Manix 2 LW: Doing It My Way (no screw conversion)
Manix 2 LW: Doing It My Way (no screw conversion)
NOTE: To see the full-size pictures, you need to click the little yellow bar at the bottom of each thumbnail.
The Manix 2 LW is my FAVORITE Spyderco. I'll not get into why, as it's subjective, and everybody's different. But I'll say that the design is truly elegant in its simplicity, a blade, two handle halves, four lock parts, and fasteners. That's it. And it works great.
You know how there are guys who buy a new car, and immediately tear out the exhaust system, install bigger turbos, and reprogram everything? Or the guys who buy a new rifle, and before shooting it installs a new trigger group, adds fancy optics, and changes out the compensator? Well there are also guys who can't be happy until they take apart a knife and rebuild it in their own perceived image of perfect. Well that's me on all counts. Here is a little tale of busting apart my LW so I could make the blade drop better. Was it worth the effort? Probably not. But the idea was burning in my mind, and I could resist no longer. This isn't meant to be a how-to manual, it's merely documentation of what I did. Maybe folks will get ideas for this or other projects, or maybe some haven't seen the guts of a Manix 2 LW.
Disclaimer: Merely reading this is probably enough to void the warranties on all your Manixes, and maybe even a Native or two. Trying to replicate the following activities could result in turning a good knife into a worthless pile of parts. The wisest among us have already clicked the "back" button. It's probably best to join them.
My inspiration was from a couple guys over on that other knife forum. They converted their LW's from rivets to screws. For my own reasons, I didn't like that and chose to stay with rivets. The rivets I sourced were brass, which would have paired well with the burnt orange handle. But my fasteners needed to match a little better, so I plated them in zinc/cadmium, which I had on hand. My rivets are Part Number 96082A100 from McMaster-Carr.
After the plating was started, it was time to blow apart the knife. I was cautious because the rivets appeared to be stainless, and I hate working with stainless. It's hard to start with, and if you're not careful, it will work harden. The internal parts were also a concern, but I'd just have to cross that bridge when I came to it. I used a starter drill that I suspected was bigger than the rivets, with the intention of just going through the head, and then drifting the rivets out the rest of the way.
The rivets were not as hard to drill as I thought. But here's a thing about drilling rivets. After you go through the head, the rivet can spin in the hole, creating all sorts of mayhem. In this case, as you can see in the picture below, I allowed a rivet to spin, and it melted away and enlarged one of the holes in the left handle. It wasn't bigger than the new rivet heads, but it was sloppy work on my part. I should have backed up the other side of the rivets and been more careful. I gobbed some epoxy in there, just to fill up space.
Close examination of the parts revealed why my blade wasn't dropping to my satisfaction. Notice how the spring guide rod is at the limit of it's travel, but the movable button has another 3/32" until it reaches the end of its slot. I ended up grinding off 1/16" of the rod, which would allow the ball to clear the blade by a greater distance.
And of course I wanted to shorten the spring a hair. I ground off about 2-3 coils. If you're not careful here, you'll grind off your fingerprints and the FBI won't be able to ID you. The rivets needed to be shortened, as well. The same fingerprint risk exists, in addition to burning your fingertips. Be tough. No crying allowed.
The next step was drilling out the internal parts to match my rivets. The rivets are 0.112", so I drilled all the holes to 0.116". The stainless wasn't difficult to drill, but you need to remain aware of work hardening. Cutting oil was used, the drill was sharp, and I didn't dilly-dally.
Here's the knife ready to go back together. The holes for the rivet heads were not all exactly the same depth after I drilled out the rivets, and my new rivets sat too high. I held up the handles by hand to a spinning end mill, and carefully deepened the holes. I left the rivet heads just a hair high, so it would make it easier to back them up and hammer them down.
Here's the finished knife. I think the new rivets look pretty good. The ball cage moves back further now, allowing freer action of the blade. The shortened spring doesn't make a substantial difference in actuating the lock, but the blade seems to flick open much more freely now. Did I NEED to spend three hours on a knife that was pretty good from the factory? Probably not. But I thought I could make it just a hair better, and I did. So for me, the exercise was a success.
The Manix 2 LW is my FAVORITE Spyderco. I'll not get into why, as it's subjective, and everybody's different. But I'll say that the design is truly elegant in its simplicity, a blade, two handle halves, four lock parts, and fasteners. That's it. And it works great.
You know how there are guys who buy a new car, and immediately tear out the exhaust system, install bigger turbos, and reprogram everything? Or the guys who buy a new rifle, and before shooting it installs a new trigger group, adds fancy optics, and changes out the compensator? Well there are also guys who can't be happy until they take apart a knife and rebuild it in their own perceived image of perfect. Well that's me on all counts. Here is a little tale of busting apart my LW so I could make the blade drop better. Was it worth the effort? Probably not. But the idea was burning in my mind, and I could resist no longer. This isn't meant to be a how-to manual, it's merely documentation of what I did. Maybe folks will get ideas for this or other projects, or maybe some haven't seen the guts of a Manix 2 LW.
Disclaimer: Merely reading this is probably enough to void the warranties on all your Manixes, and maybe even a Native or two. Trying to replicate the following activities could result in turning a good knife into a worthless pile of parts. The wisest among us have already clicked the "back" button. It's probably best to join them.
My inspiration was from a couple guys over on that other knife forum. They converted their LW's from rivets to screws. For my own reasons, I didn't like that and chose to stay with rivets. The rivets I sourced were brass, which would have paired well with the burnt orange handle. But my fasteners needed to match a little better, so I plated them in zinc/cadmium, which I had on hand. My rivets are Part Number 96082A100 from McMaster-Carr.
After the plating was started, it was time to blow apart the knife. I was cautious because the rivets appeared to be stainless, and I hate working with stainless. It's hard to start with, and if you're not careful, it will work harden. The internal parts were also a concern, but I'd just have to cross that bridge when I came to it. I used a starter drill that I suspected was bigger than the rivets, with the intention of just going through the head, and then drifting the rivets out the rest of the way.
The rivets were not as hard to drill as I thought. But here's a thing about drilling rivets. After you go through the head, the rivet can spin in the hole, creating all sorts of mayhem. In this case, as you can see in the picture below, I allowed a rivet to spin, and it melted away and enlarged one of the holes in the left handle. It wasn't bigger than the new rivet heads, but it was sloppy work on my part. I should have backed up the other side of the rivets and been more careful. I gobbed some epoxy in there, just to fill up space.
Close examination of the parts revealed why my blade wasn't dropping to my satisfaction. Notice how the spring guide rod is at the limit of it's travel, but the movable button has another 3/32" until it reaches the end of its slot. I ended up grinding off 1/16" of the rod, which would allow the ball to clear the blade by a greater distance.
And of course I wanted to shorten the spring a hair. I ground off about 2-3 coils. If you're not careful here, you'll grind off your fingerprints and the FBI won't be able to ID you. The rivets needed to be shortened, as well. The same fingerprint risk exists, in addition to burning your fingertips. Be tough. No crying allowed.
The next step was drilling out the internal parts to match my rivets. The rivets are 0.112", so I drilled all the holes to 0.116". The stainless wasn't difficult to drill, but you need to remain aware of work hardening. Cutting oil was used, the drill was sharp, and I didn't dilly-dally.
Here's the knife ready to go back together. The holes for the rivet heads were not all exactly the same depth after I drilled out the rivets, and my new rivets sat too high. I held up the handles by hand to a spinning end mill, and carefully deepened the holes. I left the rivet heads just a hair high, so it would make it easier to back them up and hammer them down.
Here's the finished knife. I think the new rivets look pretty good. The ball cage moves back further now, allowing freer action of the blade. The shortened spring doesn't make a substantial difference in actuating the lock, but the blade seems to flick open much more freely now. Did I NEED to spend three hours on a knife that was pretty good from the factory? Probably not. But I thought I could make it just a hair better, and I did. So for me, the exercise was a success.
Last edited by RustyIron on Sat Nov 14, 2020 12:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Manix 2 LW: Doing It My Way (no screw conversion)
Well, I love my Manix LW, I would like the action to be better, and I have none of your equipment or skill: but this is pretty great. Nice work, and thanks for sharing!
-Ward
-Ward
Re: Manix 2 LW: Doing It My Way (no screw conversion)
Really nice work Rusty! Very impressive.
15 's in 10 different steels
1 - Bradford Guardian 3 / Vanadis 4E Wharnie
1 - Monterey Bay Knives Slayback Flipper / ZDP 189
1 - CRK Small Sebenza 31/Macassar Ebony Inlays
1 - CRK Large Inkosi Insingo/ Black Micarta Inlays
1 - CRK Small Sebenza 31 Insingo/Magnacut
-Rick
1 - Bradford Guardian 3 / Vanadis 4E Wharnie
1 - Monterey Bay Knives Slayback Flipper / ZDP 189
1 - CRK Small Sebenza 31/Macassar Ebony Inlays
1 - CRK Large Inkosi Insingo/ Black Micarta Inlays
1 - CRK Small Sebenza 31 Insingo/Magnacut
-Rick
- bearfacedkiller
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Re: Manix 2 LW: Doing It My Way (no screw conversion)
Nice!!!
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sal wrote:Knife afi's are pretty far out, steel junky's more so, but "edge junky's" are just nuts. :p
SpyderEdgeForever wrote: Also, do you think a kangaroo would eat a bowl of spagetti with sauce if someone offered it to them?
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Re: Manix 2 LW: Doing It My Way (no screw conversion)
Very nice job! Looks like an intricate and challenging process.
- Connor
"What is a man profited, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul?"
"What is a man profited, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul?"
Re: Manix 2 LW: Doing It My Way (no screw conversion)
RustyIron wrote: ↑Sat Nov 14, 2020 12:29 pm
Disclaimer: Merely reading this is probably enough to void the warranties on all your Manixes, and maybe even a Native or two. Trying to replicate the following activities could result in turning a good knife into a worthless pile of parts. The wisest among us have already clicked the "back" button. It's probably best to join them.
I'm sorry, but I just had to laugh at this one :D :D thank you for giving something to smile about in the midst of the tragedy happening here in our country right now.
Okay,back to reading the whole post.
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Re: Manix 2 LW: Doing It My Way (no screw conversion)
Nice job. Now that you've unriveted and re-riveted the Manix2, try a Victorinox SAK next. Those are fun and the custom combinations are nearly endless.
Spydergirl88
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- Tucson Tom
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Re: Manix 2 LW: Doing It My Way (no screw conversion)
I should do this. I have all the tools here to do it. I would probably go with screws though. Curious why you chose rivets - again! I have cursed my Manix 2 LW (also Rex-45). The crew must have been rushing that Sprint run out, as many issues as there are out in the field with it. Of course once they get the rivets in and realize there is an issue, there is nothing they can do either, short of this kind of thing. I was carrying it the other day and had the thought, "if I show this to anybody and they want to handle it and check it out, I'll need to apologize -- "not all Spydercos are like this, just this particular one, honest. If you buy a Spyerco, just don't buy one of these darn lightweights, trust me!"" Anyway, very nice work and I admire your compulsive urge to not settle for sort of "good enough".
Re: Manix 2 LW: Doing It My Way (no screw conversion)
A lot of thoughts went through my head, probably none more valid than any other. I've seen two sets of pics from other guys who took apart LW's. The first one, I didn't like the look of the screws. The second one was a little better, but didn't excite me. The screws were 2-64, and at the time, I thought too small. I tossed around the idea of making inserts, then using flat head screws. That would look cool, but in the end, I decided it was too much work.
Since rivets were cheap, I bought a couple bags, thinking they were nickel plated. But they showed up and they were brass. I sat on it for a while, almost deciding to just use the knife as-is. Then I decided that screws were the simplest solution, but I already had rivets. It's highly unlikely I'll ever disassemble the knife again, but if I do, I know how to do it quickly, and I have a lifetime supply of rivets.
Since you already have the tools, you can probably knock it out without much time or effort. I still think that flat head screws would be the most functional and look the best. Good luck with yours.
Re: Manix 2 LW: Doing It My Way (no screw conversion)
Hi Rusty,
Nothing wrong with a "hair better" if you can get there.
sal
Nothing wrong with a "hair better" if you can get there.
sal
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Re: Manix 2 LW: Doing It My Way (no screw conversion)
Nice "upgrade" but why go back to rivots? Screw construction would have hit it off.
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Re: Manix 2 LW: Doing It My Way (no screw conversion)
I do not have the skills, nor the tools, to do something like that. However, I enjoyed the write up about it. Thanks. It think it turned out pretty nice. I have 2 LW's and have no issues. I have a translucent blue and a CS orange exclusive. I do not have the model you reworked. I understand the need to grind down the rod, but why the spring? It seems to me it would make the lock easier to work, but less strong in hard use.
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Follow the Christ, the King,
Live pure, speak true, right wrong, follow the King--
Else, wherefore born?" (Tennyson)
NRA Life Member
Spydernation 0050
Re: Manix 2 LW: Doing It My Way (no screw conversion)
Rivets have the virtue of never coming undone by accident.
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Re: Manix 2 LW: Doing It My Way (no screw conversion)
Neat!
How would you stop the rivets from spinning when being drilled?
How would you stop the rivets from spinning when being drilled?
Re: Manix 2 LW: Doing It My Way (no screw conversion)
That's an excellent question that's been asked by frustrated rivet drillers since the very first time a the end of a pin was peened by the illustrious Walter J. Rivet.ChrisinHove wrote: ↑Sun Nov 15, 2020 4:09 am
How would you stop the rivets from spinning when being drilled?
Re: Manix 2 LW: Doing It My Way (no screw conversion)
Well color me impressed! With our company's workshop I've got access to all sorts of tools, and I've thought seriously about drilling out the rivets on my s90v manix to replace them with screws. But I always chickened out. I drilled out a stripped pivot screw on a production pm2 once, and that was scary enough!
- Julia
"Be excellent to each other." - Bill S. Preston, Esq.
"Be excellent to each other." - Bill S. Preston, Esq.
Re: Manix 2 LW: Doing It My Way (no screw conversion)
This project turned out great and glad you documented the process. Many chuckles were had at the grinding part. Is there a functional difference between grinding vs cutting the spring?RustyIron wrote: ↑Sat Nov 14, 2020 12:29 pmAnd of course I wanted to shorten the spring a hair. I ground off about 2-3 coils. If you're not careful here, you'll grind off your fingerprints and the FBI won't be able to ID you. The rivets needed to be shortened, as well. The same fingerprint risk exists, in addition to burning your fingertips. Be tough. No crying allowed.
Re: Manix 2 LW: Doing It My Way (no screw conversion)
Thanks, Sal.
I was concerned that you might be offended, just as da Vinci might throw a fit of my house painter was to "improve" the Mona Lisa. I know I feel a little sad when someone changes one of my creations. But... now that I think about this, the Manix is Eric's baby. Let's not tell him; don't want to add any undue stress.
Re: Manix 2 LW: Doing It My Way (no screw conversion)
In this situation, it doesn't much matter. Some springs will nick your cutters, and sometimes you can inadvertently bend a spring by trying to get between the coils. In this case, it wasn't a big deal and I just instinctively stepped over to the grinder. And I think that's the whole point of a post like this: there's a bazillion different ways to accomplish a task. You look at the job, look at the tools and materials available, then go from there.
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Re: Manix 2 LW: Doing It My Way (no screw conversion)
Thanks! Too many other projects right now on the front burner, but maybe someday. I appreciate you sharing what you did and how you did it. And I admire the attitude behind it.RustyIron wrote: ↑Sat Nov 14, 2020 9:59 pmA lot of thoughts went through my head, probably none more valid than any other. I've seen two sets of pics from other guys who took apart LW's. The first one, I didn't like the look of the screws. The second one was a little better, but didn't excite me. The screws were 2-64, and at the time, I thought too small. I tossed around the idea of making inserts, then using flat head screws. That would look cool, but in the end, I decided it was too much work.
Since rivets were cheap, I bought a couple bags, thinking they were nickel plated. But they showed up and they were brass. I sat on it for a while, almost deciding to just use the knife as-is. Then I decided that screws were the simplest solution, but I already had rivets. It's highly unlikely I'll ever disassemble the knife again, but if I do, I know how to do it quickly, and I have a lifetime supply of rivets.
Since you already have the tools, you can probably knock it out without much time or effort. I still think that flat head screws would be the most functional and look the best. Good luck with yours.