What makes a metal a metal

Discuss Spyderco's products and history.
User avatar
Doc Dan
Member
Posts: 9697
Joined: Thu Nov 08, 2012 4:25 am
Location: In a dimension as vast as space and as timeless as infinity.

What makes a metal a metal

Postby Doc Dan » Wed Jun 24, 2020 5:00 am

https://phys.org/news/2020-06-phd-stude ... books.html

This is an interesting experiment to determine exactly what makes a metal, metal. This is interesting to those who are interested in knife steels, like many Spyderco nuts.
I Pray Heaven to Bestow The Best of Blessing on THIS HOUSE, and on ALL that shall hereafter Inhabit it. May none but Honest and Wise Men ever rule under This Roof! (John Adams regarding the White House)

Follow the Christ, the King,
Live pure, speak true, right wrong, follow the King--
Else, wherefore born?" (Tennyson)


NRA Life Member
Spydernation 0050

User avatar
attila
Member
Posts: 1298
Joined: Fri Apr 29, 2016 9:20 am
Location: Maryland

Re: What makes a metal a metal

Postby attila » Wed Jun 24, 2020 7:23 am

Thanks for that fascinating read!
Own: Delica, yOld S30V Native, pointy Breeden Rescue, Delica, HAP40 Endura, ZDP DF2, S110V Manix LW,Pakka Delica, Cru-wear Para 3, SE H1 DF2, M4 Manix, HAP40 Caly 3, S90V Native 5, K390 Urban, Pakka DF2, Cruwear PM2, SE Pac Salt, HAP40 Jazzlica, S110V Native, P.I.T.S., DLC Manix, REX 45 PM2, Para 3, XHP Manix LW, SB Caly 3, 20CV PM2, Rhino, SB Calypso Jr., B70P, PMA11, K03, ZDP Stretch 2, Kapara, REX 45 Military, 154CM Manix LW, 204p PM2, Swick, SG Delica, BL Lil'Native, AEB-L Urban, HAP40 Stretch, KC Cruwear Manix,Cruwear Military, M390 PM2, Cruwear Delica, 4V Lil'Native, Mantra 2, CruCarta Shaman, M390 Para 3 LW, M390 Manix, K390 Police 4, RexWood Shaman, DLC Cruwear Shaman, Rex 45 Manix, Native 5, Native LW, 204p Para 3, S45VN PM2, S90V Manix LW, 20CV Manix, Rex 45 Lil’Native, Shaman, C208GP Cruwear Manix

Waiting for: SPY27, K490, Swick 5, and something purple
.

User avatar
JRinFL
Member
Posts: 944
Joined: Wed Nov 18, 2015 10:30 am
Location: Unfashionable West End of the Galaxy

Re: What makes a metal a metal

Postby JRinFL » Wed Jun 24, 2020 8:00 am

I thought it was duel lead guitars, long hair, and head banging?
Used to be JR in CT with a much earlier join date. :rolleyes: :spyder: Native in 440v was my gateway Spyderco! :spyder: Wharnie for the whin! Friends call me Jim. As do my foes.

Pokey
Member
Posts: 325
Joined: Fri May 08, 2020 1:11 pm
Location: Thornton, Colorado

Re: What makes a metal a metal

Postby Pokey » Wed Jun 24, 2020 7:44 pm

JRinFL wrote:
Wed Jun 24, 2020 8:00 am
I thought it was duel lead guitars, long hair, and head banging?
A mullet?

User avatar
Doc Dan
Member
Posts: 9697
Joined: Thu Nov 08, 2012 4:25 am
Location: In a dimension as vast as space and as timeless as infinity.

Re: What makes a metal a metal

Postby Doc Dan » Wed Jun 24, 2020 10:48 pm

I wonder what Larrin has to say?
I Pray Heaven to Bestow The Best of Blessing on THIS HOUSE, and on ALL that shall hereafter Inhabit it. May none but Honest and Wise Men ever rule under This Roof! (John Adams regarding the White House)

Follow the Christ, the King,
Live pure, speak true, right wrong, follow the King--
Else, wherefore born?" (Tennyson)


NRA Life Member
Spydernation 0050

User avatar
DougC-3
Member
Posts: 3554
Joined: Mon Apr 22, 2013 2:22 pm
Location: Southeastern USA

Re: What makes a metal a metal

Postby DougC-3 » Thu Jun 25, 2020 2:19 am

That's interesting. I was a little surprised that they said "only metals are able to conduct electricity." If they meant that literally, I guess that means that distilled water, people, etc, have enough metal ions in solution to qualify :D
:spyder: :cool:

User avatar
Larrin
Member
Posts: 622
Joined: Thu May 10, 2018 9:27 am
Contact:

Re: What makes a metal a metal

Postby Larrin » Thu Jun 25, 2020 5:16 am

I didn’t understand from this article what they were trying to do exactly. Defining what a metal is Is fuzzy because of all the different definitions used, most elements on the periodic table are in fact metals but there are lots of fuzzy boundaries. A journal article would probably make more sense. The whole angle on discovering what a metal is might just be a spin to give broader appeal to a pretty specific experiment.
http://www.KnifeSteelNerds.com - Steel Metallurgy topics related to knives

User avatar
RustyIron
Member
Posts: 564
Joined: Mon Mar 18, 2019 9:01 pm
Location: La Habra, CA
Contact:

Re: What makes a metal a metal

Postby RustyIron » Thu Jun 25, 2020 6:29 am

DougC-3 wrote:
Thu Jun 25, 2020 2:19 am
I was a little surprised that they said "only metals are able to conduct electricity." If they meant that literally, I guess that means that distilled water, people, etc, have enough metal ions in solution to qualify :D
I am by no means knowledgable on the atomic structure of metals... but then again... nobody is. That's why this avenue of inquiry has the potential to be so revolutionary.

But the reason I'm typing is because your basic premise is flawed. Distilled water is a pretty awful conductor of electricity. It's pretty easy to prove via experiment using household stuff.

User avatar
Doc Dan
Member
Posts: 9697
Joined: Thu Nov 08, 2012 4:25 am
Location: In a dimension as vast as space and as timeless as infinity.

Re: What makes a metal a metal

Postby Doc Dan » Thu Jun 25, 2020 8:37 am

Larrin wrote:
Thu Jun 25, 2020 5:16 am
I didn’t understand from this article what they were trying to do exactly. Defining what a metal is Is fuzzy because of all the different definitions used, most elements on the periodic table are in fact metals but there are lots of fuzzy boundaries. A journal article would probably make more sense. The whole angle on discovering what a metal is might just be a spin to give broader appeal to a pretty specific experiment.
I think the article is not written well enough. I am intrigued by the science of determining exactly what a metal is. This was a topic when I took chemistry so many years ago.

It would be interesting to look at the actual experiment.

What is your take on this? What defines "metal"?
I Pray Heaven to Bestow The Best of Blessing on THIS HOUSE, and on ALL that shall hereafter Inhabit it. May none but Honest and Wise Men ever rule under This Roof! (John Adams regarding the White House)

Follow the Christ, the King,
Live pure, speak true, right wrong, follow the King--
Else, wherefore born?" (Tennyson)


NRA Life Member
Spydernation 0050

User avatar
Larrin
Member
Posts: 622
Joined: Thu May 10, 2018 9:27 am
Contact:

Re: What makes a metal a metal

Postby Larrin » Thu Jun 25, 2020 9:17 am

I honestly don’t remember spending much time on defining what a metal is in materials or metallurgy courses. Maybe it is a question more chemists or physicists spend time on.
http://www.KnifeSteelNerds.com - Steel Metallurgy topics related to knives

User avatar
dj moonbat
Member
Posts: 1358
Joined: Sat Mar 27, 2010 11:58 am
Location: Sunny SoCal

Re: What makes a metal a metal

Postby dj moonbat » Thu Jun 25, 2020 1:57 pm

What I want to know is how they make those shiny things you put around a Hot Pocket to make ‘em crispy without using metal.

soc_monki
Member
Posts: 692
Joined: Mon Feb 11, 2019 8:54 am

Re: What makes a metal a metal

Postby soc_monki » Thu Jun 25, 2020 2:18 pm

dj moonbat wrote:
Thu Jun 25, 2020 1:57 pm
What I want to know is how they make those shiny things you put around a Hot Pocket to make ‘em crispy without using metal.
It's magic. That's the only explanation. The hot pocket guys must have wizards on staff.
Spyderco : Resilience, Tenacious, Persistence, Manix 2 G10, Para 3 G10, Para 3 LW, Paramilitary 2,
BBS Paramilitary 2, Amalgam, Native Chief, Blade HQ Manix 2 XL, Shaman, Gayle Bradley 2, DLC M4 Shaman, Magnitude
Kershaw : Tone, Thermite, Atmos, Natrix 7007cf, Natrix 7008cf, Bareknuckle 7777, Bareknuckle 20cv, Concierge, 7777CFM390 Bareknuckle
Zero Tolerance : 0566CF, 0770CF, 0770GRYBW, 0562CF, 0470, 0456CF, 0095BW, 0801TI
Ontario : Rat 1
CRKT : Caligo
Civivi : Plethiros, Baklash, Incite, Vexer
Cold Steel : AD10, 4Max Scout, SR1 Lite, SRK
Benchmade : Contego, Crooked River, Custom Crooked River, Super Freek, Mini Crooked River, Custom Mini Crooked River, 940-2, 550-1 Griptilian, 950bk Rift, 940-1, Custom Sheepsfoot Griptilian
Buck : 110, Bucklite 422, 110 LT, 110 Slim Select, 112 Slim Pro, Custom 110, 1978-79 110, 119
Artisan : Tradition
Hogue : Ritter RSK MK1-G2
Kabar : Becker BK2, BK10, Dog's Head, BK7
Hinderer : XM-18, XM-24

User avatar
Larrin
Member
Posts: 622
Joined: Thu May 10, 2018 9:27 am
Contact:

Re: What makes a metal a metal

Postby Larrin » Thu Jun 25, 2020 3:58 pm

dj moonbat wrote:
Thu Jun 25, 2020 1:57 pm
What I want to know is how they make those shiny things you put around a Hot Pocket to make ‘em crispy without using metal.
I think "crispy" may be a bit of an exaggeration.
http://www.KnifeSteelNerds.com - Steel Metallurgy topics related to knives

User avatar
Xplorer
Member
Posts: 744
Joined: Sat Apr 18, 2015 11:41 pm

Re: What makes a metal a metal

Postby Xplorer » Thu Jun 25, 2020 4:43 pm

dj moonbat wrote:
Thu Jun 25, 2020 1:57 pm
What I want to know is how they make those shiny things you put around a Hot Pocket to make ‘em crispy without using metal.
:D Vacuum deposition aluminum on a food safe PP laminate applied to a heavy paper backing.
:spyder: Spyderco fan and collector since 1991. :spyder:
Father of 2, nature explorer, custom knife maker.
@Xplorer42 on Instagram.

User avatar
Bloke
Member
Posts: 4721
Joined: Fri May 13, 2016 12:43 am
Location: Sydney, Australia.

Re: What makes a metal a metal

Postby Bloke » Thu Jun 25, 2020 8:34 pm

Doc Dan wrote:
Thu Jun 25, 2020 8:37 am
when I took chemistry
Image
A day without laughter is a day wasted. ~ Charlie Chaplin

James Y
Member
Posts: 2412
Joined: Fri Sep 24, 2004 10:33 am
Location: Southern CA

Re: What makes a metal a metal

Postby James Y » Thu Jun 25, 2020 8:37 pm

Bloke wrote:
Thu Jun 25, 2020 8:34 pm
Doc Dan wrote:
Thu Jun 25, 2020 8:37 am
when I took chemistry
Image
😂

Jim

cali
Member
Posts: 44
Joined: Sun Apr 16, 2006 10:08 am

Re: What makes a metal a metal

Postby cali » Thu Jun 25, 2020 10:53 pm

IMO a much better explanation of the experiment:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mv_enhLIea8

It is all about forming band structure in metals, not about determining what a metal is. Can't relate in to knives though.

User avatar
Doc Dan
Member
Posts: 9697
Joined: Thu Nov 08, 2012 4:25 am
Location: In a dimension as vast as space and as timeless as infinity.

Re: What makes a metal a metal

Postby Doc Dan » Thu Jun 25, 2020 11:31 pm

Bloke wrote:
Thu Jun 25, 2020 8:34 pm
Doc Dan wrote:
Thu Jun 25, 2020 8:37 am
when I took chemistry
Image
Hahahaha! One of my profs blew up the lab with a super strong base.
I Pray Heaven to Bestow The Best of Blessing on THIS HOUSE, and on ALL that shall hereafter Inhabit it. May none but Honest and Wise Men ever rule under This Roof! (John Adams regarding the White House)

Follow the Christ, the King,
Live pure, speak true, right wrong, follow the King--
Else, wherefore born?" (Tennyson)


NRA Life Member
Spydernation 0050

User avatar
JacksonKnives
Member
Posts: 763
Joined: Thu Jan 10, 2008 8:28 pm
Location: Formerly Alberta, now Orange County, California
Contact:

Re: What makes a metal a metal

Postby JacksonKnives » Thu Jun 25, 2020 11:53 pm

Doc Dan wrote:
Thu Jun 25, 2020 8:37 am
I am intrigued by the science of determining exactly what a metal is. This was a topic when I took chemistry so many years ago.
It's important to remember that a technical definition like "metal" is fairly arbitrary. The topic for discussion is not really "what is metal?" but rather "in what way is 'metal' actually a useful category to talk about?"

"Science" (verifiable human knowledge, or the process or enterprise of growing that knowledge) cannot teach you the definitions of "metal." Experiments can help you learn about properties, and help you find ways some materials are more or less alike, but to decide what gets called "metal" you need to get scientists to agree on a useful definition that they will actually use.

If this student is trying to find out more about solvating electrons in exotic compounds, good for him, but it can't really change the definition of metal unless the findings allow for an entirely new way of looking at elements that replaces all the old definitions.

Imagine someone said "I'm going to use science to prove that a drop point blade is actually a clip point." Those names are not scientific facts. Science can't tell us what to call a knife. You could make a good argument based on scientific comparison, but that doesn't dictate definitions we use all by itself, the definition also has to work well for the people who will use it.

BornIn1500
Member
Posts: 501
Joined: Tue May 08, 2018 10:04 pm

Re: What makes a metal a metal

Postby BornIn1500 » Fri Jun 26, 2020 12:31 am

Larrin wrote:
Thu Jun 25, 2020 5:16 am
The whole angle on discovering what a metal is might just be a spin to give broader appeal to a pretty specific experiment.
A spin to get a piece of that juicy government grant money funneled to the school, which funded this study.


Return to “Spyderco General Discussion”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Bing [Bot], blueblur, Google [Bot], JD Spydo, jensh, Joshcrutchley1, kurt_r, Spydergirl88, TomAiello and 62 guests