Spyderco MSRP Increase for 2021?

[Menipo]

I don’t think some nonsensical political semantics was the point of this thread.
It’s clear to me those involved in such are being willfully ignorant to what each other mean.

Passive aggressive little bouts bother me because they only prolong the already unnecessary argument without ever getting to the point.

Maybe I’m out of line for participating at all, and I’m not trying to admonish everyone I perceive to be unhelpful here, but that’s what I think. The growing expenses and subsequent price increases for and from Spyderco/other companies is unfortunate.

There’s nothing constructive about placing blame here unless that blame is on what causes the prices to rise so we can discuss how, or if, it can be addressed.

Now, excuse my frustration, I will continue to save up for the things I’d like to buy at some point. Nothing I really know to do at the moment which makes that any easier in regards to slowing, or reversing price increases.
So, personally, this doesn’t change much besides being a minor set back to accomplishing that goal.
Maybe someone can offer a suggestion or important information.

If you read this thread you will find a couple dozen posts in which people simply whines / complains / express their frustration (you name it) because of the price increase. Do they offer a suggestion or important information? I don't think so. Are they perfectly acceptable and legitimate? 100% IMHO.

Some Europeans, including myself, have said here that a price increase of, say, 5% in the US, becomes 6, 7 or 10% in Europe "thanks to" taxes, custom duties and other factors that we do not really know. And someone said: "I don't see why Europeans being taxed to death is our problem." “Our” I assume that, as opposed to Europeans, means “We the People of the United States… (as your Constitution says).

That seemed to me an inconsiderate comment (all said in the terms of cordiality that inspire all the discussions that take place in this forum). As inconsiderate as if those who opened a thread or included a post saying that they had received any new Spydie with bladeplay were told "I also don't see why buyers of that new model receiving their knifes with bladeplay is our problem" (in this case "Our-us" meaning the rest of the forum community which are not interested in that specific model).

And as it seemed inconsiderate to me, I pointed it out in an ironic (neither insulting nor disrespectful) tone. If that has started (or continued) a "passive aggressive little bout which bothers you" I am really sorry. As long as the discussions, or even little bouts, take place in respectful terms, they don't cause me any problems. Do they provide any interesting information? Probably not. But just like 80% of the posts that are made every day here. We also come here, I think, to simply chat and meet other fellow knife & steel afis / nerds / fans (you name it).

That said, for my part I end this discussion about foreign taxes and their impact on final street-prices of our beloved Spydies worldwide.

[Cl1ff]

Are they perfectly acceptable and legitimate? 100% IMHO.
We also come here, I think, to simply chat and meet other fellow knife & steel afis / nerds / fans (you name it).

I agree, apologies if I’m too rash in my comments. It’s not the intent to admonish or play moderator.
Just expressing my opinion like everyone else. My words hold no authority in this thread, but it is in my personal estimation that avoiding “bouts” as I chose to call it (lol) would make the better use of this friendly space.

I still feel like I’ve overstepped some line :o
Hopefully not!

[FullFlatMind]

So the price increased on stuff that hasn't even dropped yet? That's interesting.

[JRinFL]

So this thread is still steaming along...

Sometimes price increases on existing model are put in place due to increases in getting new materials to continue to produce the model. Just like gas prices go up on gas already in the tanks at the gas station. They need to cover the increase of the tank refill using the money charged on the existing gas.

Models that have been delayed in production will also see the price increases if the manufacturer has raised their prices or if material costs have gone up.

People need to remember that the consumer always pays the costs of the maker at some point, now or later. That includes taxes, payroll, duties, losses, and every other business expense. The consumer always pays the burden and the maker can only delay that somewhat. No business can absorb the costs forever, they have to pass it along. At least Spyderco is honest and open about it. Can you imagine if they adopted (and they never would!) the method food producers use to increase profits or pass along increases? A Delica that is 20% smaller with a 10% increase in price placed in a bigger box?

[DSH007]

Has there yet been any confirmation of what the increase is? I see some examples in the thread, but is it a straight % across the board or does it vary by model? It would just be nice to know clearly what the increase is for this year, regardless of how we feel about it.

I'm noticing some adjustments, but they don't seem to be as steep as last year.. just a few dollars here and there. Nor do the increases seem to be applied across the board to all models. For examples, Delicas are still $84. It seems the price increases were made more selectively this year?

It looks like Spyderco is trying to hide the increase this time...

We typically release pricing with the new catalog. We're not quite ready for that yet (sorry for the delay, but we're close and working as quickly as we can). I'll see if there is a way to release the pricing separately in the meantime.

We don't do anything "across the board," which is why I don't have an easy answer for you. Every item is reviewed independently and adjustments (increases and sometimes even decreases) are made line by line. Historically speaking, over the years, we've absorbed increases for as long as possible. We don't price products based on what the market can bear, and we work off of relatively small margins. As Sal has said, we're a pretty transparent company. We don't try to hide anything. We strive to do business in a fair and proper manner.

Kristi

Of that I have no doubt, Kristi! Thank you for the insight.

[DSH007]

I'm noticing some adjustments, but they don't seem to be as steep as last year.. just a few dollars here and there. Nor do the increases seem to be applied across the board to all models. For examples, Delicas are still $84. It seems the price increases were made more selectively this year?

It looks like Spyderco is trying to hide the increase this time, at least according to knifecenter.com. They must have increased the MRSP because the MAP is still 30%. Knifecenter was one of the big whiners back in 2015, so I'm sure they are right on time with any price increase. S110V paramilitary 2 for example is $196. Wasn't it around $185 before? Tax and shipping would put it over $200. I bought mine used off ebay with free shipping and no sales tax for $120. It's the only paramilitary I own. Nice knife but at these prices I'll never own another.

I don't think that Spyderco was/is trying to "hide" anything. I do, however, have every confidence that Knifecenter was/is trying to sell as many knives as possible. I imagine that advertising the price increase as they did.. whether or not they had any concrete information about actual MSRP/MAP numbers at the time.. was just a marketing ploy on their part..

[vivi]

So the price increased on stuff that hasn't even dropped yet? That's interesting.

Swicks....

[Gsg9]

Some lads in US seem to be shocked about LC200N Pacific Salt 2 going up 25% in US, they didn't give a duck about 20% up in EU on Lamnia posted a couple of days ago, that now looks like quite a moderate increase :D

And they don't really care about those 5% in US that may translate into 7-8-10% in EU, where it was already very expensive.

I've raised the question of shipping steel to Japan increasing the final product's price and some Kumbaya users jumped on me that I am ruining the Feng-shui of that topic :D

It's not about whining and it's not really intended for these users, it's not about the price of an ambulance ride in US vs EU that somebody mentioned before and so on, just hoping Spyderco sees and takes notice.

The price increase I think it's related to the Spyderco's way of doing business, if Pacific Salt was originally made in Japan by some maker then this model will be made forever and ever for the rest of eternity until the very end of time in there by that same specific maker.

Now with LC200N:

This is European steel, I believe this is the distributor:

https://www.zapp.com/fileadmin/_documen ... asheet.pdf

Zapp Materials Engineering GmbH
TOOLING ALLOYS
Zapp-Platz 1
40880 Ratingen
P.O. Box 10 18 62
40838 Ratingen
Germany
Phone +49 2102 710-548
Fax +49 2102 710-596


So this has to be imported in US = shipping costs.
And thanks to le très gentil monsieur Trump I think there were 25% tariffs added on European steels.

This steel has to eventually :) go to Japan. If it goes directly from EU to Japan the shipping from EU to Japan costs and I presume there might be some tariffs in there as well on EU steels because Japan has its own steels and tries to protect their own market/industry.

Even if they ship steel from EU directly to Japan, when the final product comes back into US for QC, packaging and the famous literature I presume that tariffs may apply for products that are made in Japan with that unfortunate EU steel.

When Pacific Salt was made in Japan with Japanese H1 steel it made perfect sense to be made there. And in those blissful times before zee-Trump there were no tariffs on EU steel.

Now with EU steels it probably makes more sense to make these locally in EU (with Lionsteel?).
To have a distribution center in EU or have arrangements in EU (with Lionsteel?) to distribute these from within EU.

But this is not possible: unless the third US nuke falls in Japan over that specific factory this is not gonna happen :D
OK, I understand loyalty, but this is getting more and more expensive and doesn't make much sense economically.

Spyderco's answer seems to be that it is a small market with high-quality expensive products and they will continue the same way, so that's it boys, suck it up.
Their business, their way...
Our money, our way :D

Personally I think Spyderco is slowly pricing themselves out of EU market.
And covid recession/uncertainty doesn't really help, 2021 will be compromised as well, don't really know about 2022...

[Sharp Guy]

Bottom line here is Spyderco's doing what they need to keep the business going. Sal & Kristi have both said that they do their best to hold prices down even if it sometimes means lower margins on certain models. They've also stated they're a transparent company and try to do business in a fair and proper manner. What more can you ask for? Nobody likes price increases but they're a fact of life. We can all complain all we want. But if Spyderco can't make what they need to keep the business going then there might be other consequences that we don't like even more

[James Y]

Bottom line here is Spyderco's doing what they need to keep the business going. Sal & Kristi have both said that they do their best to hold prices down even if it sometimes means lower margins on certain models. They've also stated they're a transparent company and try to do business in a fair and proper manner. What more can you ask for? Nobody likes price increases but they're a fact of life. We can all complain all we want. But if Spyderco can't make what they need to keep the business going then there might be other consequences that we don't like even more

Exactly.

Does anybody here actually believe that Sal & co. look forward to impending price increases?? I’m pretty sure they also feel a certain level of apprehension every year at around this time. Probably more so, because it’s their business that’s involved, and their customers who will be affected.

Jim

[araneae]

I don't think they like raising prices, but I do think they should know when they are approaching the line where some people stop buying their knives. I hope they sell a lot of LC200N Pac Salts, but it won't be to me unfortunately. Japan seems to be reaching the point where what used to be the workhorse knives are fetching what most knife buying people would consider high end prices. When do you decide that Japan is not an option anymore? There has to be some cutoff somewhere. I have been buying Spydies since the late 90's and never thought I'd have to say no thanks to a knife like the Pac Salt because it stopped being a good value to me. I mean, you can get a decent custom, hand made knife in the $200 range.

And raising the price on knives that just came out, or apparently prices of knives that hadn't yet come out seems like poor form. Better to have made that calculation before you started letting dealers list them at a lower price for some short period of time. Especially a 25% increase. What happens to people who put a deposit down on these knives before they dropped? Hopefully dealers honor the 2020 price.

I'm not sure what's going on with EU pricing, but it's unfortunate. Kinda sounds like the EU dealers are getting rich off the buyers because there aren't a lot of options. Hopefully there is some way to resolve that before they lose the EU market. Maybe Spyderco needs a Maximum Advertised Price policy... Imported goods do cost more, that's just a fact. I can buy a Hershey chocolate bar for $1 or a good Swiss chocolate bar and it's $4, but no one wants to be taken advantage of.

[cycleguy]

Soooo ... I was looking at a piece of fitness equipment before the holidays - $999. Went back today to look again - $1,199. That's a 20% jump between 20 and 21 - Sticker Shock!!! Maybe not so bad around here after all....

I haven't experienced a wage increase since summer 2019, nor was I out of work during the pandemic. I'm certain there are many in similar shoes.

CG

[ladybug93]

Soooo ... I was looking at a piece of fitness equipment before the holidays - $999. Went back today to look again - $1,199. That's a 20% jump between 20 and 21 - Sticker Shock!!! Maybe not so bad around here after all....

I haven't experienced a wage increase since summer 2019, nor was I out of work during the pandemic. I'm certain there are many in similar shoes.

CG

are you sure it wasn't a pre-holiday sale? it's also possible that they bump up prices in the beginning of each year to take advantage of people with resolutions and then reduce them later in the year. not saying either is the case... just possibilities.

[sal]

Thanx Sharp Guy. That pretty much sums it up. When our costs go up, the prices go up. If the cost gets too high and sales drop off, we have to disco the model. As I said, we're open to suggestions?

sal

[RamZar]

Sometimes the costs translate into products where the street price is nonsensical and sales plummet.

One case was all the Japanese-made Spydercos with liners, mostly VG-10 and G-10. I think they’re all gone now and most of the Japanese-made Spydercos have linerless FRN.

Even the LC200N Pacific Salt with the 25% street price increase has a nice alternative in H-1 Pacific Salt for about $20 less.

You have to find alternatives within the brand and in some cases go outside the brand. Alternatively, buy fewer by substituting wants with needs.

It’s also possible that Spyderco by introducing so many new models every year (46 last year) adds too much cost to the bottom line. New Sprint Runs and Dealer/Distributor Exclusives do not have the added associated costs (54 of 100 new models last year).

The combination of MAP introduction back I think in 2016 and then lowering it to help dealers has resulted in further street price increase on top of the annual MSRP increases (not on all models). By helping the dealers, the consumer loses big time!

My Chaparral CF from 2013 was just $99 (pre-MAP) versus $140 now. My inflation calculator says that $99 in 2013 should only be $111 now. Back in October 2006 I took some knife defense classes so I got three Endura4 models for it and they're now 111% more than what I paid for them back then whereas the Cumulative Rate of Inflation is only 29%!

Spyderco Endura4 VG-10 SpyderEdge Stainless C10S: $53.00 now $108.50
Spyderco Endura4 VG-10 SpyderEdge Black FRN C10SBK: $43.00 now $91.00
Spyderco Endura4 Trainer AUS-6 Red FRN C10TR: $42.95 now $91.00

[Mushroom]

Spyderco implemented MAP on January 1st of 2016 at 40% of MSRP.

[RamZar]

Spyderco implemented MAP on January 1st of 2016 at 40% of MSRP.

Thanks. That’s correct and it was after both Benchmade and Zero Tolerance went with MAP enforcement the two prior years.

I think these were all the MAP changes since.

MAP 40% off MSRP: 1.1.2016-12.31.2017
MAP 35% off MSRP: 1.1.2018-12.31.2019
MAP 30% off MSRP: 1.1.2020-

[vivi]

Thanx Sharp Guy. That pretty much sums it up. When our costs go up, the prices go up. If the cost gets too high and sales drop off, we have to disco the model. As I said, we're open to suggestions?

sal

I don't enjoy the price increases, but I can't think of a better solution. I would rather pay a premium for a premium product than see Spyderco ever cut corners or reduce quality in any way.

The only change I'd like to see are budget versions of popular models. The Para 3 Lightweight is a perfect example of the sort of thing I'd like to see across the board.

Police 4 is another great example, as one can get the budget VG10 lightweight version for a work knife, and the fancy HAP40 version for classier carry and higher performance blade steels.

You can see it with other companies too. Baseline Griptilians and G10/20CV runs. 4Max from Cold Steel and the 4max Scout. $40 SRK's in SKZ5 and $150 versions in 3V.

Ideally, in my mind, all the flagship models would have a ~$100 version. FRN / BD1N Military, FRN / BD1N Manix XL, FRN/VG10 japan lightweights etc.

The $150-250 more premium sprints are awesome, but its nice having a less expensive version I'm more inclined to beat up because I know its cheap and easy to replace. Not every job calls for a discontinued $250 sprint.

All that being said I am extremely grateful for all the sprints you guys do that push the envelope of performance. I would not ever want to see that change.

[Menipo]

Thanx Sharp Guy. That pretty much sums it up. When our costs go up, the prices go up. If the cost gets too high and sales drop off, we have to disco the model. As I said, we're open to suggestions?

sal

It is difficult (I would say that even smug) to tell how to do business to someone who 45 years ago was (using your own words) "Homeless and living in a converted bread delivery truck, building product in campgrounds and selling them in county fairs" and now owns and runs a multinational company with operations in 4 continents.

But if you are open to suggestions I will give you a couple with my best intention and for what they may be worth, even knowing your determination to continue operating as you have for the past 45 years, and applauding you for it because the only one who risks money with your decisions is you (not us):

1) The first one is to consider reducing the number of variants offered. The KC says that Spyderco offers products in 40 different steels (BM 12 and CRK 2). Someone said in this thread that Spyderco offered last year 46 new products (BM 16). Fewer products increase economies of scale and more decrease them.

I think that we are a bad influence :D. Every time someone makes a proposal for a new (or modified) product, in the following 10 posts you will find 15 variations. "I like it but with a choil". "I am in but with the blade 1" longer". "I would love it but in CPM - 14,75 and linerless" .... That, if we don't ask for a kitchen knife that can be used as a machete to make trails in the Lacandon jungle or a folder that at the same time can be used as a remote control to change the channel on the TV.

It is possible to offer a very demanding clientele an immense variety of products. But that has a consequence in the P&L at the end of the year. I'm sure you know it, but I'm not sure if we have it so clear when we spend our lives suggesting the nth variant of each model or requesting tailor made products and, at the same time, complaining about annual price increases.

2) As regards the EU, if the European market is not residual for you (and you consider that our problem is your problem) Spyderco has to do something. European higher taxes are not the explanation. I have made some research and I found that the price of a given model (the C95GP2 to be precise) has a difference of 30% (168 EUR versus 220 EUR) in two EU countries which have the same general VAT rate (21%) and, obviously as they form part of a single custom territory, the same custom rates. In some EU countries, customers pay 75% more than the US street price for the same knife. So, to me, the problem is the margin that EU dealers charge. The easy solution would be to order from the one with the lower prices (as we are in a single custom territory it does not matter if it is located in Poland, Finland or Germany). The problem is that EU dealers have a very short stock (a few units of a few models), so finding a given knife means checking the webpages of dealers in all European countries and being ready to pay the "revolutionary tax" that the one who has that model wants to charge.

Maybe a preferential agreement with a EU internet dealer located in a country with a VAT general rate in the low band (general VAT rate in Germany is 19% and in Hungary it is 27% to use just to examples), which would be willing to contractually limit its margin and which in consideration would be charged by Spyderco a preferential (lower) price and would be supplied (in terms of quantity and variety of product) as US major dealers are, would be a step in the right direction. That dealer would become the store of reference of all European Spyderco customers. They would pay more rational prices and Spyderco and the dealer would benefit from an increased volume. Antitrust issues should be considered carefully but I am sure that they could be worked out.

I have already said a couple of times that we, Europeans, are your most loyal customers. It is harder to be a Spyderco fanboy when you pay for a Delica 4 the equivalent in Euro of 148 $, than when you can get it for 84 $. But some (or many) of us keep buying Spydies. However the time might come when, even being able to pay it, European customers will decide not to do it because it is hard to be called an idiot so openly by the one who is your only gateway to obtain a Spyderco product.

Just my two (Euro) cents ....

[PeanutButterFan]

Wow. Pacific salt 2 price increased $25 knocking it off my wish list. It was such a good value for $101.