Skeletonized Mule for Backpacking

[ArnAnders89]

[quote=Xplorer post_id=1531158 time=1623105893 user_id

:D That was where it all started for me. That was the first knife handle I ever made. I've been stuck in my garage ever since :p .

Those are just large copper tubes with fairly thick walls. I should have flared those or at least rounded them with sandpaper :eek: :o . I used one large corby to hold the scales against the tang and the 2 copper tubes are epoxied into place to provide lateral support.








Eventually I decided there were things about the way I built that first handle that bothered me so I cut those scales off and rebuilt it. This is how it looks today.


Those are also just lanyard tubes. 1/4" stainless tubing this time.


Best regards,
Chad
[/quote]

That’s sweet man! Exactly what I want to do with my first mule is those stainless tube rivets! (picked up the s45vn last drop) I’ve been trying to think of a way to flare them without an arbor press, any ideas there would be greatly appreciated!

Oh and you got me inspired to build my own kydex press! I’ve been on the fence about it but have wanted to for a while now, I was also looking into how to make leather sheaths and that wet molded leather looks pretty nice I’m going to study up on that to!

Thanks a ton man, not just for the information but also the inspiration

[Xplorer]

.. I’ve been trying to think of a way to flare them without an arbor press, any ideas there would be greatly appreciated! ...

Flaring them provides a mechanical advantage that is ideal. You'll need some sort of press or a flaring clamp at least to flare the tubes. However, if you are using water stable handle materials and good epoxy you can get away with skipping the flaring. The epoxy will hold materials like G10, CF and micarta very well.

To get the nice rounded look of a flared tube without actually flaring the tube you can cut thin strips of sandpaper and sand in a shoe-shine motion all the way around the inner circumference. Use progressively finer grits up to 2500 to get a polished look.

[ArnAnders89]

.. I’ve been trying to think of a way to flare them without an arbor press, any ideas there would be greatly appreciated! ...

Flaring them provides a mechanical advantage that is ideal. You'll need some sort of press or a flaring clamp at least to flare the tubes. However, if you are using water stable handle materials and good epoxy you can get away with skipping the flaring. The epoxy will hold materials like G10, CF and micarta very well.

To get the nice rounded look of a flared tube without actually flaring the tube you can cut thin strips of sandpaper and sand in a shoe-shine motion all the way around the inner circumference. Use progressively finer grits up to 2500 to get a polished look.

Should I get tubing that is the same size as the holes are in the mule team handle?
Can the tubes be flared after epoxy or should they be done with the epoxy is wet?

[Xplorer]

Should I get tubing that is the same size as the holes are in the mule team handle?

Not necessarily. You can make the the holes in the scales whatever size you prefer and rely on those to support the tube.

Can the tubes be flared after epoxy or should they be done with the epoxy is wet?

If you're going to actually press-flare them, you don't really need epoxy around the tube as the flaring will hold it securely in place. In that case I would suggest you epoxy the scales on, let the epoxy cure, and go ahead and shape them first. Then, just before you're finished shaping (with your scales very close to the finished size and shape), insert your lanyard tube and flare it. Last, do the final shaping and finishing.

If you're going to "flare" the lanyard tube with sandpaper, just insert the tube while you epoxy the scales and let everything cure. Sand the edges just before you finish shaping the handle, just like above. Time saving tip..If you go this route fill the tube with wax paper first so that no epoxy gets packed inside.

[Bolster]

The attention to detail here is stunning. None of my Mulework would hold up to close-up photos like that...

[Fireman]

Might be sacrilege, but to save weight and make more comfortable for large hands, a mod where you make a larger and more ergonomic thumb rest area by taking out the hole. Also, to make the handle butt rest in the palm shown as well. We will call this the “fireman’s mule mod” The thumb mod will allow for more control when whittling to apply more force closer to the cut. You could also mod the finger guard area to move it forward and take out the nub.

[Bolster]

Might be sacrilege, but to save weight and make more comfortable for large hands...

I have had similar heretical thoughts. Just don't have the huevos to do it. (And I don't have enough Mules to experiment with.) But if you have the stones to make that mod, I'd surely like to see it...You'll knock me off the perch of "LW Mule" and I'll have to pass along the trophy to you.

[Fireman]

It would need custom handles and sheath but I like the concept.

[ArnAnders89]

Looks great! I love the way the jimping turned out. Am I seeing correctly that you beveled the sides of the jimping?

As for Kydex..super easy for you. I seriously suggest you should do it yourself and you'll be happy that you will forever have the ability to make yourself a sheath any time, for any knife...in about an hour.

Get a sheet of Kydex or Holstex (I think it's only about $5.00 for 12x12) and get 1 piece of molding foam (11.5" x 11.5" is about $13.00). You can order grommets too but if you don't want to get a grommet setting tool (and don't already have one) you can just drill holes and use sex-bolt type fasteners that are about $1 a piece. In total you can make your own for as little as $22 plus shipping. But if you can spend the extra $10-$15 get a grommet setting tool and some grommets. All of this is available at USA Knifemaker.com and a bunch of other knife supply sources.

Cut the foam in half length-wise, so you have 2 pieces roughly 11.5" x 5.75". This is big enough for most sheaths you'll want to make. Then, sandwich the foam between 2 boards (1"x6"x12") in a bench vise and you're ready to mold a sheath.
Here's an example of the same type of quick and easy set-up...in this case I was making some blue-jean micarta but it's the same simple boards and vise idea.


Or...if you're feeling ambitious...one of the first tools I ever made myself as I started making Mule handles (prior to ever making my own knives) was a kydex press. I made it for free (other than the foam) because I had all of the materials laying around the garage. My point is, that if you decide you want to make a press you can do that as well..

Here's a couple of pictures in case you decide to make one.
It's only these 4 pieces plus 2 door hinges. (the wood in the picture is 3/4" plywood glued double thick so it's 1.5" thick)

A couple of large lag bolts hold the back down to the base and it provids a place to mount the hinges.

As you can see, it's not sexy...but it flat works.


Here's the first sheath I ever made with it..(back in 2015)



It was all kinds of crappy, but I didn't think so at the time..I was stoked to have made a sheath at all.

These are the last 2 sheaths I made on that press (about 10 days ago). One was Holstex for the scuba rig and the other was leather. I use the press to wet-mold leather to the knife prior to making the leather sheath so that is has a permanent custom fitted shape before I add oil to soften the leather.





To heat your kydex/holstex a toaster oven is a perfect solution, but if you don't have one, a regular oven works great too. Heat the oven to 400F and when you see the whitish edges (from cutting) flow to the same color as the rest of the material, it's ready to mold (about 90 sec - 2 minutes in the oven).

I'll give you the rest of the detailed instructions to help you through the little fitment issues and ways to do drain holes and other minutia if you decide you want to take on the project yourself. Just let me know.

Best regards,
CK

Hey Xplorer I’ve seen some people put the hinges on top of there kydex press and some on the back side splitting the top and bottom with hinges. What’s the better way to do it? I’ve been trying to wrap my brain around what difference it would make and I would think it would be best to mount them to both the top and bottom?

[ArnAnders89]

.. I’ve been trying to think of a way to flare them without an arbor press, any ideas there would be greatly appreciated! ...

Flaring them provides a mechanical advantage that is ideal. You'll need some sort of press or a flaring clamp at least to flare the tubes. However, if you are using water stable handle materials and good epoxy you can get away with skipping the flaring. The epoxy will hold materials like G10, CF and micarta very well.

To get the nice rounded look of a flared tube without actually flaring the tube you can cut thin strips of sandpaper and sand in a shoe-shine motion all the way around the inner circumference. Use progressively finer grits up to 2500 to get a polished look.

Could a guy get by without using epoxy if I were to use 2 or 3 flared tubes to hold the scales on? Do I have to have tighter tolerances between the tubes and actual knife if I go this route?

Thanks man sorry to keep bugging you lol

[Xplorer]

Hey Xplorer I’ve seen some people put the hinges on top of there kydex press and some on the back side splitting the top and bottom with hinges. What’s the better way to do it? I’ve been trying to wrap my brain around what difference it would make and I would think it would be best to mount them to both the top and bottom?

If I was to do this with hinges again I would ideally split the back side in half and mount the hinges on the back with the center of the hinges in line with the center line of the 2 pieces of foam. This would be better for equalizing pressure as best you can on a hinged press. No matter what though, if you have hinges on one side (whether on top, middle or bottom) you are going to create a wedge shape when you apply pressure.

The best way to create a totally even press would be to have guide rods in all four corners, clamps on all four sides, mount it on a pedestal and use no hinges at all. Better yet, is to use a vacuum blanket and just use vacuum instead of pressure.

All said, it's not as important as it might sound. Even though my press applies more pressure to the front than it does in the back because of the way the hinges are mounted, the foam is thick enough that the pressure applied everywhere is more than enough and the results are uniform. So don't worry too much about it, because whichever way you go you can make it work.

[Xplorer]

Could a guy get by without using epoxy if I were to use 2 or 3 flared tubes to hold the scales on? Do I have to have tighter tolerances between the tubes and actual knife if I go this route?

Thanks man sorry to keep bugging you lol

Flared tubes will definitely hold scales on securely. Epoxy isn't necessarily needed in that case.

If you're counting on just the tubes to hold the handle in place I would suggest keeping your tolerances as tight as you can for sure. Drill bits don't make perfectly round holes as it is, so if you plan to use drill bits for the finished hole size make sure they're sharp. You're best bet for getting tight tolerances for the tubes would be to drill them with a drill bit that is 0.05" under-size and finish making the hole with the correct size straight flute chucking reamer. This will result in a perfectly round hole and and flawlessly tight fit.

[Fireman]

This would be light

[Bolster]

Flared tubes ...

Xplorer: I've read in the making of traditional pocket knives, makers would often flare the wood hole slightly (larger hole to the outside of the scale) and then pound (or spin) the brass pins so the pin flared/deformed and filled the flared wood hole. The idea was that the scales were then wedged into place.

If you're flaring tubes, would it make sense to add a bit of flare to the scale's hole? Obviously small enough flare that the tubing would expand to fit. Or do we just rely on the flared tube wedging into the top of a straight-sided hole? If the latter, any concerns about fracturing the scale material? Since I like to work in wood, I'm wondering about the dangers of tube flaring and potentially splitting a scale.

[ArnAnders89]

Flared tubes ...

Xplorer: I've read in the making of traditional pocket knives, makers would often flare the wood hole slightly (larger hole to the outside of the scale) and then pound (or spin) the brass pins so the pin flared/deformed and filled the flared wood hole. The idea was that the scales were then wedged into place.

If you're flaring tubes, would it make sense to add a bit of flare to the scale's hole? Obviously small enough flare that the tubing would expand to fit. Or do we just rely on the flared tube wedging into the top of a straight-sided hole? If the latter, any concerns about fracturing the scale material? Since I like to work in wood, I'm wondering about the dangers of tube flaring and potentially splitting a scale.

I was just going to ask this same question, because on usaknifemaker.com they recommend using a 82 degree countersink with there flaring dies they sell, and I believe I’ve read the same thing in another forum where guys were recommending using screw heads to flare the tubes and a common screw head taper is 82 degrees as well I think.
But I’ve also watched Walter Sorrells not use a countersink on YouTube doing his flared tube rivets…

So yeah I’m curious here to?

[Xplorer]

Flared tubes ...

Xplorer: I've read in the making of traditional pocket knives, makers would often flare the wood hole slightly (larger hole to the outside of the scale) and then pound (or spin) the brass pins so the pin flared/deformed and filled the flared wood hole. The idea was that the scales were then wedged into place.

If you're flaring tubes, would it make sense to add a bit of flare to the scale's hole? Obviously small enough flare that the tubing would expand to fit. Or do we just rely on the flared tube wedging into the top of a straight-sided hole? If the latter, any concerns about fracturing the scale material? Since I like to work in wood, I'm wondering about the dangers of tube flaring and potentially splitting a scale.

I was just going to ask this same question, because on usaknifemaker.com they recommend using a 82 degree countersink with there flaring dies they sell, and I believe I’ve read the same thing in another forum where guys were recommending using screw heads to flare the tubes and a common screw head taper is 82 degrees as well I think.
But I’ve also watched Walter Sorrells not use a countersink on YouTube doing his flared tube rivets…

So yeah I’m curious here to?

Making a small relief in wood is a good idea, especially wood that is not stabilized. Just keep it small and it should go well. With many materials you can flare a tube without relieving the hole first, but wood is likely to crack or split (if not immediately, it could still split months later) so a small relief is helpful. Just be careful with the depth of your relief. You still need to be able to fill the gap.

[Bolster]

82 degrees in the wood is more dramatic than I was thinking, but maybe that would work perfectly with an 82 degree flaring die. My plan was to use a tapered reamer such as found here:

https://www.toolplanet.com/product/Wood ... king-Tools

...which should add a fairly modest taper to the hole, if done with a light touch. Yes, the idea of a crack several years down the road is troublesome, and makes me wonder if I shouldn't just avoid flaring in non-stabilized wood scales. I mean, the old masters did it successfully on nonstabilized pocket knives since the 1800s...but I'm no old master!

[Xplorer]

I 100% agree with using the tapered reamer. The gentle taper is much easier to flare into. I would also use a tapered reamer that is large enough to flare just the outer 1/8"(ish) on both sides of the whole. I don't want the taper to begin all the way down at the tang.
Also remember (especially with raw wood) that the flare on the tubes doesn't have to be much to hold itself in place. When you work with wood scales, keep your flare slight and you won't have any problems. If you want it to look more dramatically flared, sand out the inside of the tube after installation with thin strips of sandpaper to add to the visual aspect if you want to.

[Bolster]

I would also use a tapered reamer that is large enough to flare the just the outer 1/8"(ish) on both sides of the whole. I don't want the taper to begin all the way down at the tang.

That makes sense. Thanks!

[nerdlock]

That makes sense. Thanks!

Bolster, you got PM.