Police research

[yablanowitz]

I'm trying to gather information to update/correct the spydiewiki article on the C07 Police. I have a ton of questions, which I will number. Anyone who can answer even one will add to my meager knowledge.

The C07 Police was introduced in 1984. According to the wiki, the first model was hollow ground, but the only example I have is flat saber grind, so...

Question #1 Does anyone have a hollow ground first generation Police? It can be a PIG or standard, I just want to know if they were made both ways, if the wiki is completely wrong, or mine is fake.

The wiki says the first gen was made until 1991, but the aluminum model was introduced in 1989, and it has the second generation design.

Question #2 Was the second gen design first introduced on the aluminum model with the steel model continuing to be the first gen design, or was the second gen design introduced on a steel model produced at the same time (like the 2 and 3 today)? Alternately, did the first gen actually end in 89?

I know the aluminum model spanned the unmarked/G-2 period at least, as I now have one of each.

Question #3 Does anyone have an uncoated aluminum with GIN-1 steel mark? I'm fishing for an end year for the model.

I know the Tufram aluminum model spanned the G-2/GIN-1 era at least.

Question #4 Does anyone have a Tufram Police with ATS-55? Again, fishing for production end year.

Any and all help will be greatly appreciated. Heck, I'll even give you credit on the wiki if I can figure out how. :D

[Lord vader]

The Answer to Question #3 The coated aluminum handle started in 1993 so think the uncoated version ended 1993 based on the time the coated aluminum began.The uncoated aluminum version started in 1989.I hope i got that right.

[pmel018]

Hi
question #1: I have 2 1st gen Police one is a LH P.I.G. and has a hollow ground blade. the second has the 1st gen body with a hollow ground blade marked POLICE MODEL.
You should be able to check if your flat ground blade is correct by comparison with a real 1st gen, they are not the same as the 2nd gen blades
Phil

[yablanowitz]

The Answer to Question #3 The coated aluminum handle started in 1993 so think the uncoated version ended 1993 based on the time the coated aluminum began.The uncoated aluminum version started in 1989.I hope i got that right.

That assumes there was no overlap between the models. With Spyderco, that is not a safe assumption. That's why I'm checking.

Hi
question #1: I have 2 1st gen Police one is a LH P.I.G. and has a hollow ground blade. the second has the 1st gen body with a hollow ground blade marked POLICE MODEL.
You should be able to check if your flat ground blade is correct by comparison with a real 1st gen, they are not the same as the 2nd gen blades
Phil

Thank you. I'm actually pretty certain mine is legit, but it is the only one I've ever seen in person, so I have nothing to compare it to. That's the curse of living in the middle of nowhere. Mine could be the only slab-side Police within a hundred miles.

There is a close up picture of a PIG Police on Bladeforums that looks to be flat-saber grind, but it is hard to be certain from just a photo.

[Lord vader]

yablonowitz i agree,I try not to assume anything where spydies are concerned.There definitely is an overlap when some models are made and when the next generation begins.Answering these kinds of questions with any accuracy is almost impossible.

[genius5th]

if you want a good PIG police picture here it is, also there are suttle diffrences between the second generation police blades and the pig police but basically they both are hollow ground. the only flat ground im aware of is the G10 police. maybe saber ground and hollow ground are the same meaning? i know that PIG's only had slab sided square unchamfered handles and the "police model" and future police models changed over to a curved chamfered handle. but as far as blade differences i believe the sabers and hollows are the same and flat grind is only on the g10
here's a good PIG pic which was given to me by Caly E
http://www.spyderco.com/forums/showthre ... 644&page=4

[The Deacon]

Trying to discern the difference between hollow and flat saber grinds from a photograph is an exercise in guesswork at best. There are models where the only way I can tell for sure with the knife in hand is to hold a straightedge along the grind. If there's a crescent shaped light leak, it's hollow ground, if not, its flat. On a purely practical level, I'm inclined to think there's considerably less danger of early Spyderco knives being copied/cloned than of the more recent ones, since the old stuff tends to appeal primarily to more knowledgeable buyers.

Have nothing else to contribute here, my knowledge of the Police is way too limited to be of any value.

[pmel018]

genius5th
just to clarify, I have a slab sided(1st gen) Police with a blade marked POLICE MODEL, this marking is identical to that on the 2nd gen blades but the blade is the same shape and grind as my P.I.G

[genius5th]

spyderco probably switched to the slab sided to the chamfered curved handle during the "police model" phase since there is overlap with the many variations

[yablanowitz]

That is the same PIG that I saw on Bladeforums. The way the bevel reflects light makes it appear to be a flat saber grind like the FRN Endura. I would appreciate it if you could lay a straightedge on the bevel and see if it is flat or hollow.

Part of our problem here is most people don't seem to understand that "saber" and "full" refer to the grind height. A knife can be saber grind with either flat or hollow bevels, or it can be full height grind in either flat or hollow. It appears the Police has used three out of the four: hollow saber grind (usually just called hollow grind), flat saber grind (usually just called saber grind) and full flat grind (usually just called flat grind). The lack of clarity in the labelling of the grinds leads to confusion.

I kind of ran out of hands trying to shoot this, but here you can see by the way the light is focused into a strip on the left blade that it is hollow ground. The blade on the right is my old slab side, and it doesn't focus the light that way, because the bevel is flat. Or it was hollow ground on a fifty foot wheel.

[yablanowitz]

My primary value as a researcher is being pig-headed enough to continue rooting around for an answer long after everyone is tired of the question.

Moving this back to the front page.

[yablanowitz]

Back up with a new question. Does anyone here have a flat-grind G-10 serrated Police with the curved clip? (Not the new P3, but the older ATS-55 model) So far I have found PE with curved and straight clips, but the SE versions I have seen all have the straight clip.

[Higher]

Back up with a new question. Does anyone here have a flat-grind G-10 serrated Police with the curved clip? (Not the new P3, but the older ATS-55 model) So far I have found PE with curved and straight clips, but the SE versions I have seen all have the straight clip.

It's good that we have the Internet.
It's been 4268 days. I'm curious to know if the answer was found or not?

Maybe this will be the answer?

[yablanowitz]

At least I know one was made. It has been so long that I had forgotten I asked.

[elena86]

Sorry for the derail but I need to say it ; I would kill for an aluminium(Tufram they call it I guess) SE Police. Just found one on flybay but the guy doesn't have the box and I can't be sure. I was devastated when I heard they are discoing the SS SE Police. I need to stash a few ASAP. I only own three so far and one is on the way. The most iconic Spyderco of all times. SS SE Police IS the quintessence of Spyderco for me.

P.S Four years ago a few bastards broke into my house and stole half of my Spyderco collection... that's when I lost six of my beloved SS SE Police :mad:

[yablanowitz]

The Police came in uncoated aluminum as well as Tufram coated aluminum. My second Police Model purchase was a fleabay win of two "stainless serrated" Spyderco knives. One proved to be a slab-side first generation, the other an uncoated aluminum that I thought might be a fake until I did some research and found out Spyderco had made one.

Sorry to hear of your misfortune, but don't give up on that SS/SE Police just yet. It may survive with some changes.

[sal]

Hey Jack, and Higher for starting it and bringing it back up.

The history of the model variations is quite prolific. I started a Police display for the store back in 2019, then my assistant moved out of state. Have a new assistant, but Covid has kept both of us out of the office. ( Well, she also had a baby ).

When we get back to some normalcy, We'll get that going. It will be difficult to snag them all, and the aftermarket mods like the "Earthling".

The Police was always one of my preferred carry's. I like the size. Laws have changed, but I still carry a P4 quite a bit.

What's the possibility f starting a list to crab all f the models?

1984 - First Police model. All Stainless scales. It was designed at the request of a LEO that loved the cutting power of the "Mariner", but wanted one with a point. So the design was the result of that request. I thought to call it "LaSal", but thought that was way too much ego, So we called it the Police Model, because of the request, and engraved Pride Integrity Guts on the blade with the PG larger and darker.

It is our oldest running model.

sal

[elena86]

The Police came in uncoated aluminum as well as Tufram coated aluminum. My second Police Model purchase was a fleabay win of two "stainless serrated" Spyderco knives. One proved to be a slab-side first generation, the other an uncoated aluminum that I thought might be a fake until I did some research and found out Spyderco had made one.

Sorry to hear of your misfortune, but don't give up on that SS/SE Police just yet. It may survive with some changes.

What is Tufram anyway ? From what I know it’s some sort of electrochemical anodization but I don’t understand how it works.

[rycen]

It certainly looks like type 3 hard anodizing.

[yablanowitz]

From what I understand, it is a titanium electroplate.