Serration Disappointment

[Wartstein]

I have found for most purposes, a combo edge blade works wonders. I think a lot of people look at combo edge knives as two different sections of blade to use for two different tasks. I have always found that the biggest upside of having a 50/50 split of edge types is that the teeth of a serrated edge "bite" into the material and really get the cut started, allowing the plain edge portion to gain access and complete the cut cleanly. This obviously doesn't work for everything you cut but as a general EDC/Utility blade, I thoroughly enjoy the benefits of a CE blade.

Good points! I also think that for the majority of "just wanting to cut / to part something-taks" a comboedge works just fine, and sometimes even better than a plain edge (even) if you utilize the whole edge (so SE and PE part) in one single cut.

Maybe not so much if one wants to do a very precise, clean and controlled cut, but for "just" cutting cardboard, food, rope or whatever a CE blade is more than adequate.

That´s also why I really like my comboedge Delica. Many people say something like: " A comboedge is no good on a short blade, cause one does not get enough of both SE and PE". I don´t find that to be the case, cause for most cuts I can use the whole lenght of the edge (so PE and SE part) in one single motion anyway for everyday cutting.

If my combo edge Delica has limits, than they are more due to the sabre grind (for example a bit "wedgy" when cutting an apple) and not the combo edge.
And for "emergency situations" I always have that comboedge part, that will still "cut" or at least "tear apart" stuff long after a plain edge would be to dull for that...

[Wartstein]

....
I would also argue that the serrations ARE on the best side of the blade (if your are right handed) and this is my reasoning: When you use a chisel with the bevel outwards (IE flat part against the material) the blade just wants to cut more and more down into the material. With the bevel down towards the material it is easier to cut into, and then out from the material, effectively "taking a bite" out of the material. It lets you control the depth of the cut easier. If you are holding the material with your left hand and using the knife with your right hand this lets you take "a bite" out of the material instead of just going deeper and getting stuck.

I have a chisel ground knife with the bevel on the opposite side when compared to a Spyderco and I find that to less useful in practice.

Very interesting and good point, thanks! You might very well be right, sounds logical...

[Pancake]

Grip the handle hardeeeeeer!

[The Deacon]

Not a fan of chisel grinds, so haven't really looked at enough of them to know, but how many knife companies making chisel ground plain edge folders make them ground "correctly" for right hand users? How many make chisel ground plain edge fixed blades that way? Customs may be a different story, but the only "correct" chisel grinds I can recall seeing on production knives were on Japanese kitchen knives. Everything else was done for show rather than for go.

[The Deacon]

I would also argue that the serrations ARE on the best side of the blade (if your are right handed) and this is my reasoning: When you use a chisel with the bevel outwards (IE flat part against the material) the blade just wants to cut more and more down into the material. With the bevel down towards the material it is easier to cut into, and then out from the material, effectively "taking a bite" out of the material. It lets you control the depth of the cut easier. If you are holding the material with your left hand and using the knife with your right hand this lets you take "a bite" out of the material instead of just going deeper and getting stuck.

Depends on what you are cutting and how you are cutting it.

If I want to take thin slices off the end of a block of cheese I would want the flat side of the blade toward the block and the slice on the chisel ground side. For a right handed person, that would be most naturally accomplished by cutting from the right end of the block with a knife with the chisel on the right and the flat on the left. That way the "new" end of the block has been cut square, and the slice has naturally peeled away from the block. OTOH, if I'm cutting that same block in half, it doesn't matter which side the chisel grind is on, one of the cut edges or the other is going to look wonky.

Chopping a tree limb, no difference, making a fuzz stick/feather stick, quite a bit of difference. Opening the mail, no difference, scraping a gasket off a flat surface, big difference.

[ChrisinHove]

I have the Cooks Knives K11 in both PE and SE.

If I pull the SE out of the knife block in error, I rarely bother to put it back now in preference to the PE, whereas I will more often put the PE back to get the SE....

I’m right handed and have just got used to using it.

[Doc Dan]

I would also argue that the serrations ARE on the best side of the blade (if your are right handed) and this is my reasoning: When you use a chisel with the bevel outwards (IE flat part against the material) the blade just wants to cut more and more down into the material. With the bevel down towards the material it is easier to cut into, and then out from the material, effectively "taking a bite" out of the material. It lets you control the depth of the cut easier. If you are holding the material with your left hand and using the knife with your right hand this lets you take "a bite" out of the material instead of just going deeper and getting stuck.

Depends on what you are cutting and how you are cutting it.

If I want to take thin slices off the end of a block of cheese I would want the flat side of the blade toward the block and the slice on the chisel ground side. For a right handed person, that would be most naturally accomplished by cutting from the right end of the block with a knife with the chisel on the right and the flat on the left. That way the "new" end of the block has been cut square, and the slice has naturally peeled away from the block. OTOH, if I'm cutting that same block in half, it doesn't matter which side the chisel grind is on, one of the cut edges or the other is going to look wonky.

Chopping a tree limb, no difference, making a fuzz stick/feather stick, quite a bit of difference. Opening the mail, no difference, scraping a gasket off a flat surface, big difference.

Yep. I could not agree more.

[tonijedi]

I think one does need to get used to serrations, and that they are better for some things rather than others, but for example for feather sticks they work well. In fact, they work better than expected and I dare to say a word out SE works much better than a worn out PE for feather sticks.

[Jazz]

They're definitely on the right side of the blade, if you're right handed., especially for whittling. You don't get the blade digging in the wood, etc. too much. Easier to angle the blade away from what you're cutting than into it, to keep it cutting straight. You just get used to it. It's probably just too new to you, using them?

[The Mastiff]

I don't like chisel ground PE blades but the SE edges have always worked great for me when I use them. For whatever reason I don't think of Spyderco SE as chisel ground. I'm surprised you weren't aware what you were getting. They are the same basic designs as the one I bought way back in 1992. No surprises really.

[James Y]

I’ve never had any problems with Spyderco serrations because of the side they’re ground on. If I’ve ever had a problem, it was due to the points and scallops of a certain model maybe being a little too deep/pointy/aggressive, which in some cases tends to tear or snag on what I’m cutting, or sometimes causes the tips of the teeth to bend/roll. But I haven’t had any issues because they’re only ground on one side.

I do use Victorinox kitchen knives, and the two serrated ones I use have the serrations ground on the non-presentation side. Those work great, too, but for me, it’s probably more to do with the extremely thin blade stock and their serrations being a gentle, wavy pattern than which side they’re ground into.

The only “chisel-ground” knives I’ve actually disliked in use have been Emersons, and that has much to do with the overall blade thickness and geometry. I know a lot of people like them, but they just do not perform for me the way I want a knife to perform. And I shouldn’t have to “get the knack” for using a knife blade properly. The “chisel-edges” of Spyderco’s serrations have a much thinner cross-section, and the overall blade geometries tend to be thinner, or at least lead to thinner edge geometry, making them far more efficient cutters (IMO).

Jim

[tonijedi]

Well, dam it, I'll just use my SE Salt 2 to dice the onions and cut the parsley for tonight's dinner (clams).

[zuludelta]

I have found for most purposes, a combo edge blade works wonders. I think a lot of people look at combo edge knives as two different sections of blade to use for two different tasks. I have always found that the biggest upside of having a 50/50 split of edge types is that the teeth of a serrated edge "bite" into the material and really get the cut started, allowing the plain edge portion to gain access and complete the cut cleanly. This obviously doesn't work for everything you cut but as a general EDC/Utility blade, I thoroughly enjoy the benefits of a CE blade.

I agree with this post 1000%. I've used knives for most of my adult working life, and this is one of the reasons why for the longest time I would only consider CE designs for use as my work knife. I also cut a lot of very abrasive rope, webbing, netting, and straps in my previous job, and in my experience, even blunted serrations (regardless of which side they are ground on) will continue cutting those materials long after a plain edge in the same steel has been dulled. I've started to carry PE blades for my work knife now that I don't cut as much rope and netting in my current job but I will stand by the CE blade as a very good choice for a work knife.

[tonijedi]

I have found for most purposes, a combo edge blade works wonders. I think a lot of people look at combo edge knives as two different sections of blade to use for two different tasks. I have always found that the biggest upside of having a 50/50 split of edge types is that the teeth of a serrated edge "bite" into the material and really get the cut started, allowing the plain edge portion to gain access and complete the cut cleanly. This obviously doesn't work for everything you cut but as a general EDC/Utility blade, I thoroughly enjoy the benefits of a CE blade.

I agree with this post 1000%. I've used knives for most of my adult working life, and this is one of the reasons why for the longest time I would only consider CE designs for use as my work knife. I also cut a lot of very abrasive rope, webbing, netting, and straps in my previous job, and in my experience, even blunted serrations (regardless of which side they are ground on) will continue cutting those materials long after a plain edge in the same steel has been dulled. I've started to carry PE blades for my work knife now that I don't cut as much rope and netting in my current job but I will stand by the CE blade as a very good choice for a work knife.

I agree CE makes a great working knife. I'd like to see the Salt 2 in CE.

[Evil D]

I thought I wanted serrations ground on the back side, because in some situations like trying to carve something it would put the flat side of the blade down against the material (as a righty). However I think for sharpening purposes I'm stronger at holding a blade steady on the presentation side and since serrations are sharpened with an offset ratio of strokes that favor the ground side, I can live with them being ground on the front. Practically speaking I've been carrying SE exclusively now for about 2.5 years and haven't run into any day to day situations where this is an issue.

The chisel grind walk is there, but I guess I've just accepted it. It's a minor annoyance that can be countered by holding the knife at at angle in most cases. I've also found that simply not focusing so much about it and just use the knife that I typically don't even notice it (this is especially true if I'm a person who is maybe a little jaded by all the SE trash talk out there and am a little biased towards PE and are looking for reasons to disqualify SE). If you grind the serrations on the other side, then the edge will just walk the other way, and then I guess the lefties are just SOL.

Bottom line is if you're going into SE use with a negative opinion and preconceived notions about how poorly they are to use, then that's probably what you'll experience. It's like one of my favorite quotes;

"Whether you think you can, or you think you can't--you're right."
-Henry Ford

[carrot]

To OP, when I got my very first SpyderEdged knife, a SS Delica, I didn't get it either. I had the same issue with the chisel grind as you did. I tried it for a few things, decided it wasn't to my taste, and sold it.

Ten years later, I decided to give it another shot, with the Tenacious in SE and something finally clicked. Who knows what changed for me, but it really changed. Now well over 50% of my EDC rotation is in SpyderEdge and it's even a similar story in the kitchen.

It does take different cutting technique, and there are some things that are certainly more difficult to do with SE. If you don't have a screamingly sharp edge, SE may tear instead of cut cleanly, and if you don't pay attention, it may veer off to the side when you cut thick materials.

But at the same time, I have noticed the sheer cutting power of SE. The same way you may often use the pointy tip of a PE knife to start a cut, the many teeth of SE start a cut for you, with ease. At the end of a long day, PE might slide off without making the cut, but SE will still separate materials.

Finally, with the Sharpmaker, I have experienced an entire reversal of roles. I used to believe common wisdom that SE was inferior for sharpening, but with the Tri-Angle stones, I find it even easier than PE. At the same time, during these times when we are expected to stay inside, I have been teaching myself to freehand on whetstones. SE is not good for that, at all.

You'll probably learn to love SE if you keep at it. If not, no worries, SE will be there tomorrow, next week, or next decade whenever you're ready to try it out again.

[sal]

Hi Ugaarguy,

I have been studying, sharpening, building, refining, improving, using and selling serrated edges for more than 40 years. I brought them onto the knife world. I have sold millions of them to thousands of satisfied customers. I have done all of this with much thought, study, testing and use.

Now you buy your first serrated knife and the first day you get it, you say that all of these years I have been doing it wrong.

Whodathunk?

[justjohn]

While the OP is certainly entitled to his opinion I feel compelled to say that from my experience(s) I've learned to do my research before buying a tool. Once purchased, if the tool does not function as I deem appropriate I look at it, still in hand; and realize I'm attached to it...…...More often than not the cause of my frustration is evident. This was not meant as a personal attack, rather a possible solution to a concern. OP, best of luck to you with your next Spyderco purchase! :D

[Sumdumguy]

The side on which the grind is made on a chisel grind, only matters on certain kitchen knives(ex: vegetable slicers).

[Evil D]

Whodathunk?