Which one will dominate?

[archangel]

Okay, we have SPY27, we have S45VN, and soon (gosh I hope soon!) we'll have Larrinite. I'm pretty sure all of them will see ALOT of representation in future Spydies.

What do you think, which steel will we see the most, and longest? And why? Everybody is excited about Larrinite, but don't forget how well represented S30V/S35VN are in the market, so I think S45VN has a good shot. And SPY27 has a home field advantage - why develop your own home steel and then not use it widely? The Dark Horse - Larrinite?

Who wins?

[ugaarguy]

The mix of properties of CPM MagnaCut appeal most to me. But I think SPY27's homefield advantage is going to be hard to overcome.

[JMM]

The reference of Larrinite/MagnaCut being akin to stainless 4V would make me vote for wanting/buying it over Spy27 or S45VN personally as i love 4V -- although in terms of dominance the models and pricing between the 3 steels may not overlap super frequently so it will be interesting to watch. Personally I can't wait for a MagnaCarta Shaman... ohhhh man please just take my money!!!

It's an amazing time to be a Spydie nut & steel junky for sure!

[archangel]

The reference of Larrinite/MagnaCut being akin to stainless 4V would make me vote for wanting/buying it over Spy27 or S45VN personally as i love 4V -- although in terms of dominance the models and pricing between the 3 steels may not overlap super frequently so it will be interesting to watch. Personally I can't wait for a MagnaCarta Shaman... ohhhh man please just take my money!!!

It's an amazing time to be a Spydie nut & steel junky for sure!

Larrin said that costs of Larrinite would be similar to S30V/S35VN. So shouldn't it be in the same ballpark as S45VN? I'm not sure that these steels will not overlap in similar knives.

[steelcity16]

I mean assuming it costs the same or less than S45VN or SPY27, I'd like to hear what if any advantage either of these two steels would have over CPM-MagnaCut? It sounds like it would outclass nearly all stainless steels in all categories aside from a rare few? Maybe you would choose S110V if you needed more edge holding in stainless? Or AEB-L if you needed a tougher stainless? Or H1 (or maybe LC200N or Vanax, though it sounds like it could be on par with these two?) if you need a more rustproof stainless? Or BD1/BD1N if you need a cheaper stainless? But in what scenario would I ever choose S45VN, SPY27, S30V, S35VN, CTS-XHP, M390/CTS-204P/CPM-20CV? Does MagnaCut have as much wear resistance as S90V?

From the sound of it, I could have knives in only H1, LC200N, AEB-L, and CPM-MagnaCut and cover all of my stainless needs. I personally wouldn't have a desire to choose any other stainless over any of these 4. I am not sure if CPM-MagnaCut would knock out my desire for knives in CPM-Cruwear, CPM-3V, Delta 3V, CPM-4V, K390, A2, O1, etc for certain types of knives though.

I guess I need to read the full article... :D

[Matus]

When it comes to CPM Spy27 and CPM S45VN - I am not really seeing an obvious difference that would make me pick one over the other, but it is too soon to tell. The CPM Magnacut is going to have considerably higher toughness with probably comparable edge retention

[ladybug93]

i kind of expected we'd see spy27 replace s30v as the standard steel for golden models.

[JRinFL]

I ONLY want Larrinite/MagnaCut from here on out. However, I suspect we will be forced into overpaying for it via short run sprints and exclusives. Plus, with the literal tons and tons of S30V knife makers have stock piled, we will be forced to wade through that for years to come.

[JMM]

The reference of Larrinite/MagnaCut being akin to stainless 4V would make me vote for wanting/buying it over Spy27 or S45VN personally as i love 4V -- although in terms of dominance the models and pricing between the 3 steels may not overlap super frequently so it will be interesting to watch. Personally I can't wait for a MagnaCarta Shaman... ohhhh man please just take my money!!!

It's an amazing time to be a Spydie nut & steel junky for sure!

Larrin said that costs of Larrinite would be similar to S30V/S35VN. So shouldn't it be in the same ballpark as S45VN? I'm not sure that these steels will not overlap in similar knives.

Yeah, I wasn't necessarily speaking to the cost of the steel so much, but to the models it might more frequently made in, for example, a stainless 4v might get put into a more expensive model that Spy27 doesn't at all, and only a small bit of S45VN models overlap into those more expensive stainless 4v / MagnaCut models. Whatever the case, as I said, "it will be interesting to watch" -- at least IMO it will be.

:D :)

Cheers,

John

[Zive]

I ONLY want Larrinite/MagnaCut from here on out. However, I suspect we will be forced into overpaying for it via short run sprints and exclusives. Plus, with the literal tons and tons of S30V knife makers have stock piled, we will be forced to wade through that for years to come.

I can’t wait to try MagnaCut either, but respectfully that seems like a bold statement if you haven’t used it yet.

I admit that you’re most likely right as far as Spyderco goes. MagnaCut will probably be in a mule and then a handful of sprints/exclusives for a few years to come.

[JRinFL]

I ONLY want Larrinite/MagnaCut from here on out. However, I suspect we will be forced into overpaying for it via short run sprints and exclusives. Plus, with the literal tons and tons of S30V knife makers have stock piled, we will be forced to wade through that for years to come.

I can’t wait to try MagnaCut either, but respectfully that seems like a bold statement if you haven’t used it yet.

I admit that you’re most likely right as far as Spyderco goes. MagnaCut will probably be in a mule and then a handful of sprints/exclusives for a few years to come.

I trust the knife makers who have tried it and Larrin who designed it. Could I be wrong? Well it is possible, but not probable.

[archangel]

Charts and theories are one thing. Tests are another. If both worlds say this is good stuff - what can go wrong?

[archangel]

I'm really curious to learn how SPY27 will compete against S45VN and Larrinite, both from a total sales point of view (if we'll ever learn about this), and from the number of knives in- and outside Spyderco.

Was it ever discussed if SPY27 has a chance outside Spyderco? Has there ever been a case in the knifeworld where a knife manufacturer-own steel was sold to other knife manufacturers? I doubt that, but I'm far from being an expert in the steel/knife world...

[wrdwrght]

We’re cheering vaporware until Larrin’s whatyoumaycallit actually materializes, are we not?

[Vaugith]

Spy27 is a modification of VG10. I think its possible to see it on the range of golden models as sprints or even production if it proves popular enough, but I think it makes more sense to upgrade their VG10 & BD1N with this stuff. It doesn't cut as long as sxxv class steels but it sharpens and touches up much easier.

As for magnacut - it depends on how much of it is produced and how much spyderco can get their hands on. We know there's a mule coming, and I think things down the road depend on how that goes and on crucibles production. People have been clamoring for Vanax for some time, but if manufacturers can't get it...

[dan31]

I will be saving my pennies for the CPM MagnaCut models.

[JRinFL]

We’re cheering vaporware until Larrin’s whatyoumaycallit actually materializes, are we not?

No. There are several makers who have already made and tested knives using the new steel. It was all reported by Larrin a day or so ago. The steel exists and early tests are very positive. Not yet widely distributed does not equal vaporware.

[Deadboxhero]

It is essentially like comparing.


Elmax (S45vn)

SG2(spy27)

4v *Stainless(MagnaCut)

Except these steels have superior properties over what they are "similar" to above.

S45vn has finer carbides than Elmax with similar wear resistance at less carbide volume this slightly enhances the toughness and stability over Elmax but S45vn will not be as durable at the edge as MagnaCut or SPY27 but it is also more wear resistant. So more resistance to blunting but less resistance to chipping when comparing these three new steels.

S45vn seems to be less of a ground breaking upgrade and more like an "update" taking atributes and things from steels like S30v, S35Vn and Elmax and improving the balance of things folks loved from those steels.

I think it's worth giving it a try if it's an option, I'll make a few knives from it here and there. I enjoyed the edge at 64-65rc. Can definitely feel the "heat" on the edge when feeling a crispy apex with the finger tips, so I enjoyed the edge character of the steel and taking what it offers on paper and boosting it's strengths with HT and geometry.


The SPY27 is a step towards higher sharpenability over other contemporary PM steels from Crucible which I feel is a very tasteful direction that gets no love, a knife is only as sharp as the edge that is put on it so it's an important feature for the masses and something interesting to explore that I feel will pay off when more folks get a chance to try it out. Spy27 is a great flavor to try that I feel most folks will prefer over S30v. It will not be the toughest nor the most wear resistant and is also not the finest structured here but has many advantages over a steels like VG10 and Japanese PM stainless steels like Sg2 and Srs15 which are beloved steels known and argued for their superior edge taking abilities despite also having larger chromium carbides. Spy27 has a reduced carbide volume and finer carbides then VG-10 and SG2 but is able to match these steels in wear resistance thanks to trading out some of the chromium carbides for a small volume of harder niobium and vanadium rich carbides.
Out of S45vn, MagnaCut and Spy27, Spy27 has larger carbides at lower volume. perhaps the larger carbides add interesting character to the edge giving it a little more "grab" for its volume but that's just sharpening hearsay. Cobalt is an expensive element to add to steel the the price should be respected.

As a lover of steels like Takefu Cobalt Special, I find Spy27 quite charming and enjoy it at 65rc.



MagnaCut is the freek of the three, it was not thought to be possible to have a stainless 4v with finer carbides than even 4v but Dr Larrin was able to do exactly that by hacking the steel code and balancing the chemistry out perfectly to achieve this which is an impressive display of metallurgical prowless and passion.

So far the MagnaCut is pretty overpowered. What makes it so remarkable is it represents taking the best atributes of midrange carbon PM tool steels and mid range PM stainless and putting them together with seemingly no disadvantages I've yet to experience.

MagnaCut will not out cut 10v, Maxamet, or s90v, s125v etc. I'm embarrassed to say this as It should be obvious that those are not the steels to compare it too but everyone is starting from different places with geeking out on this stuff so I have to say it before someone asks.

I couldn't believe it had slightly finer carbides than 4v but it's thanks to the niobium and nitrogen that's neatly balanced with the other elements to produce the desired effect that is keeping the carbides slightly finer than 4v which is very impressive.

Everything one sees in the chemistry is perfectly balanced, all the chromium carbides are dissolved leaving only fine vanadium and niobium rich carbides. All the chromium needed to make the steel stainless is in solution nothing more, nothing less. It is also the only steel I know that seems to combat retained austenite. Very elegant design

The edge comes up very crisp with a sneaky little bite of subtle aggression at the end. Deburrs noticable well, I enjoyed it both at 62.4rc all the way up to 65.5 rc. I even made some in the 64rc range which is also a nice sweet spot.

At higher hardness the edge deburred better and got crisper. The higher hardeness edge has more strength but less shock resistance yet that edge is also less prone to rolling/blunting in use with very thin geometry. At 62-63rc (with proper microstructure from good heat treatment) I was very impressed with the edge durability. Personally, I haven't seen this kind of durability in a PM stainless grade.

I handsanded MagnaCut at 65.5rc and Zwear (ZAPP Cruwear) at 65rc but noticed the MagnaCut finished better with more ease despite being harder with more hard carbide, I'm guessing it's thanks to the finer carbides. In rope cut testing the MagnaCut also had a slightly lower BESS score with
The same amount of fixed cuts on 3/4 Manilla Rope meaning it stayed sharper with the same amount of cuts (although the MagnaCut was 0.5rc harder)
Zwear (Cruwear) has more carbide volume but it has chromium carbides mixed in with Vanadium rich carbides. Chromium carbides are not as effective at increasing wear resistance as Vanadium and Niobium due to the lower hardness of chromium carbide.


Which will dominant?

MagnaCut is certainly in the strongest position to sweep across the knife industry given that it's a break through a lot of folks have been wanting for a long time for a balanced high performance steel.

I think for edge freeks they'll have to try em all.

I'd say a good knife is a good knife.

Steel is always something that can make a good knife better by spicing it up more.

And variety is always welcome.

We'll see what the opinion of the masses will be overtime.

[Abyss_Fish]

Spy27 will probably be the most prevalent, sweeping the main line. But MagnaCut will probably be a mainstay in sprints and special taichungs going forward like s90v is now.

[JRinFL]

...
MagnaCut is certainly in the strongest position to sweep across the knife industry given that it's a break through a lot of folks have been wanting for a long time for a balanced high performance steel.
...

DBH, thank you for the "in the trenches" report on the new steel. I always look forward to reading your messages.