Odds of more choil-less designs

[Wartstein]

.....

Thanks for posting the pics.

Nobody has yet mentioned the superior aesthetics of the 50/50 choil knives when they're closed. Their shape has an elegant flow. The choil-deficient knives have an interrupted, choppy look to them.

I'd like a choilless blade that looked good when closed. And it would have to be a CBBL, to keep my fingers out of the way as the blade drops closed.

You probably already have "heard" me saying this, but still and for anyone who might not (or new members who might believe in some of the common misconceptions about locks):

It could also be a backlock, since it is no problem to close this lock with fingers all the time completely out of the blade path.
Plus, there are several additional very convenient ways of closing a backlock without dropping the blade in your forefinger.
Actually, in my experience, the backlock offers the most overall and also the most safe for the fingers one handed closing methods

[RustyIron]

It could also be a backlock, since it is no problem to close this lock with fingers all the time completely out of the blade path.

Not all of us are, nor do we aspire to be, fidgetmasters with a vast array of tricks to amaze our TicTok followers.

[Evil D]

It could also be a backlock, since it is no problem to close this lock with fingers all the time completely out of the blade path.
Plus, there are several additional very convenient ways of closing a backlock without dropping the blade in your forefinger.
Actually, in my experience, the backlock offers the most overall and also the most safe for the fingers one handed closing methods

I believe Sal's stance on that is basically that 30 years of back locks that drop safely onto your finger has created a customer base that expects that, and it could be potentially dangerous to offer a back lock that doesn't have that "feature".

Personally I have to admit, that motion is second nature when I'm closing back locks so I completely understand where he's coming from. I spent 5 years carrying a Native and closed it by pressing the lock and deliberately wrist flicking the knife so the blade swung down and hit my finger. That was something I was really impressed with about that knife, so it's a little ironic to me that I'm now part of the push to bring in more designs that don't have choils. However, if it can be done the way the Rock Jumper does it, I consider that a win-win.

There's a similar mechanic with closing a Military, I let the blade fall down onto my thumb and the choil hits my thumb instead of the blade. I once tried that with my Nilakka without thinking about it and immediately got cut.

[wrdwrght]

The Ulize, the Siren, and Sal’s own Caribbean (not to forget the timeless Endura/Delica models and their derivatives) are certainly powerful arguments for more choil-less Spydies, so long as their ricasso saves your index finger at the last second.

Oddly, the Caly 3.5, which offers a choil, offers no such protection on closing...

[kennethsime]

I'm happy that Spyderco is exploring a new direction, and am excited for the Leaf Jumper.

I do hope that timelesss models like the Native don't lose their choil. The 50/50 choil offers a lot more control, especially in the smaller knives, at a cost of a minuscule amount of edge length.

SteelCity's picture illustrates this rather well.

The Native 5 has a blade length of 2.98", and an edge length of 2.45", in a knife which is overall 6.95".

The Spyopera has a blade length of 2.9" and an edge length of 2.72"in a knife which is overall 6.9".

So, in the Native, you have over 82% of the blade devoted to cutting edge, and in the Spyopera you have almost 94% of the blade devoted to cutting edge. I will happily give up 12% of the cutting edge if I get significantly more control over what's left.

Interestingly, the Dragonfly is very similar to the Native; it devotes just over 82% of it's blade length to cutting edge. The PM2 & Para 3 are more like 88%, and the Military is 91%. The Delica is just over 88%.

[Bemo]

Oddly, the Caly 3.5, which offers a choil, offers no such protection on closing...

Sadly found that out. About the only flaw in the knife and is asking for CQI. But back to the topic....

[Wartstein]

It could also be a backlock, since it is no problem to close this lock with fingers all the time completely out of the blade path.

Not all of us are, nor do we aspire to be, fidgetmasters with a vast array of tricks to amaze our TicTok followers.

With all due respect, but that´s a bit of a weird statement... ?!

The alternative safe backlock closing methods imho are as easy and as easy to learn as the "drop the choil/Ricasso on your finger method". No need to be a "fidget master" for that, just necessary to be open for alternative approaches and perhaps adept for one or two weeks.
Not saying that everybody wants or even has to adept, but if: Quite easy to do.

I certainly am no fidget master, but just using backlocks a lot. I just naturally developed or used one of the NOT let-the-blade-drop-on-the-forefinger-methods when I first got a backlock knife (did not even have internet back then, and had no idea how other people closed their backlocks).
The nice thing about a backlock is: Methods where the fingers are NOT all the time completely out of the blade path are still very safe, since the blade does not get "loose and floppy" in the end of the closing process, like it would be with for example a comp.lock.

Funny thing is: While I don´t use this method on backlocks, I DO close the CBBL by letting the choil drop on the index finger when releasing the lock just with one finger (thumb), and letting it drop on the middle finger when releasing the lock with two fingers (thumb and index finger)...

/ PS: Had to google what "Tic Toc" is... :)

[Wartstein]

It could also be a backlock, since it is no problem to close this lock with fingers all the time completely out of the blade path.
Plus, there are several additional very convenient ways of closing a backlock without dropping the blade in your forefinger.
Actually, in my experience, the backlock offers the most overall and also the most safe for the fingers one handed closing methods

I believe Sal's stance on that is basically that 30 years of back locks that drop safely onto your finger has created a customer base that expects that, and it could be potentially dangerous to offer a back lock that doesn't have that "feature".

Personally I have to admit, that motion is second nature when I'm closing back locks so I completely understand where he's coming from. I spent 5 years carrying a Native and closed it by pressing the lock and deliberately wrist flicking the knife so the blade swung down and hit my finger. That was something I was really impressed with about that knife, so it's a little ironic to me that I'm now part of the push to bring in more designs that don't have choils. However, if it can be done the way the Rock Jumper does it, I consider that a win-win.

There's a similar mechanic with closing a Military, I let the blade fall down onto my thumb and the choil hits my thumb instead of the blade. I once tried that with my Nilakka without thinking about it and immediately got cut.

I can understand that of course. Customers who get cut before realizing that on a a particular backlock model a different closing method is necessary would not be good for Spyderco. And so I guess seen from that point of view a backlock model where this could happen is probably not a good idea.

Still, and also see my reply to Rusty Iron above: I think generally people who really use their knives would switch to one of the alternative methods and get used to them rather quickly.

[MichaelScott]

I like choils. They provide more security and control and the few fractions of an inch you have to give up on the edge is insignificant in comparison.

[skeeg11]

Finger nails and thumb nails are your friend. With back locks it's your forefinger nail. With Frame locks or liner locks, it's your thumb nail. I've gotten into the habit where my finger nail or thumb nail is the first thing the blade/ricasso will contact when closing.

[wrdwrght]

I like choils. They provide more security and control and the few fractions of an inch you have to give up on the edge is insignificant in comparison.

This implacable devotion from the man who suggested one-hand opening is a dead-end? :p