H1 is the perfect EDC steel. Change my mind..

[Mike Slayer]

Well, 3 years later my opinion hasn't changed much, except that I'd also throw LC200N into the mix and generally will choose whichever steel comes in the knife I'm looking at buying. In situations where a knife is available in both (Pacific) I think I'd choose LC just to get a FFG blade.


I also suspect MagnaCut is about to come into this fight absolutely swinging. Sal has mentioned a couple times that he's very impressed with how corrosion resistant it has been and the toughness and edge retention will be as good or better than H1/LC, toughness maybe not quite to the point of H1 but plenty good enough for even outright hard use and abuse. It sounds like MagnaCut will be all of the good things that H1 has going for it plus at least S30V level edge retention.

I love LC200N to death because it takes a very sharp edge, holds the edge well with really good toughness and sharpens/strops up very easily . The edge holding is the thing that seems to be all over the place depending on the person. The numbers are interesting and impressive or not so much depending on your perspective. If you deal with nothing but edge retention monsters of steel then yes it's not impressive. My perspective is slightly different than a lot of people I think.

I have played with high edge retention steels and they are awesome until you have to sharpen or repair the edge. Even then with the right tools it's not a big deal it just takes more time. When I was a kid I came up with a SAK, Case or Old timer in my pocket. I have always been around farms and other types of places that are commonly found in the more rural areas. All the things I did up into my late teens I never felt like the steel in those knives were never enough to get the job done until the end of the day. At the end of the day I would strop my pocket knife or repair the edge if needed. The edge retention and/or corrosion resistance left a bit to be desired.


Since those days I did chase the edge retention bug for along time but in that chase I lost sight of what I always really wanted. A balanced steel perfect for EDC. LC200N is that steel for me and probably always will be. H1 I have respect for because of the ease of maintenance like LC200N. I do plan to pick up a serrated H1 blade of some flavor at some point. CPM Magnacut caught my attention after talking to Larrin and reading his article about. It seems really well balanced which is why I love LC200N. Balance is the most important thing to me when it comes to my steel choice. Like you H1, LC200N and CPM Magnacut looks like it could be my perfect Trio of alloy choices for my EDC folders. For me balanced alloys are far superior to others that sacrifice certain attributes to load up others.


Don't get me wrong I still enjoy the high edge retention steels because they are fun to use and test while impressing the **** out of your friends. I just compare todays steels to older steels that use to be common place in my youth since I used them for so long and they worked for me back then. They would still work just as well today but like all of us we will take every advantage we can get since it's our natural instincts to do so.


Like a lot of things in life I try to find balance and remember where I came from while moving forward. My steel choices are no different.

[cabfrank]

Well said. Makes sense.

[Evil D]

When I was a kid I came up with a SAK, Case or Old timer in my pocket. I have always been around farms and other types of places that are commonly found in the more rural areas. All the things I did up into my late teens I never felt like the steel in those knives were never enough to get the job done until the end of the day. At the end of the day I would strop my pocket knife or repair the edge if needed. The edge retention and/or corrosion resistance left a bit to be desired.

Yep, I came from that same generation. My first knife was a Case that I found while walking down a back road (back back BACK road) in Corinth Kentucky, I was about 6-7 years old. I used that knife and an assortment of Buck and cheaper knives all the way up until around 2005. Maybe we just accepted that using a knife meant you'd dull the edge and that was just the reality of using that kind of tool. I really didn't even put much thought into steel type beyond stainless or non stainless.

In some ways I feel like people have just gotten really lazy with sharpening. I mean REALLY lazy. I used my Autonomy yesterday at work and dulled it a little, so this morning before I left for work I walked over to my Sharpmaker and I didn't spend 60 seconds touching up the edge to bring it back to peak sharpness. A guy will waste more of his time typing out a post to complain about poor edge retention than he would just touching up his edge. Don't get me wrong, I've had jobs where I actually needed hardcore edge retention where I would have blunted PE H1 before my day was over, but I think most people who chase edge retention have this fantasy of going weeks at a time without sharpening because to them it's a hassle to sharpen in the first place. I think there are plenty of steels that offer a nice compromise where you can realistically go a few days without needing to sharpen and still keep a reasonably sharp edge, but I also think that if you're willing to take just a minute or two each day making a few swipes on a Sharpmaker you'll end up carrying a sharper knife more often than you will if you depend on edge retention and a working edge.

Think about it like this...a guy carries a knife in Maxamet and I carry a knife in H1. Neither of us have jobs/tasks that require us to cut 100 miles of material so neither of us will totally dull our edge in one day. The Maxamet guy lets his knife go without sharpening for weeks at a time because "it holds an edge so well" while I spend my 60 seconds each morning touching up my edge while standing in the kitchen waiting for my coffee to brew. If the Maxamet guy sharpened his knife on the first of the month and used it everyday, then we get to around 2 weeks or so and we both pull our knives out at the start of the day, who has the sharper knife?

It's like comparing a long distance runner who's exhausted and in the middle of a grueling marathon to a world champion 400 meter sprinter who's just warmed up for a sprint and asking the two to race around the block.

[cabfrank]

I absolutely agree, and I doubt I will ever be able to get Maxamet sharp, but H1, I can. I just wish I could reprofile like you guys do, to make this even better.

[James Y]

Well, 3 years later my opinion hasn't changed much, except that I'd also throw LC200N into the mix and generally will choose whichever steel comes in the knife I'm looking at buying. In situations where a knife is available in both (Pacific) I think I'd choose LC just to get a FFG blade.


I also suspect MagnaCut is about to come into this fight absolutely swinging. Sal has mentioned a couple times that he's very impressed with how corrosion resistant it has been and the toughness and edge retention will be as good or better than H1/LC, toughness maybe not quite to the point of H1 but plenty good enough for even outright hard use and abuse. It sounds like MagnaCut will be all of the good things that H1 has going for it plus at least S30V level edge retention.

I love LC200N to death because it takes a very sharp edge, holds the edge well with really good toughness and sharpens/strops up very easily . The edge holding is the thing that seems to be all over the place depending on the person. The numbers are interesting and impressive or not so much depending on your perspective. If you deal with nothing but edge retention monsters of steel then yes it's not impressive. My perspective is slightly different than a lot of people I think.

I have played with high edge retention steels and they are awesome until you have to sharpen or repair the edge. Even then with the right tools it's not a big deal it just takes more time. When I was a kid I came up with a SAK, Case or Old timer in my pocket. I have always been around farms and other types of places that are commonly found in the more rural areas. All the things I did up into my late teens I never felt like the steel in those knives were never enough to get the job done until the end of the day. At the end of the day I would strop my pocket knife or repair the edge if needed. The edge retention and/or corrosion resistance left a bit to be desired.


Since those days I did chase the edge retention bug for along time but in that chase I lost sight of what I always really wanted. A balanced steel perfect for EDC. LC200N is that steel for me and probably always will be. H1 I have respect for because of the ease of maintenance like LC200N. I do plan to pick up a serrated H1 blade of some flavor at some point. CPM Magnacut caught my attention after talking to Larrin and reading his article about. It seems really well balanced which is why I love LC200N. Balance is the most important thing to me when it comes to my steel choice. Like you H1, LC200N and CPM Magnacut looks like it could be my perfect Trio of alloy choices for my EDC folders. For me balanced alloys are far superior to others that sacrifice certain attributes to load up others.


Don't get me wrong I still enjoy the high edge retention steels because they are fun to use and test while impressing the **** out of your friends. I just compare todays steels to older steels that use to be common place in my youth since I used them for so long and they worked for me back then. They would still work just as well today but like all of us we will take every advantage we can get since it's our natural instincts to do so.


Like a lot of things in life I try to find balance and remember where I came from while moving forward. My steel choices are no different.

I agree with this.

I grew up carrying Schrade/Old Timer, an old Camillus-made Buck Cadet, Ka-Bar pocketknives, and SAKs since the 1970s. A single SAK was the only knife I took with me when I lived overseas, and for another few years after I came back. It did all that I needed from a pocketknife. Were there times I wished for better edge retention? You bet. But its blades were easy to touch up on the bottom of a ceramic coffee mug, if necessary. And Victorinox’s steel is very corrosion-resistant; that SAK held up in the extreme humidity of living in Taiwan with minimal maintenance. I still carry SAKs today.

I value all-around qualities in a steel over super edge-holding, but that’s just me. There are some people who tout the superiority of super-steels that “hold an edge forever,” but admit to always touching up the edges at the end of every day, or even after every use, to avoid the full resharpening if the edge ever loses its sharpness. Which IMO, is really no different from touching up a steel with inferior edge-holding a little more often, except that the latter involves less worry, and isn’t always needed as often as some people think. Which is why I like steels such as VG-10, LC200N, H1, etc. I am hoping to try out Magnacut someday.

Jim

[Doc Dan]

So...should H1 be the standard base Japanese steel instead of VG-10? Should all Japanese Spydercos be salts?

[JRinFL]

How can H1 be the perfect EDC steel when Cruwear already is? :eek: :)

Magnaucut is where I want to be, ultimately.

[vivi]

When I was a kid I came up with a SAK, Case or Old timer in my pocket. I have always been around farms and other types of places that are commonly found in the more rural areas. All the things I did up into my late teens I never felt like the steel in those knives were never enough to get the job done until the end of the day. At the end of the day I would strop my pocket knife or repair the edge if needed. The edge retention and/or corrosion resistance left a bit to be desired.

Yep, I came from that same generation. My first knife was a Case that I found while walking down a back road (back back BACK road) in Corinth Kentucky, I was about 6-7 years old. I used that knife and an assortment of Buck and cheaper knives all the way up until around 2005. Maybe we just accepted that using a knife meant you'd dull the edge and that was just the reality of using that kind of tool. I really didn't even put much thought into steel type beyond stainless or non stainless.

In some ways I feel like people have just gotten really lazy with sharpening. I mean REALLY lazy. I used my Autonomy yesterday at work and dulled it a little, so this morning before I left for work I walked over to my Sharpmaker and I didn't spend 60 seconds touching up the edge to bring it back to peak sharpness. A guy will waste more of his time typing out a post to complain about poor edge retention than he would just touching up his edge. Don't get me wrong, I've had jobs where I actually needed hardcore edge retention where I would have blunted PE H1 before my day was over, but I think most people who chase edge retention have this fantasy of going weeks at a time without sharpening because to them it's a hassle to sharpen in the first place. I think there are plenty of steels that offer a nice compromise where you can realistically go a few days without needing to sharpen and still keep a reasonably sharp edge, but I also think that if you're willing to take just a minute or two each day making a few swipes on a Sharpmaker you'll end up carrying a sharper knife more often than you will if you depend on edge retention and a working edge.

Think about it like this...a guy carries a knife in Maxamet and I carry a knife in H1. Neither of us have jobs/tasks that require us to cut 100 miles of material so neither of us will totally dull our edge in one day. The Maxamet guy lets his knife go without sharpening for weeks at a time because "it holds an edge so well" while I spend my 60 seconds each morning touching up my edge while standing in the kitchen waiting for my coffee to brew. If the Maxamet guy sharpened his knife on the first of the month and used it everyday, then we get to around 2 weeks or so and we both pull our knives out at the start of the day, who has the sharper knife?

It's like comparing a long distance runner who's exhausted and in the middle of a grueling marathon to a world champion 400 meter sprinter who's just warmed up for a sprint and asking the two to race around the block.

H1 can go weeks without sharpening too, depending on the edge you give it. I sharpened my EDC on the 5th and it still cuts great. Just broke down some cardboard with it.

[Mike Slayer]

H1 can go weeks without sharpening too, depending on the edge you give it. I sharpened my EDC on the 5th and it still cuts great. Just broke down some cardboard with it.

That brings up another good point I think a lot of people have lost sight of. We see all these test on the net showing edge retention. They use different things to judge the sharpness at different intervals when cutting cardboard, rope or whatever they are using. Cleanly slicing paper or shaving hair are two of the common ones used. What people forget is long after that you still have an outstanding "working edge" especially if the blade has good geometry. It will continue to do work for along time. That is what I really want to see more test on. Take it to a point where it's truly dull. Higher wear resistant steels would hold that working edge evening longer I would think.

On one of my longest outings during some survival training my two cutting tools were an ESEE lite machete in 1075 and a Mora 510 in carbon steel. They could both whittle hair at the start of the training. After those 10 days my edges were getting pretty worn. I didn't take any sharpening supplies because it wasn't allowed. We had a specific list of stuff we could bring and it wasn't much. If I had to guess that trip equaled about 3-4x normal EDC wear maybe even a little more. That was using basic high carbon steels so with a steel like LC200N that has more edge retention but still sharpens and strops easily like high carbon steels I think it would be worth having.

[Evil D]

H1 can go weeks without sharpening too, depending on the edge you give it. I sharpened my EDC on the 5th and it still cuts great. Just broke down some cardboard with it.

Well, playing devil's advocate here, I think the counter argument would be that any kind of specific sharpening technique you can apply to H1 to make edge retention better can also be applied to the next steel and get similar "gains" so my stance is just from the average person doing average sharpening.

[JRinFL]

H1 can go weeks without sharpening too, depending on the edge you give it. I sharpened my EDC on the 5th and it still cuts great. Just broke down some cardboard with it.

Well, playing devil's advocate here, I think the counter argument would be that any kind of specific sharpening technique you can apply to H1 to make edge retention better can also be applied to the next steel and get similar "gains" so my stance is just from the average person doing average sharpening.

Only to a certain point. H1's toughness should allow a very thin edge, below what some steels will accept and still be usable as an EDC. As the experts keep telling us, geometry cuts.

[vivi]

H1 can go weeks without sharpening too, depending on the edge you give it. I sharpened my EDC on the 5th and it still cuts great. Just broke down some cardboard with it.

Well, playing devil's advocate here, I think the counter argument would be that any kind of specific sharpening technique you can apply to H1 to make edge retention better can also be applied to the next steel and get similar "gains" so my stance is just from the average person doing average sharpening.

Another steel holding an edge longer doesn't make H1 perform any different.

I can go 3+ weeks on the same edge with H1. I can go two months with the same edge on K390....possibly longer.

But H1 still makes a better EDC steel for me, especially this time of year.

[cabfrank]

We could always change the thread title to H1 is A perfect EDC steel, because it seems to be.

[Craiger12]

Well this thread has convinced me. I will be pulling the trigger on a Dragonfly Salt SE for the keychain and a Pac Salt SE in H1 tonight.

[Mike Slayer]

Only to a certain point. H1's toughness should allow a very thin edge, below what some steels will accept and still be usable as an EDC. As the experts keep telling us, geometry cuts.

Last I checked the RC on H1 was 55-57. I wouldn't expect it to have enough strength to support thinner edge geometry at a RC that low. I would expect with it's low wear resistance, hardness and good toughness you could only get so thin of an edge before it just rolls right over. What do I know I am just a guy that loves knives so much he is aspiring to be a knifemaker full time. Sal, Larrin, Shawn and other fine members on this forum know much more than myself about such things.

[Evil D]

Only to a certain point. H1's toughness should allow a very thin edge, below what some steels will accept and still be usable as an EDC. As the experts keep telling us, geometry cuts.

Last I checked the RC on H1 was 55-57. I wouldn't expect it to have enough strength to support thinner edge geometry at a RC that low. I would expect with it's low wear resistance, hardness and good toughness you could only get so thin of an edge before it just rolls right over. What do I know I am just a guy that loves knives so much he is aspiring to be a knifemaker full time. Sal, Larrin, Shawn and other fine members on this forum know much more than myself about such things.

This is starting to get far away from the point I was making with this thread, but it's really dependant on what you use the knife for.

https://youtu.be/NTt_F0UC6vU


So, yes and no. As Cliff mentioned, maybe not suited for carving hardwood knots, but I bet that knife will break down boxes far past what most all of us would consider dull and it'll keep cutting on geometry alone.

[vivi]

Only to a certain point. H1's toughness should allow a very thin edge, below what some steels will accept and still be usable as an EDC. As the experts keep telling us, geometry cuts.

Last I checked the RC on H1 was 55-57. I wouldn't expect it to have enough strength to support thinner edge geometry at a RC that low. I would expect with it's low wear resistance, hardness and good toughness you could only get so thin of an edge before it just rolls right over. What do I know I am just a guy that loves knives so much he is aspiring to be a knifemaker full time. Sal, Larrin, Shawn and other fine members on this forum know much more than myself about such things.

I dunno if H1 can hold thinner edges than X steel, but I do know it can hold a pretty thin edge.

15 degrees inclusive:




I've taken PE quite thin too. My EDC, my Aqua Salt and this old Pacific 1:

That's thinner than most run their utility knives.

[Mike Slayer]

This is starting to get far away from the point I was making with this thread, but it's really dependant on what you use the knife for.

So, yes and no. As Cliff mentioned, maybe not suited for carving hardwood knots, but I bet that knife will break down boxes far past what most all of us would consider dull and it'll keep cutting on geometry alone.

That seems to be in line with what I am saying. On softer media it would be fine but on harder media it could have issues with a thinner geometry. For most EDC task it would work fine. I really need to get myself a serrated H1 Spyderco to use and test. Ok back to your point that LC200N is the perfect EDC steel. LOL

[Evil D]

That seems to be in line with what I am saying. On softer media it would be fine but on harder media it could have issues with a thinner geometry. For most EDC task it would work fine. I really need to get myself a serrated H1 Spyderco to use and test. Ok back to your point that LC200N is the perfect EDC steel. LOL

Well apparently SE H1 is indeed harder, so it should (and seems to) be even more capable of supporting thin edge geometry without ripping under pressure. This may be where LC has an advantage if you run your PE blades really thin since it's also a bit harder than PE H1 and may support thin edges better.

[tangent]

So...should H1 be the standard base Japanese steel instead of VG-10? Should all Japanese Spydercos be salts?

Yes, but with LC200N instead of H1.