Endura 4 Stainless Hollow to Saber Grind Change

[spinynorman]

Hello All,

I recently bought a new all-stainless Endura 4, plain edge, and was surprised to find that it had a saber-ground blade, since I remember this model having a hollow-ground blade, which I prefer.

Can anyone tell me when, and why, this change was made, or redirect me to an existing thread about this? I couldn't find one.

Thanks, Doug

[yablanowitz]

First of all, the hollow grind you prefer is in fact also a saber grind. "Saber" refers to the height of the grind being part of the height of the blade, leaving a full-thickness flat at the spine. "Flat", "Hollow" and "Convex" refer to the shape of the grind.

As to why the change from hollow saber to flat saber, the maker's machine for hollow grinding probably broke down so they are flat grinding until they can repair or replace it.

[Ez556]

As to why the change from hollow saber to flat saber, the maker's machine for hollow grinding probably broke down so they are flat grinding until they can repair or replace it.

Um... I really don’t see this being the case. If a machine broke in their production, I would think they would stop production instead of changing a BIG design specification of the knife “until they get it fixed”. I mean I guess it’s possible, but I would think the Seki factory would have a bit of a higher standard for their product. When you have people critiquing the etching of the blade markings and the finish of their pocket clips, changing the TYPE OF BLADE GRIND for a random run of knives seems unlikely. Who knows, I may be completely wrong, and if that’s the case these random flat-saber ground Endura will probably have a high collector value as a result of their uniqueness.

[JRinFL]

Sal said in another thread that the maker no longer can do hollow grinds so production went to flat saber.

[yablanowitz]

We've been dicussing this with Sal over on Bladeforums. The Endura is not the only model affected, the same thing is happening with the stainless Police and probably the Delica as well. When a machine wears out and you have a choice between changing the grind and halting production for an unknown length of time thus failing to fulfill your contract, what are you going to do? Tell your best customer, whom you've done business with for over forty years that you just aren't going to deliver until further notice? Considering how many times the Police has changed from flat to hollow and back, I'd say this isn't the first time this has happened.

[yablanowitz]

As to why the change from hollow saber to flat saber, the maker's machine for hollow grinding probably broke down so they are flat grinding until they can repair or replace it.

Um... I really don’t see this being the case. If a machine broke in their production, I would think they would stop production instead of changing a BIG design specification of the knife “until they get it fixed”. I mean I guess it’s possible, but I would think the Seki factory would have a bit of a higher standard for their product. When you have people critiquing the etching of the blade markings and the finish of their pocket clips, changing the TYPE OF BLADE GRIND for a random run of knives seems unlikely. Who knows, I may be completely wrong, and if that’s the case these random flat-saber ground Endura will probably have a high collector value as a result of their uniqueness.

Just FYI, they have changed BLADE STEELS in the past when there were supply problems, which in my mind is a bigger change than hollow vs. flat on a saber ground blade. Food for thought.

[Ez556]

Are these changes that were directed by Spyderco though? Your (Yablanowitz) post made it sound like its just something the factory decided to do themselves. Obviously Spyderco makes changes as things go on, for recent examples look at the inclusion of Sals makers mark on all(?) the models that were designed by him, and the numerous changes the SpydieChef went through. If Spyderco decided tomorrow to direct Seki to stamp the likeness of Sal himself into the handles of all new Enduras they could. Changing blade steels is definitely an even bigger difference than flat vs hollow, which would make me think that changes like that would have been directed by Spyderco and not autonomously made by the factory. This is what I would assume would be the case with the change from hollow to flat, and if thats what you meant in your original post then I would agree with that. And in regards to

When a machine wears out and you have a choice between changing the grind and halting production for an unknown length of time thus failing to fulfill your contract, what are you going to do? Tell your best customer, whom you've done business with for over forty years that you just aren't going to deliver until further notice?

the answer is tell your customer whom you've done business with for over fourty years that you can't deliver due to whatever the issue is and let them decide what to do, which is again what I would assume happened here. The difference I'm pointing out is the distinction between the factory deciding to make this change autonomously vs Spyderco directing the change (due to equipment issues or otherwise).

[sal]

Hi Ez,

This was discussed with the factory some time ago. Changes in grinders are not easy. In this particular case, the issue is the grindstones and the steel. We are working on a way to sort it with them.

sal

[spinynorman]

Thank you Sal and All for your replies!

I'm glad to learn something new about correct blade grind terminology.

I bought the all-stainless Endura because I thought it was the only current Endura available with a hollow saber-ground blade. That grind seemed to reduce the weight of the knife, and it seemed to cut, slice, and even sharpen more easily.

Even though I own or have owned I'd guess 60 or more different Spyderco models since around 1992, I just keep coming back to the unsexy but rock-solid all-stainless Endura 4.

If or when the hollow saber-grind returns, I'll trade in my flat saber-grind version for one.

Cheers, Doug

[sal]

Hi Spinynorman,

Thanx for your input.

sal

[spinynorman]

Hi Sal,

You're very welcome! Thank you for your responses, and for your first rate products.

By the way, my other faves include the Millie, the Bradley 1, the Endura FFG G-10, the Impala, and the original Stretch.

My gunsmithing years, which began at Colorado School of Trades in Lakewood, opened my eyes to "form following function", and "fit and finish", and my current life as a carpenter and hunter focuses my love and use of knives on their practical utility as a tool, which are usually those that I feel have a "timeless" design. I don't feel that all Spyderco designs have that timeless quality, but the Endura certainly does, as do many others.

Best Regards, Doug

[spinynorman]

And, here's a related question:

Will the spyderedged stainless Enduras be flat-saber ground for the time being as well, or are they hollow-saber ground as before? I would think the factory would likely start with the same blade blanks for both plain and spyderedged knives.

Thanks all, Doug