Besides salt water, what do you find causes rust the most?

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Wartstein
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Re: Besides salt water, what do you find causes rust the most?

Postby Wartstein » Sun Oct 04, 2020 10:09 pm

nerdlock wrote:
Sun Oct 04, 2020 6:34 pm
Wartstein wrote:
Sun Oct 04, 2020 2:25 pm
Off topic, but how is denture cleaner for water bladders? I have an Osprey hydration pack that's developed a funk because it's hard to clean the flexible bladder and hose unit...

I actually use it for that. I assume it will kill all bacteria and the like and it does fight bad smell. But if the bladder and / or hose has already dark spots or kind of a plaque you´ll still have to brush it off by hand (that´s why I switched from Camelbak (which work just fine otherwise!) to Deuter water bladders, cause the latter can be opened wider (the whole bottom of the bladder) and are thus easier to clean)
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Re: Besides salt water, what do you find causes rust the most?

Postby RamZar » Mon Oct 05, 2020 3:06 am

Sea water, sweat and humidity.
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Re: Besides salt water, what do you find causes rust the most?

Postby curlyhairedboy » Mon Oct 05, 2020 4:56 am

Any conditions that create a triple interface between water, iron, and oxygen. That's why mists and sprays and humidity work faster to create rust than simple immersion. Salts help speed this up.

Apparently my summer pockets are the ideal conditions....
EDC Rotation: PITS, Shaman, CF S90v Shaman, Ikuchi, Amalgam, CruCarta Shaman, DLC Lil Native, Sage 5 LW, 4V Shaman, Watu, Rex 45 Shaman, Rex 45 Lil Native, Caribbean Sheepsfoot CQI, Tanto PM2, Serrated Shaman
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Re: Besides salt water, what do you find causes rust the most?

Postby Surfingringo » Mon Oct 05, 2020 5:12 am

The main culprit where I live is just the tropical humidity. I have pretty much stopped buying more tool steels because they rust in storage. Even steels like cruwear and zdp189. I have no plans to get rid of the tool steels I have because they work fine for me in daily use but I don’t want to have so many that I have them stored unused in drawers. I have a couple of knives that I like but almost never carry and every time I pull them out of the spyderpac, I see that they have new rust spots...even if I oil them before putting them away. I think non stainless knives are like old houses. They are much easier to maintain if you are using them everyday...leave them unused and the elements seem to start breaking them down faster than if they were being used.

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Re: Besides salt water, what do you find causes rust the most?

Postby curlyhairedboy » Mon Oct 05, 2020 5:19 am

Surfingringo wrote:
Mon Oct 05, 2020 5:12 am
The main culprit where I live is just the tropical humidity. I have pretty much stopped buying more tool steels because they rust in storage. Even steels like cruwear and zdp189. I have no plans to get rid of the tool steels I have because they work fine for me in daily use but I don’t want to have so many that I have them stored unused in drawers. I have a couple of knives that I like but almost never carry and every time I pull them out of the spyderpac, I see that they have new rust spots...even if I oil them before putting them away. I think non stainless knives are like old houses. They are much easier to maintain if you are using them everyday...leave them unused and the elements seem to start breaking them down faster than if they were being used.
would something like a pelican case work better? I find that stuff stays pretty dry if i throw in a few desiccant packs.
EDC Rotation: PITS, Shaman, CF S90v Shaman, Ikuchi, Amalgam, CruCarta Shaman, DLC Lil Native, Sage 5 LW, 4V Shaman, Watu, Rex 45 Shaman, Rex 45 Lil Native, Caribbean Sheepsfoot CQI, Tanto PM2, Serrated Shaman
Always in Pocket: Hawkbill Dragonfly 2 H1
Fixed Blades: Proficient, Junction, Waterway
Special and Sentimental: Southard, Smallfly G10, Squarehead LW, Ouroboros, Calendar Para 3 LW, 40th Anniversary Native, Calendar Watu
Would like to own again: Currently N/A!
Wishlist: Smallfly 2, CQI SpyderEdge Caribbean Sheepsfoot, Shaman Sprints!

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Re: Besides salt water, what do you find causes rust the most?

Postby Surfingringo » Mon Oct 05, 2020 5:32 am

curlyhairedboy wrote:
Mon Oct 05, 2020 5:19 am
Surfingringo wrote:
Mon Oct 05, 2020 5:12 am
The main culprit where I live is just the tropical humidity. I have pretty much stopped buying more tool steels because they rust in storage. Even steels like cruwear and zdp189. I have no plans to get rid of the tool steels I have because they work fine for me in daily use but I don’t want to have so many that I have them stored unused in drawers. I have a couple of knives that I like but almost never carry and every time I pull them out of the spyderpac, I see that they have new rust spots...even if I oil them before putting them away. I think non stainless knives are like old houses. They are much easier to maintain if you are using them everyday...leave them unused and the elements seem to start breaking them down faster than if they were being used.
would something like a pelican case work better? I find that stuff stays pretty dry if i throw in a few desiccant packs.
Probably. I know myself though and I know I’m pretty lazy about being organized and taking care of gear. That’s why I gravitate towards things like rustproof knives and water sealed fishing reels rather than committing to routine maintenance that I know I’m probably not going to perform. :p

I still very much like tool steels and have a couple that I carry regularly (like my Manix in Maxamet), but because of the high humidity and ocean air here I don’t want to have more of them than I can carry on a regular basis.

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curlyhairedboy
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Re: Besides salt water, what do you find causes rust the most?

Postby curlyhairedboy » Mon Oct 05, 2020 5:42 am

makes sense. I've given up trying to keep M4 shiny, but if it's used daily it doesn't get too bad. just like an old house, as you said.
EDC Rotation: PITS, Shaman, CF S90v Shaman, Ikuchi, Amalgam, CruCarta Shaman, DLC Lil Native, Sage 5 LW, 4V Shaman, Watu, Rex 45 Shaman, Rex 45 Lil Native, Caribbean Sheepsfoot CQI, Tanto PM2, Serrated Shaman
Always in Pocket: Hawkbill Dragonfly 2 H1
Fixed Blades: Proficient, Junction, Waterway
Special and Sentimental: Southard, Smallfly G10, Squarehead LW, Ouroboros, Calendar Para 3 LW, 40th Anniversary Native, Calendar Watu
Would like to own again: Currently N/A!
Wishlist: Smallfly 2, CQI SpyderEdge Caribbean Sheepsfoot, Shaman Sprints!

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Re: Besides salt water, what do you find causes rust the most?

Postby JRinFL » Mon Oct 05, 2020 10:34 am

Of materials I run across in my life, I find pool chlorine to be the strongest rust maker, followed by blood, sweat and the endless humidity here.
Used to be JR in CT with a much earlier join date. :rolleyes: :spyder: Native in 440v was my gateway Spyderco! :spyder: Wharnie for the whin! Friends call me Jim. As do my foes.

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Re: Besides salt water, what do you find causes rust the most?

Postby Abyss_Fish » Mon Oct 05, 2020 11:17 am

uh, chicken juice? That stuff murders my work knives.
I require more lc200n and thinner grinds

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Re: Besides salt water, what do you find causes rust the most?

Postby carrot » Mon Oct 05, 2020 11:27 am

Not washing knives after cutting s*** up.

Not literal poop though, because Spydercos are too nice to be poop knives.

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Re: Besides salt water, what do you find causes rust the most?

Postby JD Spydo » Mon Oct 05, 2020 11:32 am

There is a really caustic chemical cleaner that I've used in really tough cleaning jobs and it's known as TSP ( Tri-Sodium Phosphate). TSP is a great cleaner for extremely stubborn cleaning jobs but it's sure got some really bad corrosive properties to it. I would never use TSP on any steel blade or any other metal as far as that goes. Also you never want to use TSP with your bare hands.

However if I did have to use TSP to clean any type of metal I would rinse it off with clean, fresh water ASAP. Also be careful of most other commercial cleaning solutions of any type.

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Re: Besides salt water, what do you find causes rust the most?

Postby JD Spydo » Mon Oct 05, 2020 11:47 am

Surfingringo wrote:
Mon Oct 05, 2020 5:12 am
The main culprit where I live is just the tropical humidity. I have pretty much stopped buying more tool steels because they rust in storage. Even steels like cruwear and zdp189. I have no plans to get rid of the tool steels I have because they work fine for me in daily use but I don’t want to have so many that I have them stored unused in drawers. I have a couple of knives that I like but almost never carry and every time I pull them out of the spyderpac, I see that they have new rust spots...even if I oil them before putting them away. I think non stainless knives are like old houses. They are much easier to maintain if you are using them everyday...leave them unused and the elements seem to start breaking them down faster than if they were being used.
There is a product put out by "Sentry Solutions" called TUF CLOTH and they also have a Marine Grade TUF CLOTH that I've had excellent results with. It's pretty humid here where I live too and I rub down all my metal tools and knives with Marine Grade TUF CLOTH and so far I haven't had any problems. Whatever is in that TUF CLOTH it seems to adhere to just about any type of metal really well.

I found out the hard way that the use of corrosion prevention type products really helps a lot. But that TUF CLOTH is the best I've used up till now.

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Re: Besides salt water, what do you find causes rust the most?

Postby Pharmagator » Mon Oct 05, 2020 1:05 pm

I started carrying a Military back in 1997... the screws rusted from my hand sweat... they were black, and soon turned redish...

I sold that one, and got a newer version with Stainless Steel screws... never had a problem with rusty screws again...

and, the only non-stainless steel knife I own is the D2 Sprint Runs of the Military, Paramilitary -

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Re: Besides salt water, what do you find causes rust the most?

Postby odomandr » Mon Oct 05, 2020 1:17 pm

i have been making pocket organizers and leather slips recently. I did a bit of research and there is a lot of discussion around chrome tanned leather causing rust when used for holsters and the like. I also found another source that argued modern tanning techniques dont leave enough chromium salts behind to cause an issue. I have stuck to veg tan leather due to having doubts on the source of my leather as I have yet to buy expensive hide. I have enjoyed the process though and have considered some fancy finished leathers for future projects. I did one where i wet molded the case for a bit of retention and sitting in the wet leather the roadie had a small rust spot in the finger divot. i should have wrapped it in saran wrap like i normally do but was kinda testing something and didnt follow my normal process. anyway i saw this and while a bit off topic i think it is within the realm of discussion here
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Re: Besides salt water, what do you find causes rust the most?

Postby Donut » Mon Oct 05, 2020 1:44 pm

People always say blood, there is sugar and oxygen in blood, so it makes sense.

A while back, some dude on here put a (H1) Salt knife in some concentrated chlorine and the blade looked like it melted. It was seriously eating the steel, it was black on the outside when he took it out.
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Re: Besides salt water, what do you find causes rust the most?

Postby Evil D » Mon Oct 05, 2020 5:01 pm

Thanks everyone for the info. Ya'll should make your way over to the Caribbean torture thread :D
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Re: Besides salt water, what do you find causes rust the most?

Postby JD Spydo » Mon Oct 05, 2020 6:10 pm

Donut wrote:
Mon Oct 05, 2020 1:44 pm
People always say blood, there is sugar and oxygen in blood, so it makes sense.

A while back, some dude on here put a (H1) Salt knife in some concentrated chlorine and the blade looked like it melted. It was seriously eating the steel, it was black on the outside when he took it out.
Most Chlorine compounds are extremely corrosive. Most people don't realize that most insecticides have Chlorine additives to them.

You don't see carburetor cleaners like you used to. But those types of cleaners are very corrosive too.

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Re: Besides salt water, what do you find causes rust the most?

Postby James Y » Mon Oct 05, 2020 6:20 pm

Donut wrote:
Mon Oct 05, 2020 1:44 pm
A while back, some dude on here put a (H1) Salt knife in some concentrated chlorine and the blade looked like it melted. It was seriously eating the steel, it was black on the outside when he took it out.
I think I remember seeing that thread when I made a rare visit back to this forum during my ‘extended break’ from it. Yeah, IIRC, it was chlorine tablets or something(?). And didn’t he keep the knife in the container for a good while? Anyway, the human body would be in really bad shape if exposed to that much chlorine in a closed area for that long; your knife would be the least of your worries.

Jim

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Re: Besides salt water, what do you find causes rust the most?

Postby nerdlock » Mon Oct 05, 2020 6:24 pm

James Y wrote:
Sun Oct 04, 2020 7:20 pm

If I were still living in Taipei, Taiwan, I’d be carrying a linerless Salt. Especially during the summer months, but all year, really.

Jim

Hi Jim,

Our countries are much more closer than you can imagine. Lol. Surprisingly, tool steels actually do well in our tropical climate, its just that sometimes it can be a hit and miss with knife maintenance. Which is weird, because there were stretches of time when my M4s and Rex 45 blades didn't go with a hint of moisture protection sitting in my watertight box, and still come out unscathed. It was only recently though that my M4 GB2 started developing spots despite spending most of the time in the box with some light moisture repellent on the blade. I will try to put some small desiccant pouches that you get from pillboxes and see if it will help.

Enactive wrote:
Sun Oct 04, 2020 8:03 pm

I think you need a hose brush. That has made a big difference for my hydration bladder hygiene. Disassemble as much as possible and scrub out. Osprey makes good stuff.

I have had good luck with baking soda as a cleaner too.

Thank you for the suggestion. I will try to look one online because bike accessories and maintenance stuff can be hard to come by locally. I have seen one for Camelbak but I don't know if Osprey makes their own brush. Yes, all of my hiking/mtb packs are from Osprey - really good stuff that's reasonably lightweight and much better than North Face makes nowadays. The price is quite expensive (at least where I'm at) but they last a long time - I still have my Kestrel 68 that I had bought 8 years ago and has been to many mountain hikes with me and still going strong.

Wartstein wrote:
Sun Oct 04, 2020 10:09 pm

I actually use it for that. I assume it will kill all bacteria and the like and it does fight bad smell. But if the bladder and / or hose has already dark spots or kind of a plaque you´ll still have to brush it off by hand (that´s why I switched from Camelbak (which work just fine otherwise!) to Deuter water bladders, cause the latter can be opened wider (the whole bottom of the bladder) and are thus easier to clean)

Awesome, thanks for the reply! I'm using Osprey bladders because that's what they came with my mtb pack - it's really tough bun really tricky to fully clean. We also have Deuter being sold locally - it's an excellent brand too - I will try to look if they have bladders available locally.
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Re: Besides salt water, what do you find causes rust the most?

Postby The Mastiff » Mon Oct 05, 2020 6:25 pm

Most Chlorine compounds are extremely corrosive
Is that what is in comet and Bar keep's friend ? I've seen that stuff mess up a knife that looked like it had been cleaned after use but there was enough left on the blade to cause substantial rust overnight. I changed from those products to other cleaning and polishing products that clean off easier and are more visible. I also take more time and use cleaning them. I also keep a super fine brass wool around for use instead of steel wool. It mars the satin finish less than steel wool when removing superficial oxidation.


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