M390 vs 20CV vs 204P - 3rd Generation Powder Metallurgy

[Larrin]

I wrote an article describing the difference in process between different powder metallurgy production companies making knife steels. I also did experiments to analyze the different products including carbide size, impurity levels, and inclusions. And comparisons between toughness of similar steels from different manufacturers. https://knifesteelnerds.com/2020/03/30/ ... echnology/

[soulspy]

Nice, Thank you! this is my favorite group of stainless steels!

[Chumango]

Thanks, Larrin, I'm glad you did this. Hopefully this will help dispel the "M390 is better because it is third generation" belief that seems to be common. They all use a third generation process, their own proprietary modification of the second generation process, and call it different things. Only the Europeans use the "generation" name.

[thewoodpecker]

Thanks for the information as alway Larrin. Very informative and educational. Just goes to show you can't always believe the ad copy.

[JRinFL]

Another excellent article! Thank you. It helps dispel the clouds of marketing that hide the mountains of facts.

[TomAiello]

Great article. I've actually done side by side comparisons with PM2s and found that I like 204p the best, but there are so many variables in there (different production runs, etc). It's great to see some science. Thanks Larrin!

[awa54]

Thanks Larrin, great article!

[sal]

Thanx Larrin,

Good stuff.

sal

[blueblur]

Great article. Thank you.

[Calicoast]

Good stuff Larrin!
Always enjoy the read / science behind it.
My PM2 CTS-204P performs at a high level.

C

[soc_monki]

Always makes me laugh when people say they prefer one over another. I don't have any 204p, but have a lot of 20cv, and some m390. It's all good stuff!

[kennethsime]

So for the less-literate amongst us, yes Bohler makes cleaner steel with fewer impurities & inclusions, but carbide content makes a much bigger difference in steel performance and they're all very good.

Right?

[gull wing]

Good stuff, thank you.
My experience is limited. With the knives I have, I like the M390 best because it's a Para 3, great HT and grind.
My only 20CV not so much, of course it's "another" brand, and a Co that is known for a soft HT and no full flat grind.
I have a Southard in 204P that is quite good.
Got to get another CPM 20CV.

[TkoK83Spy]

Best of all worlds :)

I haven't given the Military much use yet, until this week when it will be my only knife carried. The 20CV Manix was very impressive a few weeks ago, the M390 Para 3 I actually chipped the blade last year when hitting a hidden copper staple in a box. I've had it blunt a little easier than other knives in "lesser" steels as well. It's surprised me a bit, and not in a good way. Not terrible, but hasn't ever performed like the "mighty M390" I had always heard about.

[Larrin]

Thanks everybody this was a really fun comparison to do. I always assumed the differences were bigger than they are.

[Theldraskien]

Thanks for all your amazing work, Larrin. I feel lucky to have gotten into this hobby at a time when so much solid science is being done.

Quick question that may have been answered before - any chance we’ll see S90V and S110V added to the comparison charts? I’ve been curious how their toughness/hardness compare since the corrosion tests comparing them to this family of steels.

[Chumango]

Another good comparison would be between S90V and CTS-20CP.

[Larrin]

Thanks for all your amazing work, Larrin. I feel lucky to have gotten into this hobby at a time when so much solid science is being done.

Quick question that may have been answered before - any chance we’ll see S90V and S110V added to the comparison charts? I’ve been curious how their toughness/hardness compare since the corrosion tests comparing them to this family of steels.

I heat treated S90V and S110V samples last August-September and sent them to someone for machining. Still waiting for them.

[araneae]

Just curious, do the foundries ever respond to your publications?

[Larrin]

Just curious, do the foundries ever respond to your publications?

Not publicly. I've talked to people from Crucible or formerly from Crucible for several articles. I talked to the designer of XHP from Carpenter when writing that article. I've never heard from anyone at Bohler or Uddeholm.