Oh no...

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archangel
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Oh no...

Postby archangel » Wed Feb 10, 2021 11:59 am

How could I have been so ignorant?

Apparently I have successfully blended out for years that there is a length limit to blades of automatic knives in Germany, in order for them to be legal. :( It's 8,5cm. And the Autonomy 1/2 have blades of 9,4/8,9cm. They are illegal in Germany!! :mad:

Dang it.....
Michael
40 Spydies, 39 different models, 37 different steels

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VooDooChild
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Re: Oh no...

Postby VooDooChild » Wed Feb 10, 2021 12:09 pm

So break the law.
sal wrote:
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... "The edge is a ghost"...

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Wartstein
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Re: Oh no...

Postby Wartstein » Wed Feb 10, 2021 12:20 pm

Move just a bit to the south - come and live in Austria! :)
Top three going by pocket-time: Endura 4 in VG 10/Micarta-scales; Stretch 1 in VG 10; Endura 4 in HAP 40

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JRinFL
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Re: Oh no...

Postby JRinFL » Wed Feb 10, 2021 12:55 pm

Blades can be shortened by carefully stoning or grinding the top edge down. Many have done it here, though I have not needed to do so yet. Uncoated blades will look better, of course. Will it be confiscated when shipped, or is it legal to own, but not legal to carry based on blade length laws?
Used to be JR in CT with a much earlier join date. :rolleyes: :spyder: Native in 440v was my gateway Spyderco! :spyder: Wharnie for the whin! Friends call me Jim. As do my foes.

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archangel
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Re: Oh no...

Postby archangel » Wed Feb 10, 2021 1:09 pm

No, they are plain illegal. German dealers can't sell them, and if you privately order one from the US or any other country where they are legal, they would be sacked when customs spot them. So shortening the blade is not an option cause you can't even get it into Germany. The only way would be to smuggle it in. Too risky...
Michael
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Senfkarte
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Re: Oh no...

Postby Senfkarte » Wed Feb 10, 2021 1:50 pm

archangel wrote:
Wed Feb 10, 2021 11:59 am
How could I have been so ignorant?

Apparently I have successfully blended out for years that there is a length limit to blades of automatic knives in Germany, in order for them to be legal. :( It's 8,5cm. And the Autonomy 1/2 have blades of 9,4/8,9cm. They are illegal in Germany!! :mad:

Dang it.....
I think its even more restrictive. Automatic knives are illegal independent of the blade length. The 8.5 cm apply only to assisted knives, if I'm not mistaken.
On the hunt for my Spyder grail: Manix 2 in CPM 20CV

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archangel
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Re: Oh no...

Postby archangel » Wed Feb 10, 2021 1:54 pm

No, automatic knives are not illegal per se. Böker and many other dealers do sell automatic knives in Germany. Just models with blades shorter than 8,5cm.

OTFs and butterflies/balisongs are per se illegal, independant of the blade length. Not sure about balisong trainers, but probably the are ok since they have no real blade.

https://www.outdoormesser.de/Messerrech ... %20besitzt.
Michael
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Senfkarte
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Re: Oh no...

Postby Senfkarte » Wed Feb 10, 2021 4:30 pm

archangel wrote:
Wed Feb 10, 2021 1:54 pm
No, automatic knives are not illegal per se. Böker and many other dealers do sell automatic knives in Germany. Just models with blades shorter than 8,5cm.

OTFs and butterflies/balisongs are per se illegal, independant of the blade length. Not sure about balisong trainers, but probably the are ok since they have no real blade.

https://www.outdoormesser.de/Messerrech ... %20besitzt.
Yes, you are right. I always misunderstood the law around automatic knives. Good to know.
On the hunt for my Spyder grail: Manix 2 in CPM 20CV

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Abyss_Fish
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Re: Oh no...

Postby Abyss_Fish » Tue Feb 16, 2021 1:21 pm

I've had a realization like this a few months ago. I had just sold a microtech exocet after deciding it wasn't for me, and found out that in my state that it's illegal to own autos. I had been under the impression that they were only illegal to carry lol.
Patiently waiting for the smallfly 2.

Current spydie collection: Watu, Rhino, Native G10 salt, Native FRN s90v, Waterway, Ladybug k390, Caribbean
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Wartstein
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Re: Oh no...

Postby Wartstein » Sun Feb 21, 2021 7:27 pm

Abyss_Fish wrote:
Tue Feb 16, 2021 1:21 pm
I've had a realization like this a few months ago. I had just sold a microtech exocet after deciding it wasn't for me, and found out that in my state that it's illegal to own autos. I had been under the impression that they were only illegal to carry lol.

Now, just that I get this right: In your state you are literally not allowed to OWN an Auto, even if you only keep it at home in a drawer - ?!? :eek: :confused:
Top three going by pocket-time: Endura 4 in VG 10/Micarta-scales; Stretch 1 in VG 10; Endura 4 in HAP 40

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Abyss_Fish
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Re: Oh no...

Postby Abyss_Fish » Sun Feb 21, 2021 10:03 pm

Wartstein wrote:
Sun Feb 21, 2021 7:27 pm
Abyss_Fish wrote:
Tue Feb 16, 2021 1:21 pm
I've had a realization like this a few months ago. I had just sold a microtech exocet after deciding it wasn't for me, and found out that in my state that it's illegal to own autos. I had been under the impression that they were only illegal to carry lol.

Now, just that I get this right: In your state you are literally not allowed to OWN an Auto, even if you only keep it at home in a drawer - ?!? :eek: :confused:
Yep in Minnesota the legislation essentially says “it is legal to own and carry any knife as long as it is not a ‘switchblade’.”

Although the courts decide on the definition of switchblade case to case, so its safest to not own anything even vaguely assisted. Fun place I know, at least Balisongs and other weird knives are fully unrestricted.
Patiently waiting for the smallfly 2.

Current spydie collection: Watu, Rhino, Native G10 salt, Native FRN s90v, Waterway, Ladybug k390, Caribbean
Current favorite steels: sg2/R2, lc200n/Z-FiNit, s90v, 3v Runner ups: 20cv/m390/304p, cts-xhp

Salty Dog
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Re: Oh no...

Postby Salty Dog » Fri Feb 26, 2021 9:04 pm

Grind the blade down if you are worried.

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Re: Oh no...

Postby Menipo » Sun Feb 28, 2021 3:56 am

archangel wrote:
Wed Feb 10, 2021 1:54 pm
No, automatic knives are not illegal per se. Böker and many other dealers do sell automatic knives in Germany. Just models with blades shorter than 8,5cm.

OTFs and butterflies/balisongs are per se illegal, independant of the blade length. Not sure about balisong trainers, but probably the are ok since they have no real blade.

https://www.outdoormesser.de/Messerrech ... %20besitzt.

From my reading of § 42a of WaffG, AUTOS under 8,5 cm are legal but "knives with one-hand lockable blade (one-hand-folder)" are illegal. :eek:

An AUTO can be opened (and closed) one hand and once engaged the blade is locked. But they are legal and a Delica would be illegal.

Am I missing something? Thanks in advance for you input-
Si vis pacem para bellum ;)

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archangel
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Re: Oh no...

Postby archangel » Sun Feb 28, 2021 10:37 am

One-handed locking knives are not illegal. You may possess them, collect them, and use them at your home. It is just illegal to carry them in public. Same with automatic knives with a blade shorter than 8,5cm: it is legal to own them and use them at your home, but not legal to carry them in public.

Balisongs, OTF knives, and apparently automatic knives with blades longer than 8,5cm are illegal in any/all aspects. If they search your home and find them, you are in trouble.
Michael
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archangel
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Re: Oh no...

Postby archangel » Sun Feb 28, 2021 10:40 am

Salty Dog wrote:
Fri Feb 26, 2021 9:04 pm
Grind the blade down if you are worried.
And where should I get the knife when no German dealer can sell it (cause it is an illegal object), and when it will be sacked by customs upon import from abroad??
Michael
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Menipo
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Re: Oh no...

Postby Menipo » Fri Mar 05, 2021 1:44 pm

archangel wrote:
Sun Feb 28, 2021 10:37 am
One-handed locking knives are not illegal. You may possess them, collect them, and use them at your home. It is just illegal to carry them in public. Same with automatic knives with a blade shorter than 8,5cm: it is legal to own them and use them at your home, but not legal to carry them in public.

Balisongs, OTF knives, and apparently automatic knives with blades longer than 8,5cm are illegal in any/all aspects. If they search your home and find them, you are in trouble.

Thanks for the clarification, Archangel.

Here, any autos are absolutely prohibited. Buying, carrying and even possessing them is a criminal offense, punished with imprisonment. I never understood that because 90% of my flippers can be deployed much faster than any auto ... :(
Si vis pacem para bellum ;)

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Re: Oh no...

Postby TomAiello » Tue Mar 09, 2021 9:17 pm

archangel wrote:
Sun Feb 28, 2021 10:40 am
Salty Dog wrote:
Fri Feb 26, 2021 9:04 pm
Grind the blade down if you are worried.
And where should I get the knife when no German dealer can sell it (cause it is an illegal object), and when it will be sacked by customs upon import from abroad??
Could you find a friendly knife dealer in the USA who could grind it down for you and send it to you?

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archangel
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Re: Oh no...

Postby archangel » Wed Mar 10, 2021 12:58 am

That would be an idea. Thing is, would customs accept it? Would they measure the length, or would they not rather just look up the specs of the original item, and disregards or even overlook any modification? Quite a risk...

I'll see that I get to talk to some qualified customs clerk, try to get an official answer. Thanks, Tom!

Edit: email addressed to German Customs sent. I'll keep you posted about their reply.
Michael
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archangel
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Re: Oh no...

Postby archangel » Tue Mar 16, 2021 6:36 am

Customs Office replied. They said that they'd never make a judgement call. In close calls (are measurements within the law or not) they'd pass the matter on to German Federal Office of Criminal Investigation, they would be the deciders. I could ask them, but... it's all very complicated (federal bureaucrazy...), with extra costs on my end, and no guarantee it will work in the end. The risk to burn money is too high for me.
Michael
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JRinFL
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Re: Oh no...

Postby JRinFL » Tue Mar 16, 2021 7:33 am

Hopefully manufacturers will learn and start to make more models with legal blade lengths for the German market.
Used to be JR in CT with a much earlier join date. :rolleyes: :spyder: Native in 440v was my gateway Spyderco! :spyder: Wharnie for the whin! Friends call me Jim. As do my foes.


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