Have you owned a Spyderco lockback with zero play?

[Sharp Guy]

I read it, and have no idea why it was deleted.

It was actually deleted ? :confused:

It looks like Chad (Xplorer) decided to edit his post for whatever reason

[DSH007]

Reading through this thread yesterday inspired me to go home and check out my backlocks for any play. My findings echo what many here have already said..

My Natives have more solid backlocks than my Seki knives and it's not even fair to call it a competition. Lock-rock, play, whatever you want to call it.. is imperceptible or very nearly imperceptible in each of my various G10 and FRN Native 5s. Coupled with the fact that the standard index finger choil grip adds stability around the pivot during use, I'm not surprised by people's findings about the Native backlocks feeling more secure than the Seki backlocks.

My Chap LW also feels extremely solid, with zero perceptible play in the lock.

All of my Seki backlocks exhibit varying degrees of perceptible play. Some are certainly more secure than others, but to a knife, I'm able to force perceptible lock-rock on each of them. The biggest culprit appears to be my Salt 2.

Ultimately, I don't feel that a minute amount of play in a backlock is necessarily a "problem." Chad's very thorough (I'm also not sure why it was deleted, it was very informative!) post described in detail the intricacies of the backlock and the extremely high tolerances necessary to "manufacture out" lock-rock. I think the anecdotal findings here in this thread are reflective of the great work being done in Golden. That's not to say the knives coming out of Seki are "bad" or "worse" in some way. I don't think the play in any of my Seki knives changes their functionality or causes them to be unsafe. We are talking about fractions of fractions of millimeter tolerances at multiple points of interface.. a consistently functioning backlock on a product run manufactured over the course of years (decades!?) is a pretty d@mn impressive feat regardless of the factory it's coming out of..

[Burton Knut]

I haven’t read through all this yet, but I’ve got a K390 Delica and an LC200N Pac Salt in my pockets right now and neither has any play that I can feel. That’s opening them and pushing up and down on the blade with my left hand and as much force as feels safe in my pinch grip.

[Wartstein]

I haven’t read through all this yet, but I’ve got a K390 Delica and an LC200N Pac Salt in my pockets right now and neither has any play that I can feel. That’s opening them and pushing up and down on the blade with my left hand and as much force as feels safe in my pinch grip.

I think the most common test here is pushing the blade down quite hard on something like a cutting board...that's when I can feel at least a bit of vertical movement in all of my Seki backlocks (which does not bother me at all btw), but none in my Chap.

Just by pushing in a pinch grip even most of my Sekis don't show any perceivable vertical play.

[James Y]

Going a little OT from Spyderco, but ‘lock rock’ in back locks is not only a ‘Seki issue.’ Other quality back locks I have that have much more play than any of my Seki back locks are the USA-made lock backs I own from Buck Knives. They either have from the start, or develop very noticeable blade play after awhile. Especially their lighter weight offerings.

Jim

[VashHash]

I also have 2 native 5s with no blade play. Whatever they did to improve it worked.

Here's a shot of the Chinook 2. It has a little up and down play.


Here's the "new" lock on the native 5. It has no play.

[Evil D]

I was just fiddling with my Rock Jumper, it has zero side play but does have a bit of up and down or lock rock whatever you'd call it.

[James Y]

I also have 2 native 5s with no blade play. Whatever they did to improve it worked.

Here's a shot of the Chinook 2. It has a little up and down play.


Here's the "new" lock on the native 5. It has no play.

I wonder if the lock bar of the Native 5, fitting straighter into its notch than that of the Chinook 2 in the pic has anything to do with the tighter lockup.

Jim

[dj moonbat]

I was just fiddling with my Rock Jumper, it has zero side play but does have a bit of up and down or lock rock whatever you'd call it.

Mine is dead steady.

[VashHash]

I also have 2 native 5s with no blade play. Whatever they did to improve it worked.

Here's a shot of the Chinook 2. It has a little up and down play.


Here's the "new" lock on the native 5. It has no play.

I wonder if the lock bar of the Native 5, fitting straighter into its notch than that of the Chinook 2 in the pic has anything to do with the tighter lockup.

Jim

I was thinking the same thing. It has more area to sink in too.

[Xplorer]

I read it, and have no idea why it was deleted.

It was actually deleted ? :confused:

It looks like Chad (Xplorer) decided to edit his post for whatever reason

I'm sorry guys, I didn't really think anyone had read it yet. I initially posted because I wanted to help people understand where the differences come from. However, I think I was too literal in certain ways and I just don't want to spend any time arguing with anyone about the engineering details of a backlock. After re-reading my post I thought it might just beg some such arguments, so I decided to "edit" it.
If any of you have any specific questions I can answer, send me a PM and I'd be more than happy to share anything I've learned.

But, really...the Native is the world's finest backlock mechanism and Spyderco should be celebrated for that accomplishment! :D :spyder:

[spoonrobot]

The vast majority of the Spyderco lockbacks I've owned have had zero play. The ones that did were a Rescue Clip-It from the mid-90s, a Pacific Salt, and a first gen E4. Otherwise the several dozen lockbacks that have come through my hands have been play free.

[SpyderGrill]

All of them have up and down play when pressing Hard on a surface except the Native 5 Salt, Native 5 Rex 45 and the Dragonfly Salt. You cant feel this in any of them without pressing the blade hard on a surface. No side to side play, which can be adjusted by tightening the pivot

[Cambertree]

Chinook 4. :D

But seriously - I don’t have the G10 Dragonfly and Pakkawood version in front of me, but I recollect they seemed pretty rock solid.

[The Deacon]

Yes, a fair number of them. None of the Chaparrals I own, and I own at least one of every version out so far, has any blade play in either direction. Neither do any of my Native 5's or my Sage 4. Am sure there are others as well, but those three models come most readily to mind.

[tonijedi]

I have several Seki Spyders and a Native 5.
Although the Native has less play (lock rock) it still has it.
It was not abused nor hard used, still, it has a bit of lock rock.
The worst from all I have is a Salt Dragonfly, still, it is among my most carried and used folders.

[Cambertree]

My CF Chap has no perceptible vertical play either.

My most recent Seki lockbacks, the K390 Dragonfly and the LC200N Pac Salt have both been disappointing in that regard. Both have very apparent lock rock if I bear down on any material, or even when cutting binding material like cardboard. My ‘test’ is usually to cut through some looped up pallet strapping. When I do that I can feel the blade give way a little.

I don’t usually obsess over what I regard as cosmetic details, but the K390 Dragonfly is the first of many Spydies I have had that I would have returned or exchanged if I lived in the US.

In the case of the Pac Salt, I asked KW to check the knife for vertical lock wiggle before sending. They said both of the knives they had left had vertical play, so I just asked them to send the one with the least.

I hope G. Sakai’s manufacturing standards are not slipping in this regard, as it would cause me to reassess buying any future lockbacks from that maker.

Seki lockbacks are by far the most represented lock type in my Spydie accumulation.

[The Mastiff]

I bought a used Chinook that had been rode hard and had a little up and down when closed. It locked and unlocked great and wasn't unsafe.

I don't see how one can make that sort of knife and have it unlock smoothly as well as function with gunk/trash in there and have absolutely no movement. Other than the movement being there and noticeable they remain safe up to their design strengths even so with that small movement.