Help with decision? Sage 1 max vs Para3 max vs Sage 5 LW

[Bamboo]

Hi all,

First thread I'm starting here. Sorry if this sort of discussion has been done to death. I'm trying to pick a knife to treat myself for my birthday, and would like to pick your brains for some external input. I'm looking for a 3inch/76mm folder for general EDC, light-medium duty DIY jobs, and for tasks when I am woodworking. I work part-time at a shop, so my knives do see quite a bit of cardboard. I'm digging the maxamet on my native 5, and have diamond plates and venev's - so would ideally like some higher carbide steels here.

I currently have a sage 5, which despite being a bit 'plain', I do really like it: the ergos are spot-on for my hand, love the comp lock, I like the shape of the blade, and I appreciate the deep-carry wire clip. But, for a 'special' knife I'd like a flavor other than s30v, and unfortunately I am not a fan of the carbon fiber G10 scales. A Sage 5 in maxamet/cruwear etc. would be prefect for me, but since Spyderco don't currently offer that option, this is what I'm torn between:

- I thought about getting some custom micarta scales made for the Sage 5. But in that case, I could also sell my cf sage, and pick up a sage 5 LW + parson's micarta scales. That way I could also benefit from the new bushing pivot. And, as Sal has mentioned, the Sage 5 LW seems to be a platform that hopefully will see some new steel options in the future. Maybe by that time I could do a scale swap. Downside here is that I stick with s30v for the moment.

-Sage 1 Maxamet. Pros: Maxamet :p , I think I'd prefer the smooth G10 scales (though, I would still consider getting some custom scales ordered). Only downside for me is the liner lock. This isn't really such a big deal, but if this is going to be 'the' companion knife I'd love it to be in a lock I really enjoy. Though I have heard that spyderco did an exceptional job with the liner lock here.

-Para 3 maxamet/s110v. Pros: Comp lock, premium steels, similar ergos to sage, many aftermarket options - here I'd go for fireside terotuf scales.
Cons: Blade shape a little tactical for the academic setting I work in - I think the sage is a little more 'universal'. Have to add price of deep carry clip (here in europe that adds around 30 euros to an already expensive knife). Slightly less slicey blade stock.

Sorry for the wall of text, can you tell I'm overthinking this? :o . Any input would be very appreciated.

[kobold]

For me, it would be the Sage in Maxamet. Mainly because I don't really like comp lock and because I like G10 more than FRN. Also, the Para 3 is less ergonomic and looks a little bit funny, with a thick and short blade with the hump.

[jdw]

I have owned both and I absolutely love the Maxamet Sage. It sounds perfect for your setting and the liner lock is really solid. I am not a fan of the Para 3 platform and I sold that version but the Max Sage continues to find its way back into my pocket. It's slices like a laser and, the ergos of this knife are really impressive.

[Wartstein]

....I'm looking for a 3inch/76mm folder for general EDC, light-medium duty DIY jobs, and for tasks when I am woodworking. I work part-time at a shop, so my knives do see quite a bit of cardboard. ...

Good first thread! :)

Well, given what you say you want my thought process would be like:

- The Sage already has a pretty sturdy, thick do-it-all bladestock (same as on an Endura!) - for what could you need a blade stock that is even about 20% thicker (Para 3) and by that a worse foundation for cutting performance on such a small knife? ((For your woodwork, cardboard...)
- Is the Sage pointy enough for you? Do you need a tip that is (presumably!) even pointier, but (presumably!) also more fragile (and that combined with a thick blade)?
- Do you always use your Sage with one finger in the choil? If not, keep in mind that the Sage has a perfectly designed handle for a small knife: flat and as long as possible at the rear end where the fingers sit, to maximize grip area. The Para 3 is quite the opposite: The handle is LONGER on the top of the handle than on the downside where the fingers sit, and that "hook" at the end restricts available space. Again, not an issue at all if you always choke up anyway, but in prolongued work it is sometimes nice to change grips.
- Looks and design is totally subjective, but for me the Sage is totally "spyderco", just a perfectly functional, thought through design for a small folder from scratch. The Para 3, while a cool knife, not so much.
- Lock types: I like the comp.lock, but personally would always choose a good (!) linerlock over it. More natural in use, better to operate with cold fingers or gloves, better ergos than the comp.lock with its cutout on top of the handle

[Wartstein]

...added to my post above: And of course there are Delica, Watu, ... too!

[abbazaba]

I love the Sage, and prefer it to the Para3 by a good margin. However, you already have a Sage, and the G10 is actually pretty aggressive on the Sage1 Maxamet (far from smooth). The Sage5 LW with the bushing is amazing, and arguably the most practical of the Sages.

If you don't think the Para3 will be too cramped for you, I would give it a try. The Para3 LW is a revelation in terms of weight, contouring, and deep carry, but it suffers from the same cramped ergos for my XL hands. Also, I flat out prefer the PM2 (which you should consider if you have any interest at all).

Native 5 might be worth checking out.

Chaparral is pocket perfection if you don't need a robust blade or upgraded steel. Spyderco's S30v and CTS XHP are often underrated.

[elena86]

What's wrong with the liner lock ? Easy and intuitive to manipulate one hand and strong enough for the average user. Spyderco makes the best liner locks in the industry so no worries here. Go get the Sage1 in Maxamet. You'll thank me later.

[Ric]

I would go with the Para 3.

You already have the Sage. CL is pure fun.

I have Sage 1 and Para 3 in Maxamet.
The sage is a bit bigger. The handle is a big longer. If the Sage neary fits the Para might be too small.

[Bamboo]

Wow, I'm surprised that there seems to be almost unanimous consensus towards the sage 1. Especially considering how popular the para 3 seems to be through exclusives and other media platforms.

@kobold + jdw Thanks for the suggestions - no question that the sage 1 would be totally suitable for my needs.

@Wartstein: You certainly argue your point well for the sage. I do find that the thumb ramp/hook on my PM2 sometimes locks me in to a position I don't want to be in sometimes. For that reason, I find that my thumb rests in more natural places on the sage/native. Sometimes having that 'lock-in' is beneficial though.
Also.. you better believe I've looked into the watu! Definitely love the design and thin blade stock. I picked up the chaparral after reading yours and other's thoughts and have not been dissapointed.

@abbazaba I think if I'm picking up the sage 1, I would be selling my 5. Interesting you also prefer the sage over the para, thanks for sharing your perspective. I didn't realise the sage 1 has rougher G10 - that's fine by me I reckon.
I actually have pretty small hands, so maybe the cramped grip on the para 3 could actually fit me well. The sage handle is spot-on for me, but I could probably fit an finger extra if I am not chocked up on the choil.

I have a PM2, and although I really like it, I feel like it's slightly too big for my hands. I like using it around the house/outdoors, but prefer something a bit smaller for edc. I also have a native 5 frn, and I love the ergos on it. A G10 model is definitely something I have considered. And I'm fully with you that the chaparral is pocket perfection - I'm looking to pick up the birdseye maple model at some point this year for sure.

@elena86: absolutely nothing wrong with liner locks, but operating a compression lock somehow gives me that something 'extra'. But then again, I haven't tried a liner lock from spyderco. I'm *this* close to getting one! Just need that little extra push. And you guys here are definitely helping on that front.

@Ric: I feel you, CL definitely adds an element of fun! I would definitely be selling my sage 5 if I got the 1, so no issues with overlap.
As I mentioned to abbazaba, I do have some room left on the sage, so it seems that the para 3 would potentially fit just right. Everything points towards the sage 1, but the comp lock and quirkier character of the para 3 somehow keeps me from going all in on the sage. The sage seems like the refined 'safe' choice, whilst the para 3 is the imperfect one with slightly more personality.

I'm going to let this marinate a little. So far the sage 1 is clearly edging out here. I could always go for that, and keep an eye out for a para 3 at a later date.
Any para 3 defenders here?

[Wartstein]

.......

@Wartstein: You certainly argue your point well for the sage. I do find that the thumb ramp/hook on my PM2 sometimes locks me in to a position I don't want to be in sometimes. For that reason, I find that my thumb rests in more natural places on the sage/native. Sometimes having that 'lock-in' is beneficial though.
Also.. you better believe I've looked into the watu! Definitely love the design and thin blade stock. I picked up the chaparral after reading yours and other's thoughts and have not been dissapointed.

.......
I'm going to let this marinate a little. So far the sage 1 is clearly edging out here. I could always go for that, and keep an eye out for a para 3 at a later date.
Any para 3 defenders here?

- Yes, the PM2 locks the hand in with that "hook" or "parrot beak" at the end of the handle (the Stretch 1 does so too for example).
I actually DO like that a lot... but ONLY, because PM2 and Stretch 1 by having that "hook" lock the hand in in a good four finger grip on the actual handle. So this design works well in that larger knives, but transferred to the Para 3 not anymore (at least not for a bit larger hands):
On the Para 3 that "hook" makes the grip area too short on the actual handle, so one has to use the choil for a good four finger grip. But: As soon as one uses the choil the hand is locked in anyway, by having the "guard" between index and middle finger.
So on a small folder the Sage (or Native) style rear end of the handle are for me the clearly better solution.

/ Well, as you know by now I certainly prefer the Sage or Native over the Para 3.
But still I am somewhat a "defender" of the Para 3, since I think it is a cool design in being a "baby PM2", just not what I like in small folders and more of a "niche knife".
And: Ric has a point: Perhaps you really should try the Para 3 yourself (I mean, many absolutely love it!) and form your own opinion in comparing it to the Sage.

[ugaarguy]

First, is the 3" / 76mm blade length a hard limit? If not, give the Watu a good look. It gives you the bushing / stepped pivot like the Sage 5 LW, a neutral handle that doesn't look you into any grip, and a very thin, slicey 20CV blade. You can get aftermarket scales if you just can't stand the CF/G10 laminate. I'm tolerating the factory scales on my Watu, but the pics I've seen of nice wood scales are really tempting me.

If you like wood scales, what about the new maple scale Chaparral? Very similar ergos to the Sage, thinner blade (which I kind of like), and beautiful handles. CTS-XHP was also the first steel I was able to get hair whittling sharp. It may not be flashy anymore, but it performs.

Para 3? You really need to handle one. My medium length, thick fingers require me to wear size XL gloves. The Native 5 and Sage series are two of the best feeling knives I've ever handled (so much so that I have multiples of each). The Para 3 is a bit cramped and uncomfortable for me, but the Chap feels okay.

A Sage 5 LW would be special with micarta scales, even if the blade is only S30V.

I think we're pretty spoiled that we've gotten to the point that steels like S30V and XHP have become commonplace and somewhat boring to us.

[nerdlock]

I only have 2 Maxamets, the PM2 and Para 3. So I'd go with the Para 3. CLs are fun to fiddle around. Plus the stonewashed/tumbled finish of the blade and the subtle grey of the scales actually make the knife less tactical so it wouldn't really stand out in your environment. Just get a deep carry pocket clip.

[jpm2]

I prefer sage over para, and liner lock over comp lock.
Been carrying a sage1 max since it came. It's one of the few knives I've ever considered buying a duplicate of.

[Wartstein]

I prefer sage over para, and liner lock over comp lock.
Been carrying a sage1 max since it came. It's one of the few knives I've ever considered buying a duplicate of.

Same here. The Sage is such a great design for a small folder (though it could have a thinner blade)

I am actually thinking about getting a Sage 5 LW some day, but would prefer the linerlock of the "1".

The thing is, believe it or not: I want S30V, not Maxamet. Tbh, I shy a bit away from the latter steel: I don´t need the insane edge retention, and am "afriad" of the effort to sharpen it and the presumably more brittleness... ? I also don´t need the higher price necessarely...
And the S30V Sage 1 (if I could find one) has CF scales. Also not my fav.

So: A Sage 1 lightweight would be great , but the Sage 5 LW is very cool too!

[jpm2]

I prefer sage over para, and liner lock over comp lock.
Been carrying a sage1 max since it came. It's one of the few knives I've ever considered buying a duplicate of.

Same here. The Sage is such a great design for a small folder (though it could have a thinner blade)

I am actually thinking about getting a Sage 5 LW some day, but would prefer the linerlock of the "1".

The thing is, believe it or not: I want S30V, not Maxamet. Tbh, I shy a bit away from the latter steel: I don´t need the insane edge retention, and am "afriad" of the effort to sharpen it and the presumably more brittleness... ? I also don´t need the higher price necessarely...
And the S30V Sage 1 (if I could find one) has CF scales. Also not my fav.

So: A Sage 1 lightweight would be great , but the Sage 5 LW is very cool too!

The sage1 s30v CF is my 2nd favorite Spyderco knife
I too would very much like a lightweight "1".

[TkoK83Spy]

Please don't make this decision based on fiddle factor. Such a lame reason to buy a knife. You sound like you're looking to really USE the knife...you already know and love the Sage line ergos. Seems like a no brainer to me!

I'm yet to hear anybody say anything negative on the Sage 1 Maxamet. The Para 3 is similar, but so much different as noted in posts above. Count me in on the Sage 1. If you want the knife as tool instead of a fiddle toy.

[Ric]

Any para 3 defenders here?

:cool:
Sure.

The only better thing than a Para 3 is the Para 3 lightweight. :D

The closing of a CL is pure joy.
Yesterday I used my Sage 1 Maxamet and always want to engage the CL and then I check there is none.

In standard urban use CL is great.
Sure, with gloves the story is different.
Or in dirt, ...

Life is too short to not experience a Para 3.

[Igi964]

If you want some higher end steel, maybe You should consider something from the K390 line-up. Endela for example is the middle size, but there is a lot to choose from Ladybug to Endura. The steel is great if You dont mind patina and some care. Easy to keep sharp and hold the edge very long. Best value on the market for high performance steel. Also easy to mod with lot of nice after market scales, if you wish. To me the unique shade of blue is great fit to patina on the blade

[Sharp Guy]

All 3 knives in question are great choices and it really comes down to personal preference. I have several Para 3s and most of the Sage models. So I'm a fan of all. I thinks the Sages look a little classier but, for everyday use I think I like the blade shape of the Para 3s a little better due to the straight spine. I see some people going on and on about the Para 3s blade stock being too thick. FWIW, I've never had a time when I was cutting something with a Para 3 and I thought the knife would do the job better if only the blade was a tiny bit thinner. Yes the Sage has thinner blade stock and I believe the BTE thickness is even a little less. Still, in everyday use it's hard to really notice a difference between the two models.

I don't think you can't go wrong with either. Pick the one that suits you and give it a try.

[Bamboo]

Thanks again for all the thoughtful responses. I've been sitting with them for the past day or so, and they've given me a lot to think with. I'm hearing the chorus for the sage 1 loud and clear. It speaks for itself that so many here have only positive words for it. And I think I've made my mind up to go for the sage, after all. For some reason the Sage in maxamet gets me more excited than the para 3 in maxamet. Maybe its because the para 3 has ran in so many different steels, and this is the first steel upgrade for the sage series?

This whole decision would have been made a lot easier if I could go in store to handle these knives! Since we are in lockdown, that is not really a possibility at the moment. Thank you for sharing your experiences and making this choice easier (and in some cases, harder! :) )

First, a few clarifications:

For me this knife is pure indulgence. I am aware that I am served perfectly well by s30v. No real complaints on that end from me. But I originally came to knives through my interest in sharpening, and I enjoy sharpening and getting to know different steel types. Plus, I've been super impressed by how the maxamet on my native 5 just eats up cardboard. On that end, there is a real benefit in use value for me.

Please don't make this decision based on fiddle factor. Such a lame reason to buy a knife.

The PM2 was my first 'proper' knife, and I've really gotten used to how the comp lock works. For me, comp lock feels more intuitive than liner lock at this point. As Ric pointed out, when I am using my other liner lock folders, I often find my thumb searching for the lock at the back of the handle. So in that sense, it's not just for the action alone. I am hoping that this will be my main knife for the foreseeable future, and I know that I like and love the compression lock. I was/am not sure if I wanted to commit to a liner lock for that long.

Life is too short to not experience a Para 3.

**** Ric... you weren't meant to defend the Para 3 that well . But in all honesty, I'm pretty sure that the Para 3 would suit me very well here. I'm with you in slightly preferring the straight spine. I've gone through some of the archives here again, and re-read some of the discussions when the Para 3 had come out. Many were complaining about the lanyard hole placement, which is something that really bothers me as well. That's the main thing that is stopping me from going with it for this round. Maybe I will keep an eye out for one in the future, and if you recommend the lw model so much - that will make it easier on my wallet for sure!

All 3 knives in question are great choices and it really comes down to personal preference...
I don't think you can't go wrong with either. Pick the one that suits you and give it a try.

You're right Sharp Guy, I think I'd be happy with all the options (maybe that's the problem?? :confused: ). But it's definitely helped hearing some words from you guys here. Before this I was mostly going over old threads, and that got me into paralysis by analysis. Somehow it helped to get some direct feedback on my confusion. But yours and Ric's perspective make me certain that I need to try the Para 3 in hand and evaluate for myself at some point!


Sorry to add to the deluge of para 3/sage etc. posts all, and thanks for humoring me! :D