations, tools, hooks, and fine points are all ideal for the Guided Sharpening System™ with Pivot-Response® table.

DIFFERENT ANGLES FOR DIFFERENT KNIVES

The Guided Sharpening System™ includes two angle guides (17° and 20°) to ensure your knife has the right edge. There are even more angle options in our expansion pack.


SHAPE, SHARPEN, AND REPAIR

Two included diamond plates (with two optional add-ons), two ceramic hone grits, and three ceramic sizes enable you to customize the Guided Sharpening System™ to the job at hand, from repairing a chipped blade to putting the final edge on your blade.

Or $57 rod guided

The Work Sharp Precision Adjust Knife Sharpener™ is an angle adjustable, three abrasive grit, knife sharpening system that delivers precision and repeatability. Sharpening Angle can be easily adjusted from 15° to 30° in 1° increments to sharpen every knife you own. Tri-Brasive™ includes coarse 320 and fine 600 grit diamond plates to quickly restore a sharp edge, and a fine grit ceramic stone to hone an incredibly keen edge on your knives. Innovative clamp design quickly and safely secures the knife. Sharpening base provides a stable platform for benchtop sharpening.

WHAT’S IN THE BOX?
Tri-Brasive® Sharpening Stone: 320 & 600 Grit Diamond, Fine Ceramic
Angle Adjustable Sharpening Chassis
Benchtop Sharpening Base
Knife Clamp
Sharpening Slide Rod

All these sharpening equipment work on high hrc tool steel ( maxamet, Rex 121 , s390 , s110v ) :)

[soc_monki]

Sharpal diamond stone, 320/1200. Also have a dmt 220 glued to a wood block, a 600 dmt interrupted stone, and spyderco medium and fine for even finer edges.

You can get by with just the Sharpal for a while. It's affordable, lasts (had mine for over a year, still going strong) and you can add more stones as your needs dictate.

Plus, absolutely no lubes needed.

[Bolster]

Silicon carbide will work fine and is relatively inexpensive. ...I use the Atoma 140 for maybe 85% of all my sharpening....A diamond or CBN stone in the 400-600 grit range would be useful ....

Thanks Camber, I think you answered all my questions in 'one swell foop.'

[Cambertree]

Silicon carbide will work fine and is relatively inexpensive. ...I use the Atoma 140 for maybe 85% of all my sharpening....A diamond or CBN stone in the 400-600 grit range would be useful ....

Thanks Camber, I think you answered all my questions in 'one swell foop.'

Ha ha, no worries. Let us know how you go with that. :)

[dj moonbat]

I've never regretted any of the money I've spent on diamond stones. For me, the extravagant hardness is almost beside the point. What I'm really getting with diamond stones is long-term flatness and most importantly, zero glazing.

If a bunch of swarf gets into an oilstone it will slow the **** out of the stone's cutting action, no matter what abrasive is in there. But there's no porous structure to a diamond plate; the swarf just stays there on top until you wipe it off. This, plus the flatness, means you never have to grind away the top of the stone to get a good new working surface. To me, having lapped a stone or two in my day, this is a big deal.

And, of course, if you're going to be lapping oilstones, you're probably going to want a diamond stone for that.

[Matus]

I would get one or two of the 1x6" Centaur Venev stones and be done with it for a long time. I got the 150 (100/80 or ca. 150 JIS grit) - and it is crazy coarse. Like for the most brutal repairs only, not for sharpening, because it leaves massive teeth (I would rather call that micro-chipping). I do think however that the 150 and 800 (I assume you mean JIS grit, not the F-FEPA) are too far apart. I would add a 320/400 (JIS) stone in between.

In fact, I am about to add the Centaur 40/28 & 20/14 (so about 320 and 800 JIS) stone for travel for pocket knives. I plant to make a little plastic holder to make the stone easier when free hand sharpening (stone in one hand, knife in another).

I think the price of around $40 is very reasonable for a solution that will last you a long time. Make yourself a little leather strop to go with it, put some 10 micron (give or take) diamond paste and you are done.

I already have two full size diamond stones from Practical Sharpening in 400 and 2000 grit that I use mainly for my kitchen knives, but I don't want to carry those around.

BTW - we often hear how people get fine edges off coarse diamond plates (not stones) - that is no surprise IMO. As those stones wear down, they get slower and produce finer finish. Plus they function in general differently as they don't release any abrasive.

[Josh1973]

I gave up stones and went to Worksharp Ken Onion edition. Slap that knife in them belts on slow speed. Take your time and don't overheat the edge. And Viola! Done and razor sharp.

[JRinFL]

Silicon carbide will work fine and is relatively inexpensive. ...I use the Atoma 140 for maybe 85% of all my sharpening....A diamond or CBN stone in the 400-600 grit range would be useful ....

Thanks Camber, I think you answered all my questions in 'one swell foop.'

House Bolster awarded 100 Internet Points for the use of "one swell foop"! I thought I was the only one to remember that.