Spyderco Siren Observations

Discuss Spyderco's products and history.
aicolainen
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Re: Spyderco Siren Observations

#41

Post by aicolainen »

Surfingringo wrote:
Wed Sep 02, 2020 6:48 pm
Hi aicolainen, I’ll throw my 2 cents in and offer a little insight into the Waterway design. One of the goals I had when designing that knife was to create a knife that I could throw in a dry bag and head down the coast on a multi day kayak trip. I wanted a “do everything” knife that could handle fishing, fish processing, and general camping and survival tasks. I wanted a single knife that could do everything necessary in the wilderness and could perform in the harshest of environments.

I actually did just that kind of trip two weeks ago and though I brought a Siren and a couple of other knives to play with, there was nothing that I did on that trip that the Waterway couldn’t handle. It performed fish cleaning, rope cutting, wood processing, food prep...it did it all, just like it was intended to by design. I think the Aqua Salt is a superb design and would be quite capable too. I don’t have an opinion on which one would be better for you but I can tell you that that what you are describing is VERY close to the usage for which the Waterway was designed.
I can't believe it took me so long to realize the qualities of this forum. This is so helpful, Lance. Really appreciate your input!
aicolainen
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Re: Spyderco Siren Observations

#42

Post by aicolainen »

vivi wrote:
Wed Sep 02, 2020 10:20 pm
There are still PE Aqua Salts for $135 shipped for US residents if you browse ebay. Probably some left at knife shops too if you poke around.

For me the advantages of each design is as follows:


Waterway

+ smaller sheath footprint
+ more comfortable for my thumb to rest on the spine due to no thumb ramp
+ more acute tip
+ lighter
+ better grind (ffg vs hollow sabre)
+ better edge retention vs PE H1


Aqua Salt

+ the handle is wider and fills my palm better
+ the handle texture is less abrasive while still being perfectly secure.
+ cheaper
+ more cutting edge
+ Available in SE or PE


Basically I like the Waterway blade better for the full flat grind, pointy tip, no thumb ramp and better edge retention in PE. I like the Aqua Salt handle better, I like the extra blade length and the option for SE is nice.

I could be happy with either one for this role.
Thanks again, vivi. This is so helpful. Between yours and Surfingringo's reply, I think it boils down to a slight advantage in favor of the Waterway. It's a close race and I might get both at some point.
I might have ended up with the Waterway anyhow just because of the fact that it could be a little easier to get hold of here in Norway than the PE Aqua salt. However, the Waterway stands very well on its own and that wasn't really something I had to consider in order to make a decision. At least I think I've made a decision. Subject to change :D
My main justifications:
  • Weight and bulk is an important concern for me, so i expect the shorter length and smaller footprint will be an advantage more often than not.
  • The slightly lower weight is an advantage, if ever so slight.
  • I perceive the grind and steel quality to be slightly more general purpose, hence better suited to such a wide area of use.
  • Grip. While I certainly believe you when you say the grip on the AS is perfectly secure, I've never experienced a knife that is too abrasive. In my experience a secure grip is an important safety feature, both in regards to preventing injury as well as not loosing a crucial tool to deep snow or water, so until experience changes my mind I choose to consider this as a plus as well.
zuludelta
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Re: Spyderco Siren Observations

#43

Post by zuludelta »

vivi wrote:
Tue Sep 01, 2020 1:01 am
Hmm, good question. I'd be more comfortable with the Pacific as a work knife....bit cheaper to replace, easier to clean, and less to think about when opening and closing it multiple times a day. The Siren I still catch myself reverting to different closing methods sometimes.

Thanks for the detailed reply!
vivi
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Re: Spyderco Siren Observations

#44

Post by vivi »

aicolainen wrote:
Thu Sep 03, 2020 5:59 am
vivi wrote:
Wed Sep 02, 2020 10:20 pm
There are still PE Aqua Salts for $135 shipped for US residents if you browse ebay. Probably some left at knife shops too if you poke around.

For me the advantages of each design is as follows:


Waterway

+ smaller sheath footprint
+ more comfortable for my thumb to rest on the spine due to no thumb ramp
+ more acute tip
+ lighter
+ better grind (ffg vs hollow sabre)
+ better edge retention vs PE H1


Aqua Salt

+ the handle is wider and fills my palm better
+ the handle texture is less abrasive while still being perfectly secure.
+ cheaper
+ more cutting edge
+ Available in SE or PE


Basically I like the Waterway blade better for the full flat grind, pointy tip, no thumb ramp and better edge retention in PE. I like the Aqua Salt handle better, I like the extra blade length and the option for SE is nice.

I could be happy with either one for this role.
Thanks again, vivi. This is so helpful. Between yours and Surfingringo's reply, I think it boils down to a slight advantage in favor of the Waterway. It's a close race and I might get both at some point.
I might have ended up with the Waterway anyhow just because of the fact that it could be a little easier to get hold of here in Norway than the PE Aqua salt. However, the Waterway stands very well on its own and that wasn't really something I had to consider in order to make a decision. At least I think I've made a decision. Subject to change :D
My main justifications:
  • Weight and bulk is an important concern for me, so i expect the shorter length and smaller footprint will be an advantage more often than not.
  • The slightly lower weight is an advantage, if ever so slight.
  • I perceive the grind and steel quality to be slightly more general purpose, hence better suited to such a wide area of use.
  • Grip. While I certainly believe you when you say the grip on the AS is perfectly secure, I've never experienced a knife that is too abrasive. In my experience a secure grip is an important safety feature, both in regards to preventing injury as well as not loosing a crucial tool to deep snow or water, so until experience changes my mind I choose to consider this as a plus as well.
Sanding down the G10 of the Waterway or Siren would easily "fix" the handle if you do find it too abrasive.

Like I said I could be happy with either knife for a general purpose outdoors knife, so I can say with confidence the Waterway should serve you well.
:unicorn
Monty
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Re: Spyderco Siren Observations

#45

Post by Monty »

The Siren was the only knife I wanted from the last reveal and I carried it exclusively for a week or two when it finally arrived. Then bit by bit I started carrying the Pac Salt and the Carribbean again. Finally, I ended up not carrying the Siren at all and after a while I gifted it to a friend.

It's a phenomenally well executed backlock, the tolerances and ergos are great (a drop shut backock, wow). Ultimately, it just wasn't serrated.

When a Serrated Siren comes out I'll be ready to throw it back into the routine. Until then, the Waterway serves dedicated fishing tasks just fine and I'll carry the serrated options I have.
aicolainen
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Re: Spyderco Siren Observations

#46

Post by aicolainen »

vivi wrote:
Thu Sep 03, 2020 8:54 pm
aicolainen wrote:
Thu Sep 03, 2020 5:59 am
vivi wrote:
Wed Sep 02, 2020 10:20 pm
There are still PE Aqua Salts for $135 shipped for US residents if you browse ebay. Probably some left at knife shops too if you poke around.

For me the advantages of each design is as follows:


Waterway

+ smaller sheath footprint
+ more comfortable for my thumb to rest on the spine due to no thumb ramp
+ more acute tip
+ lighter
+ better grind (ffg vs hollow sabre)
+ better edge retention vs PE H1


Aqua Salt

+ the handle is wider and fills my palm better
+ the handle texture is less abrasive while still being perfectly secure.
+ cheaper
+ more cutting edge
+ Available in SE or PE


Basically I like the Waterway blade better for the full flat grind, pointy tip, no thumb ramp and better edge retention in PE. I like the Aqua Salt handle better, I like the extra blade length and the option for SE is nice.

I could be happy with either one for this role.
Thanks again, vivi. This is so helpful. Between yours and Surfingringo's reply, I think it boils down to a slight advantage in favor of the Waterway. It's a close race and I might get both at some point.
I might have ended up with the Waterway anyhow just because of the fact that it could be a little easier to get hold of here in Norway than the PE Aqua salt. However, the Waterway stands very well on its own and that wasn't really something I had to consider in order to make a decision. At least I think I've made a decision. Subject to change :D
My main justifications:
  • Weight and bulk is an important concern for me, so i expect the shorter length and smaller footprint will be an advantage more often than not.
  • The slightly lower weight is an advantage, if ever so slight.
  • I perceive the grind and steel quality to be slightly more general purpose, hence better suited to such a wide area of use.
  • Grip. While I certainly believe you when you say the grip on the AS is perfectly secure, I've never experienced a knife that is too abrasive. In my experience a secure grip is an important safety feature, both in regards to preventing injury as well as not loosing a crucial tool to deep snow or water, so until experience changes my mind I choose to consider this as a plus as well.
Sanding down the G10 of the Waterway or Siren would easily "fix" the handle if you do find it too abrasive.

Like I said I could be happy with either knife for a general purpose outdoors knife, so I can say with confidence the Waterway should serve you well.
Ordered. It’s on back order, so going half way around the world when everything is moving at COVID speed, it’ll hopefully be here before
outdoor season kicks off again in the spring :-)

Wish I had it already. Off to a canoe trip this weekend. Would have been perfect.
vivi
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Re: Spyderco Siren Observations

#47

Post by vivi »

Haven't been carrying this knife so much lately since I've been running experiments with my M4 Manix XL and K390 Police 4.

Carried it as a work knife tonight and it worked well.

Image

The extra grippy scales and deep guard were appreciated more with wet or greasy hands than in day to day life where my grip isn't typically as compromised. Depressing the lock and flicking the knife closed was fun. The blade shape was nice for the sorts of things I use a folder at work for.

Don't recall the last time I sharpened it. While it cut everything I needed it to cut today, it won't even scrape shave and there's a tiny little chip in the middle of the belly. Whenever I decide what finish I'm going to give it, I'll make a post in the community sharpening journal.

Since the Pacific Salt 2 is such a familiar knife for me, I think I'm going to carry the Siren at work for the rest of the month to get some more hands on time with the design.
:unicorn
vivi
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Re: Spyderco Siren Observations

#48

Post by vivi »

Finally got the handle taken apart. Soaked it in some really hot but not boiling water for two minutes, and that loosened the thread locker right up.

Image

edit - Here's a few more pictures of the inside:

Image
Image

D shaped pivot hole and the lock-up
:unicorn
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Re: Spyderco Siren Observations

#49

Post by StuntZombie »

I got a screaming deal on a Siren from a buddy of mine, and it gave me the opportunity to try it out without paying full price. I'm kinda glad I did, because ultimately I found the design just isn't for me. It's a very nicely made knife, but I seem to keep hitting that dang lockbar. I was also surprised by the thickness of the blade at the edge. I didn't expect it to be as thin as something like the Nilakka, but just..thinner. That was an easy fix though, and I've been somewhat impressed by how well it held an edge. It's kinda made me undecided on whether I find it necessary to get the Pacific Salt in LC200N in a serrated edge.

In the end, it's a great knife, just not a good fit for me.
Chris

Haves: Lava, Delica 4 Sante Fe Stoneworks, Spy-DK x2,

Just say NO to lined FRN
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Bloke
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Re: Spyderco Siren Observations

#50

Post by Bloke »

vivi wrote:
Sun Oct 11, 2020 9:41 pm


Image

D shaped pivot hole
Vivi, is that all that holds the pivot pin from spinning? Does the pivot pin have a Torx socket like the pivot pin cap screw?
A day without laughter is a day wasted. ~ Charlie Chaplin
vivi
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Re: Spyderco Siren Observations

#51

Post by vivi »

Bloke wrote:
Mon Oct 12, 2020 4:51 pm
vivi wrote:
Sun Oct 11, 2020 9:41 pm


Image

D shaped pivot hole
Vivi, is that all that holds the pivot pin from spinning? Does the pivot pin have a Torx socket like the pivot pin cap screw?
Yep, seems its just the D shape of the pivot holes in the G10 that keeps it stable. Both sides of the pivot pin look the same. There are two torx screws that thread into it, one on each side, while the pivot pin rests mostly inside the blade.
:unicorn
vivi
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Re: Spyderco Siren Observations

#52

Post by vivi »

So I hadn't carried my Siren for about 11 months now, or since making this post.

I had been waiting for the CQI announcement to send mine in for replacement, because even though the knife has never unlocked on me during use, I felt a little uneasy about EDCing it.

Getting it back out and handling it was like trying a new knife. It had been a while. I decided to carry it all weekend before I ship it out Monday.

Since putting it away for nearly a year, the Chief had overtaken the Police, Military, Manix XL and others as my favorite overall design.

After using the Chief a lot the past two years, I've come to value the straight spine with no thumb ramp quite a bit. It makes a massive difference for me in ergonomics.

Since the Siren is another straight spine design, the comparison was inevitable.

Image
Image

I've been using them side by side to do similar tasks. Slice cardboard, point some sticks, cut up food and other utility tasks.

Now, the straight spine makes a little less of a difference for me on the Siren since it lacks an index choil, but I still appreciate the lack of interference in this grip:

Image

Both knives are about the same size closed, but as you can see in the image above, the Chief manages a little more cutting edge despite including an index choil.

Both handles work really well for me. The Siren's handle feels a little meatier at the skinniest spots, and the deep guard is reassuring. Carrying the Yojumbo a lot has made me warm up to the extra coarse G10 more, and I like it on the Siren as well.

I'd give the Siren the nod for heavier cutting. The handle feels more ergonomic using hard pressure in a hammer grip.

The Chief's handle feels better for more delicate work, especially with the choil.

One thing I noticed comparing them side by side, is despite not having a choil, the Siren was getting my hand just as close to the things I cut:


Image
Image
Image
Image




Even though the Chief lets me get my hand closer to the edge by utilizing the choil, when I use that grip I don't use the first quarter inch or so of cutting edge.

The Siren was my favorite for pointing some sticks because the ergonomics felt a bit better during harder cuts, and my hand felt safer being further back from the wood. Less likely to get a splinter.

Of course I could grip the Chief further back, but then I have to apply more force for each cut:

Image

All in all two of the best current offerings from Spyderco. I think once I get the CQI version back I'm going to carry it instead of the Pacific Salt. Between it and the Chief I have my folding knife bases covered quite well.
:unicorn
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Re: Spyderco Siren Observations

#53

Post by Manixguy@1994 »

Thank you for this post . I was getting very close to getting the Caribbean but held off because I like the Siren for the same reasons you noted and thought I should just wait . The front guard on the Siren reminds me a lot of the large Goddard a knife that I have always liked in hand . I personally think it will be a great user for my needs and easy on the eyes . Thanks again MG2
MNOSD 0002 / Do more than is required of you . Patton
Nothing makes earth so spacious as to have friends at a distance; they make the latitudes and longitudes.
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vivi
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Re: Spyderco Siren Observations

#54

Post by vivi »

Manixguy@1994 wrote:
Sun Jan 30, 2022 6:31 pm
Thank you for this post . I was getting very close to getting the Caribbean but held off because I like the Siren for the same reasons you noted and thought I should just wait . The front guard on the Siren reminds me a lot of the large Goddard a knife that I have always liked in hand . I personally think it will be a great user for my needs and easy on the eyes . Thanks again MG2
I haven't owned a Goddard but the Siren had me looking for one on ebay for a while. They look really similar overall.
:unicorn
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Manixguy@1994
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Re: Spyderco Siren Observations

#55

Post by Manixguy@1994 »

vivi wrote:
Sun Jan 30, 2022 7:08 pm
Manixguy@1994 wrote:
Sun Jan 30, 2022 6:31 pm
Thank you for this post . I was getting very close to getting the Caribbean but held off because I like the Siren for the same reasons you noted and thought I should just wait . The front guard on the Siren reminds me a lot of the large Goddard a knife that I have always liked in hand . I personally think it will be a great user for my needs and easy on the eyes . Thanks again MG2
I haven't owned a Goddard but the Siren had me looking for one on ebay for a while. They look really similar overall.
I gifted my granddaughter’s husband my large gray frn . Prices they are asking on eBay are way out of line . Goddards are very comfortable in hand . MG2
MNOSD 0002 / Do more than is required of you . Patton
Nothing makes earth so spacious as to have friends at a distance; they make the latitudes and longitudes.
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Manixguy@1994
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Re: Spyderco Siren Observations

#56

Post by Manixguy@1994 »

Siren ordered today ! MG2
MNOSD 0002 / Do more than is required of you . Patton
Nothing makes earth so spacious as to have friends at a distance; they make the latitudes and longitudes.
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Wartstein
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Re: Spyderco Siren Observations

#57

Post by Wartstein »

Guess I'll have to stop hoping for an FRN Siren and pull the trigger on the current version (cqi-ed). Not right now, but soon.
It has a lot of features I like, and since I learned that LC is not only super rust proof (nothing I'd need), but also very tough I appreciate that steel a lot more in a grippy, secure, hard use outdoor folder like the Siren.
And: Lances fixed blade design (Waterway) works great for me. I am sure the "folding version" will too.
Top three going by pocket-time (update March 24):
- EDC: Endura thin red line ffg combo edge (VG10); Wayne Goddard PE (4V), Endela SE (VG10)
-Mountains/outdoors: Pac.Salt 1 SE (H1), Salt 2 SE (LC200N), and also Wayne Goddard PE (4V)
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Re: Spyderco Siren Observations

#58

Post by vivi »

If you like the Waterway I'm sure you'll enjoy using the Siren. Just be warned it doesn't have the best handle to blade ratio ;)
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Re: Spyderco Siren Observations

#59

Post by Wartstein »

vivi wrote:
Mon Jan 31, 2022 2:06 pm
If you like the Waterway I'm sure you'll enjoy using the Siren. Just be warned it doesn't have the best handle to blade ratio ;)


:') :')

I know that!
But actually, if anything, I care for closed length to cutting edge ratio, and concerning this the Siren is almost as good as the Endura (3mm more closed length, 1 mm more cutting edge).
And if a folder does offer an Endura cutting edge length or more (and by that qualifies as a true general all purpose EDC folder for me), I am less concerned with this matter anyway... ;)
Top three going by pocket-time (update March 24):
- EDC: Endura thin red line ffg combo edge (VG10); Wayne Goddard PE (4V), Endela SE (VG10)
-Mountains/outdoors: Pac.Salt 1 SE (H1), Salt 2 SE (LC200N), and also Wayne Goddard PE (4V)
vivi
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Re: Spyderco Siren Observations

#60

Post by vivi »

Image

New one came in the mail today.

Tested if the lock is fixed and can confirm the problem is completely gone in this example.

The scales also feel more rounded along the edges, but I don't have my original to compare side by side.

Everything about the fit and finish is on par with my old one or better.

I'll be carrying it a lot over the next few months.
:unicorn
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