We already have the solution. Now what we need is to find the problem

[Evil D]

The difference between me and that other 99% is that I will be prepared in the event that I really do need a knife for something. Just a few years ago there was that incident where a cruise ship lost all power and was stranded out at sea and a passenger needed some kind of emergency surgery and there happened to be a surgeon on board and he used another passengers pocket knife to save the man's life. You just never know when you're going to need a cutting tool. I carry a multi-tool for the same reason.

and that pocket knife was probably not allowed on the ship because they always have ridiculous rules just like airlines.

i always carry a blade and lighter as part of my edc. i don't cut things all the time and i hardly ever need fire (not a smoker). i just feel like i owe it to our ancestors that had to figure out fire and tools for survival. imagine traveling to present day from early times and finding out people had the ability to carry a steel cutting tool and fire in their pockets, but didn't because they thought those things were dangerous and unnecessary. it's hard not to take it personally when people make rules against carrying such items.

I do the same thing. I've never smoked but I always carry a Bic peanut lighter in my bag, it's so small and light it seems dumb not to. My "man purse" has saved the day in so many ways it's almost funny.

[bearfacedkiller]

I live out in the country. We don’t have any street lights around here and when the sun goes down it gets dark. I have been carrying a flashlight everyday for years now and I actually use it more than my knife.

Interestingly, I don’t geek out on flashlights like I do on knives. I have been carrying the same flashlight for about 8 years and never put much thought into getting a new one. Sometimes I wish I thought the same way about my knives.

I also carry a lighter everyday. I also have a set of tweezers I keep on my keys. I rarely use them but it is a lifesaver when I do need it. Other than that I mostly just carry my wallet and cell phone.

[Menipo]

The difference between me and that other 99% is that I will be prepared in the event that I really do need a knife for something. Just a few years ago there was that incident where a cruise ship lost all power and was stranded out at sea and a passenger needed some kind of emergency surgery and there happened to be a surgeon on board and he used another passengers pocket knife to save the man's life. You just never know when you're going to need a cutting tool. I carry a multi-tool for the same reason.

I have also heard the story of the surgeon and it has always been difficult for me to understand how in a ship designed to accommodate literally thousands of people (passengers and crew) isolated from the rest of the world for weeks or months in the middle of the sea and, therefore, equipped with (usually more than one) infirmaries full of medical instruments, another passenger's pocket knife was the only or most convenient alternative. :confused: :confused: :confused:

As to the multitools I couldn't agree more with you, David. I have always a Leatherman close at hand: on my office desk, in all the cars I usually use (mine or those of people in my close family circle), etc.

[Pokey]

That was precisely my point. It gets dark here every now and then as well (or in Lisbon, London or Rome) and I never saw one using a EDC flashlight. And I also run out to get some groceries from time to time ... but I would never think of carrying a flashlight, nor do I know anyone who would. That's why I say it must be cultural. :confused:

Menipo,

I got to thinking what you said about carrying a flashlight being cultural. I thought when would I be likely to use a flashlight, and I thought what is the lighting like after dark where I do go? Or, the time that I'm out?

I have a house that's in a rural area surrounded by a National Forrest. We don't have any street lights, nor any sidewalks there. Usually, the only lighting is coming from porch lights on the neighbors' houses. We do have a two gas stations/corner stores in town that are lit up when they're open, they're about a mile (1.6 km) apart, but being in the mountains the light doesn't travel far.

I also work nights and am arriving home at 12:15-1:00 (0015-0100). I drive through areas that are more populated and well lit as well as areas where there are no street lights. I'm more likely to encounter a four legged critter than a two legged critter at those hours. With our weather being as unpredictable as it is, one could have a breakdown, run into a blocked road, etc, where a flashlight would be useful. (A situation like that could turn into an overnight camp out. )

I could see where a person is after dark would make a difference whether they carry a flashlight.

[Menipo]

I don't think I've ever been part of a hobby that is so concerned with self justification. Just enjoy knife collecting folks. It's fun!

I'm imagining being on a skateboard forum and having people ask me why I ride the size board I do, or being on a gaming forum and hearing folks talk about how no one needs a 1TB drive, that 500 gigs is enough for practical purposes.

:D

It has nothing to do with self-justification, Vivi, don't take it too seriously, my good friend.

It is just another blade related topic, another opportunity to talk about our favorite hobby. The same as suggesting the umpteenth variation in the configuration of the Chaparral, discussing the indisputable virtues of 4 mm. additional cutting edge, debating about choils and how they completely change the way one uses his knife, or arguing for months about whether Golden's FNR texture allows 15% more grip than Seki or viceversa. :rolleyes: :o :D

I think you misinterpreted my comment :p the whole gist of my post was to say don't take it too seriously, its just knife collecting. Enjoy the thing you enjoy and don't worry about justifying it to anyone unless it becomes a problem.

No, I got you right, Vivi (I think).

But I insist that I have not posed my question in terms of self-justification ("since it is clear that I don't need them, I have to justify myself why I buy them by the dozen") and that is why no one has to self-justify.

What I raised was more in terms of "Which came first, the chicken or the egg?": Does the need to cut something lead us to look for the cutting tool that we like the most, or does the compulsion to get that cutting tool that we like so much make us later need to find an occasion to use it?

[Menipo]

I live out in the country. We don’t have any street lights around here and when the sun goes down it gets dark. I have been carrying a flashlight everyday for years now and I actually use it more than my knife.

Interestingly, I don’t geek out on flashlights like I do on knives. I have been carrying the same flashlight for about 8 years and never put much thought into getting a new one. Sometimes I wish I thought the same way about my knives.

I also carry a lighter everyday. I also have a set of tweezers I keep on my keys. I rarely use them but it is a lifesaver when I do need it. Other than that I mostly just carry my wallet and cell phone.

Menipo,

I got to thinking what you said about carrying a flashlight being cultural. I thought when would I be likely to use a flashlight, and I thought what is the lighting like after dark where I do go? Or, the time that I'm out?

I have a house that's in a rural area surrounded by a National Forrest. We don't have any street lights, nor any sidewalks there. Usually, the only lighting is coming from porch lights on the neighbors' houses. We do have a two gas stations/corner stores in town that are lit up when they're open, they're about a mile (1.6 km) apart, but being in the mountains the light doesn't travel far.

I also work nights and am arriving home at 12:15-1:00 (0030-0100). I drive through areas that are more populated and well lit as well as areas where there are no street lights. I'm more likely to encounter a four legged critter than a two legged critter at those hours. With our weather being as unpredictable as it is, one could have a breakdown, run into a blocked road, etc, where a flashlight would be useful. (A situation like that could turn into an overnight camp out. )

I could see where a person is after dark would make a difference whether they carry a flashlight.

Thanks, Darby and Pokey. I think you both concurr and have given me the answer I was looking for: the difference in how towns and cities are structured (population very concentrated in Europe and quite dispersed in the USA) that generates existence in the first case (and in the second the nonexistence or less abundance) of lighting in the streets.

I carry a flashlight in the glove box of my car ... to use on the road at night if I get stranded in the middle of nowhere. When I go walking (so I don't use the car), I would never carry one in my pocket because all the streets I walk will be fully illuminated.

In the end it was a cultural issue, as I suspected.

Thank you both.

[Menipo]

Absolutely!

I don’t know about anyone else, but I will balk at spending 00’s on tools I regularly use, but not on knives I rarely use.

Here’s another question .... what cost more? The shoes you are wearing or the knife in your pocket?!

In my case, the shoes. :D I am on a dark suit Monday to Friday (or I was ... now a couple of days or even just one because of the pandemic and the teleworking) and have a good collections of Church's that I take the opportunity to increase every time I have to travel to London for business or pleasure.They are still cheaper than if I bought them here and I can save up to £ 50 per pair (and use them towards the purchase of the next knife)

This man has style!

:)

:D Thanks, Chris! More than style I would call it "to be able to recognize quality as soon as I see it" :cool:

[Menipo]

The difference between me and that other 99% is that I will be prepared in the event that I really do need a knife for something. Just a few years ago there was that incident where a cruise ship lost all power and was stranded out at sea and a passenger needed some kind of emergency surgery and there happened to be a surgeon on board and he used another passengers pocket knife to save the man's life. You just never know when you're going to need a cutting tool. I carry a multi-tool for the same reason.

and that pocket knife was probably not allowed on the ship because they always have ridiculous rules just like airlines.

i always carry a blade and lighter as part of my edc. i don't cut things all the time and i hardly ever need fire (not a smoker). i just feel like i owe it to our ancestors that had to figure out fire and tools for survival. imagine traveling to present day from early times and finding out people had the ability to carry a steel cutting tool and fire in their pockets, but didn't because they thought those things were dangerous and unnecessary. it's hard not to take it personally when people make rules against carrying such items.

I couldn't agree more. I never understood legislation governing the blade size, lock system or deployment method of folding knives when 90% of the crimes are commited with "legal by all means" knives (kitchen knives, utility knives and the alike).

[Menipo]

Absolutely!

I don’t know about anyone else, but I will balk at spending 00’s on tools I regularly use, but not on knives I rarely use.

Here’s another question .... what cost more? The shoes you are wearing or the knife in your pocket?!

Knives, Pens and flashlights
3 things I use most at work, I never balk at spending money on them. Also enjoy having several of them probably in the order above of most of to least of.

And for Chris I’m a flip flop guy 9/10 living tropical so everything is worth more than my shoes...

It has always intrigued me a lot. I see flashlights paired with knives in many of the photos on the forum "What Spyderco is in your pocket today ??" and I understand that in the USA they are part of the EDC.

But here I've never carried one in my pocket (except when I'm camping) and I don't know anyone who carries it. But not only here. I have lived in a dozen European countries (including France, Germany, Italy, UK, Denmark, etc.) and I have also not seen people carry flashlights as part of their EDC. It must be something cultural .... :confused:

I inspect machinery, big vessels, oil rigs etc at work so a EDC torch is essential. In Australia so not only a US thing.... Good small torches (what we call flashlights in Australia) are super powerful and compact nowadays and come in handy in daily use every now and then....

In your case it is a professional tool, no doubt. In addition, what I called "cultural reasons" for the US versus Europe (the way in which the population is concentrated or dispersed) fully apply to Australia (if we leave aside the downtown of Sydney, Brisbane, Melbourne or Perth)

[standy99]

Knives, Pens and flashlights
3 things I use most at work, I never balk at spending money on them. Also enjoy having several of them probably in the order above of most of to least of.

And for Chris I’m a flip flop guy 9/10 living tropical so everything is worth more than my shoes...

It has always intrigued me a lot. I see flashlights paired with knives in many of the photos on the forum "What Spyderco is in your pocket today ??" and I understand that in the USA they are part of the EDC.

But here I've never carried one in my pocket (except when I'm camping) and I don't know anyone who carries it. But not only here. I have lived in a dozen European countries (including France, Germany, Italy, UK, Denmark, etc.) and I have also not seen people carry flashlights as part of their EDC. It must be something cultural .... :confused:

I inspect machinery, big vessels, oil rigs etc at work so a EDC torch is essential. In Australia so not only a US thing.... Good small torches (what we call flashlights in Australia) are super powerful and compact nowadays and come in handy in daily use every now and then....

In your case it is a professional tool, no doubt. In addition, what I called "cultural reasons" for the US versus Europe (the way in which the population is concentrated or dispersed) fully apply to Australia (if we leave aside the downtown of Sydney, Brisbane, Melbourne or Perth)

Live in remote Northern Australia......and yes more a professional necessity.

But like a flashlight is something I get with the EDC people one thing I picked up from the EDC crowd was prybar,s and so I had to give one a try and I was surprised how much I use one nowadays and how I went without something so handy for years beforehand.

Have a Lynch prybar in titanium and love it....

[ladybug93]

But like a flashlight is something I get with the EDC people one thing I picked up from the EDC crowd was prybar,s and so I had to give one a try and I was surprised how much I use one nowadays and how I went without something so handy for years beforehand.

Have a Lynch prybar in titanium and love it....

i just bought a niteize doohickey the other day and i've already used it. i could've found something else that would've worked at the time, but this was available and easy to grab. it's definitely a worthy addition to my little wallet kit.

[Menipo]

It has always intrigued me a lot. I see flashlights paired with knives in many of the photos on the forum "What Spyderco is in your pocket today ??" and I understand that in the USA they are part of the EDC.

But here I've never carried one in my pocket (except when I'm camping) and I don't know anyone who carries it. But not only here. I have lived in a dozen European countries (including France, Germany, Italy, UK, Denmark, etc.) and I have also not seen people carry flashlights as part of their EDC. It must be something cultural .... :confused:

I inspect machinery, big vessels, oil rigs etc at work so a EDC torch is essential. In Australia so not only a US thing.... Good small torches (what we call flashlights in Australia) are super powerful and compact nowadays and come in handy in daily use every now and then....

In your case it is a professional tool, no doubt. In addition, what I called "cultural reasons" for the US versus Europe (the way in which the population is concentrated or dispersed) fully apply to Australia (if we leave aside the downtown of Sydney, Brisbane, Melbourne or Perth)

Live in remote Northern Australia......and yes more a professional necessity.

But like a flashlight is something I get with the EDC people one thing I picked up from the EDC crowd was prybar,s and so I had to give one a try and I was surprised how much I use one nowadays and how I went without something so handy for years beforehand.

Have a Lynch prybar in titanium and love it....

Even the concept of pocket prybar was unknown to me till I heard about Casey and started buying his clips. Most probably I will buy one next time that I ask him to send me clips (as soon as the black ceratoke longs become available again).

[ChrisinHove]

I’m a surveyor (of usually old buildings) so my flashlight gets used waaaaaay more than my knife.

Other than technical equipment, my county-com tool steel widgy pry-bar gets used next most, but I can’t make myself buy (to use and trash) an expensive Lynch one, regardless of how pretty they are.

[JuPaul]

None of my family members or friends carry a knife...Like 99% of humanity, I guess.

A lot of my family members and some of my friends carry knives. And the ones who don't always ask to borrow mine! But still, I only know a few other people (outside of my online groups) that have more than a few knives. And none of them has nearly as many as I do! I definitely collect knives because I love them, not because I need them.

You are blessed, Julia! I'd give an arm to have a bunch of family members who carried knives. Because that would give me the opportunity to buy many more knives (to give them gifts) so I wouldn't have to worry about getting my BBOCD (Buying Blades Obsesive Compulsive Disorder) controlled ... :D :D

Ha! Yes! In fact, both my brother and husband are with me today, and both are carrying knives I gave them. It's great. :)

[aicolainen]

Absolutely!

I don’t know about anyone else, but I will balk at spending 00’s on tools I regularly use, but not on knives I rarely use.

Here’s another question .... what cost more? The shoes you are wearing or the knife in your pocket?!

Knives, Pens and flashlights
3 things I use most at work, I never balk at spending money on them. Also enjoy having several of them probably in the order above of most of to least of.

And for Chris I’m a flip flop guy 9/10 living tropical so everything is worth more than my shoes...

It has always intrigued me a lot. I see flashlights paired with knives in many of the photos on the forum "What Spyderco is in your pocket today ??" and I understand that in the USA they are part of the EDC.

But here I've never carried one in my pocket (except when I'm camping) and I don't know anyone who carries it. But not only here. I have lived in a dozen European countries (including France, Germany, Italy, UK, Denmark, etc.) and I have also not seen people carry flashlights as part of their EDC. It must be something cultural .... :confused:

It's kind of cultural, but it also isn't. Depends on definitions and timeline, I suppose.

First of all, there is the fact that most people don't carry anything anymore. The convenient padding of modern society is stripping us from the skill of preparedness as well as the trait of taking responsibility.

Just think about how ubiquitous pocket knives were just a couple of generations ago, when everyday chores were a little less convenient than today. Under the same circumstances I think we would have seen similar behavior toward flashlights, but nothing really pocket friendly existed at the time.

As it turns out, lot's of people actually needed pocketable flashlights, and we know this, because we see people illuminating things with their mobile phones all the time. Just like with knives, people don't realize how useful it can be until they have it with them. Intentional or not.

With regards to flashlights I've gone through the evolutionary steps. I was fascinated with them when I was a kid. Living far north in Europe, we have our fair share of darkness, so I for kids and especially boys to develop that fascination is quite predictable. The size of flashlights back then facilitated they were used on a "need to have" basis, rather than just in case.
As I grew older I did carry some smaller flashlights off and on (read mini maglites), but they weren't all that good. I drooled over surefire lights after being introduced to them during military service, but they were expensive to buy and even more expensive to feed. The result of the cost/size/performance equation not adding up in my favor resulted in the fact that even with my inherent interest and identified needs, I didn't consistently carry a "flashlight" before they became embedded in our phones.

The reason I later switched to a dedicated flashlight is twofold;
It's partly work related. My work often requires me to verify, test or even make electrical connections in tight and poorly lit spaces. Beyond being an unsuitable task for a mobile phone just for the risk of breaking it, I often found that I simultaneously needed the phone for other tasks like looking up schematics, taking pictures for documentation or calling for assistance. Also, phones are prohibited items on some of the sites I visited.
The other part has a lot to do with technology. My experience with flashlights at work combined with the carry comfort / performance ratios of modern AAA/10400 flashlights, has convinced me that there is a positive cost/benefit equation in carrying dedicated flashlights all of the time. It's more convenient to engage than phone lights, it's brighter, has better CRI, it saves battery on my phone and when conditions are harsh, it allows me to use an affordable and rugged device rather than an expensive and delicate one.

[Menipo]

I’m a surveyor (of usually old buildings) so my flashlight gets used waaaaaay more than my knife.

Other than technical equipment, my county-com tool steel widgy pry-bar gets used next most, but I can’t make myself buy (to use and trash) an expensive Lynch one, regardless of how pretty they are.

C'mon, man! It's a matter of style. And style isn't cheap :D

[Menipo]

None of my family members or friends carry a knife...Like 99% of humanity, I guess.

A lot of my family members and some of my friends carry knives. And the ones who don't always ask to borrow mine! But still, I only know a few other people (outside of my online groups) that have more than a few knives. And none of them has nearly as many as I do! I definitely collect knives because I love them, not because I need them.

You are blessed, Julia! I'd give an arm to have a bunch of family members who carried knives. Because that would give me the opportunity to buy many more knives (to give them gifts) so I wouldn't have to worry about getting my BBOCD (Buying Blades Obsesive Compulsive Disorder) controlled ... :D :D

Ha! Yes! In fact, both my brother and husband are with me today, and both are carrying knives I gave them. It's great. :)

Since I can't give knifes to my relatives .... I was considering giving them to yours ....

My kingdom for an excuse to buy another blade!!!!

[JuPaul]

A lot of my family members and some of my friends carry knives. And the ones who don't always ask to borrow mine! But still, I only know a few other people (outside of my online groups) that have more than a few knives. And none of them has nearly as many as I do! I definitely collect knives because I love them, not because I need them.

You are blessed, Julia! I'd give an arm to have a bunch of family members who carried knives. Because that would give me the opportunity to buy many more knives (to give them gifts) so I wouldn't have to worry about getting my BBOCD (Buying Blades Obsesive Compulsive Disorder) controlled ... :D :D

Ha! Yes! In fact, both my brother and husband are with me today, and both are carrying knives I gave them. It's great. :)

Since I can't give knifes to my relatives .... I was considering giving them to yours ....

My kingdom for an excuse to buy another blade!!!!

[Menipo]

Absolutely!

I don’t know about anyone else, but I will balk at spending 00’s on tools I regularly use, but not on knives I rarely use.

Here’s another question .... what cost more? The shoes you are wearing or the knife in your pocket?!

Knives, Pens and flashlights
3 things I use most at work, I never balk at spending money on them. Also enjoy having several of them probably in the order above of most of to least of.

And for Chris I’m a flip flop guy 9/10 living tropical so everything is worth more than my shoes...

It has always intrigued me a lot. I see flashlights paired with knives in many of the photos on the forum "What Spyderco is in your pocket today ??" and I understand that in the USA they are part of the EDC.

But here I've never carried one in my pocket (except when I'm camping) and I don't know anyone who carries it. But not only here. I have lived in a dozen European countries (including France, Germany, Italy, UK, Denmark, etc.) and I have also not seen people carry flashlights as part of their EDC. It must be something cultural .... :confused:

It's kind of cultural, but it also isn't. Depends on definitions and timeline, I suppose.

First of all, there is the fact that most people don't carry anything anymore. The convenient padding of modern society is stripping us from the skill of preparedness as well as the trait of taking responsibility.

Just think about how ubiquitous pocket knives were just a couple of generations ago, when everyday chores were a little less convenient than today. Under the same circumstances I think we would have seen similar behavior toward flashlights, but nothing really pocket friendly existed at the time.

As it turns out, lot's of people actually needed pocketable flashlights, and we know this, because we see people illuminating things with their mobile phones all the time. Just like with knives, people don't realize how useful it can be until they have it with them. Intentional or not.

With regards to flashlights I've gone through the evolutionary steps. I was fascinated with them when I was a kid. Living far north in Europe, we have our fair share of darkness, so I for kids and especially boys to develop that fascination is quite predictable. The size of flashlights back then facilitated they were used on a "need to have" basis, rather than just in case.
As I grew older I did carry some smaller flashlights off and on (read mini maglites), but they weren't all that good. I drooled over surefire lights after being introduced to them during military service, but they were expensive to buy and even more expensive to feed. The result of the cost/size/performance equation not adding up in my favor resulted in the fact that even with my inherent interest and identified needs, I didn't consistently carry a "flashlight" before they became embedded in our phones.

The reason I later switched to a dedicated flashlight is twofold;
It's partly work related. My work often requires me to verify, test or even make electrical connections in tight and poorly lit spaces. Beyond being an unsuitable task for a mobile phone just for the risk of breaking it, I often found that I simultaneously needed the phone for other tasks like looking up schematics, taking pictures for documentation or calling for assistance. Also, phones are prohibited items on some of the sites I visited.
The other part has a lot to do with technology. My experience with flashlights at work combined with the carry comfort / performance ratios of modern AAA/10400 flashlights, has convinced me that there is a positive cost/benefit equation in carrying dedicated flashlights all of the time. It's more convenient to engage than phone lights, it's brighter, has better CRI, it saves battery on my phone and when conditions are harsh, it allows me to use an affordable and rugged device rather than an expensive and delicate one.

Thanks, aicolainen!

In your case, it could be said that your flashlight is a tool that you need to work. As in the case of ChrisinHove and standy99.

I forgot the flashlight that is built into the mobile. Although in my case and the ones around me I don't use it much either. In the last 6 weeks I may have used it 2 times.

Apart from the cases in which it is necessary for professional reasons, reading all the answers I still think that the fact that many Americans and Aussies (and few Europeans) include flashlights in their EDC has mostly to do with the artificial lighting available outside (which is the logical result of each type of urban structuring). What I called the "cultural factor"

[bearfacedkiller]

I started carrying a flashlight every day specifically because I was tired of draining the battery on my phone all the time. The flashlights on phones eat the battery up pretty quick.