Grail Achieved, Slight Issue.

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Sumdumguy
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Re: Grail Achieved, Slight Issue.

Postby Sumdumguy » Thu Mar 12, 2020 4:28 pm

Well, I spoke to Charlynn this afternoon. They MIGHT be able to do something if I sent it in, but no guarantees. Understandable.

I'm going to check with a couple more people and then decide what to do

I may keep it and take the hit myself, so someone else doesn't have to experience this heartbreak, haha.

If I do, I'll send it in to Spyderco and see what they have to say.

P.S. Charlynn was a pleasure to chat with! She was very knowledgeable, patient and helpful. Awesome job, I couldn't have asked for better service.

Robishere
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Re: Grail Achieved, Slight Issue.

Postby Robishere » Thu Mar 12, 2020 6:23 pm

Hold on. Now the titanium handled and to some degree the stainless are quite soft. They scratch and gouge very easily.
I would think it would be a matter of thousandths of an inch you need the lock to move forward to not engage so far. If you exhaust every other resource....I would take the scale/frame off with the lock bar, put it on the anvil or vise, and use a flat bottomed punch and whack it near the end of the lock bar and massage out the end further, using the punch on the INSIDE of the lock bar and keeping the outside nice and flat. That would lengthen it a hair. Keep test fitting till you are happy. Sand and polish any minor distortion.
Adding a lock insert would put lots of pressure on the lock bar and blade and be hard to open and when it locked it would be extremely difficult to unlock and get the blade past it.
Ill bet about 8-10 whacks with a punch would gain you plenty. If you go too far you can always grind a wee bit off. That will solve your play issue as well.
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Liquid Cobra
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Re: Grail Achieved, Slight Issue.

Postby Liquid Cobra » Thu Mar 12, 2020 7:05 pm

Not that this helps but this is one of the main reasons I stopped chasing older Spyderco knives. I would get my hands on an older model that was great in so many ways, but I could see the lessons Spyderco has learned that we’re missing from the older knife. That’s not really your case here as it’s a functional issue. But I remember when I got my hands on an original ATR that I was disappointed when I realized it didn’t have a detent ball and used nylon washers. Honestly, it just took me by surprise. I guess I should have expected it because it was older but I just didn’t know any better. Functionally it was operation and a great tool. But for the $400 I paid it was hard to put it to work.
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Sumdumguy
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Re: Grail Achieved, Slight Issue.

Postby Sumdumguy » Thu Mar 12, 2020 7:28 pm

Robishere wrote:
Thu Mar 12, 2020 6:23 pm
Peening it would probably work, but I'm not setup for doing it and that wouldn't be a real fix, as it can come back again through use.

The idea of the SS insert was to do a modification and tune on it, to fix the flaw. The inserts lockface would be matched and distanced to the blade itself and lockup as if it never had the issue, theoretically. It all depends on if I can find the proper craftsman to perform the modification.

Until I send it out, I'm just armchair quarterbackin'!

What I'll ultimately decide, I don't know. But I do know that I like the stupid thing...
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N. Brian Huegel
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Re: Grail Achieved, Slight Issue.

Postby N. Brian Huegel » Thu Mar 12, 2020 7:58 pm

I have fixed a number of liner and a few compression locks (Spyderco, Benchmade, ZT, etc.) with this issue by loosening the stop pin retention screws and turning 90°(up to 180°). Many times the stop pin becomes distorted and/or worn due to excessive slamming to opening or just long tern wear and tear. If this does not work one could have the stop pin remade a few thousandths larger. I suppose one could also compress or peen the stop pin to expand and thus shorten the lock-up distance.

In the past, several high-end makers made a variety of progressive stop pins (+/1 .001", .002", .003", ...) in order to overcome tolerance inconsistencies in linerlock ramp machining, linerlock length, etc. I have also seen eccentric stop pins and super thin sleeves put over stop pins to correct adjustment.

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JacksonKnives
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Re: Grail Achieved, Slight Issue.

Postby JacksonKnives » Thu Mar 12, 2020 8:56 pm

N. Brian Huegel wrote:
Thu Mar 12, 2020 7:58 pm
If this does not work one could have the stop pin remade a few thousandths larger. I suppose one could also compress or peen the stop pin to expand and thus shorten the lock-up distance.
++

This would be my next stop as well, if leery of peening the lockbar on a hard-to-replace design.
—Daniel Jackson

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curlyhairedboy
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Re: Grail Achieved, Slight Issue.

Postby curlyhairedboy » Fri Mar 13, 2020 3:23 am

yeah, elliptical stop pins might be a first, nondestructive solution here.
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Sumdumguy
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Re: Grail Achieved, Slight Issue.

Postby Sumdumguy » Fri Mar 13, 2020 4:38 am

Thanks for the ideas, guys!

I'm going to go ahead and send it to Spyderco. It can't hurt!
If that doesn't work, I'll start pounding the pavement, looking for someone to perform the mod.

N. Brian Huegel
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Re: Grail Achieved, Slight Issue.

Postby N. Brian Huegel » Sat Mar 14, 2020 9:15 am

Making an elliptical stop pin takes a lot more skill than a corrected symmetrical round one. If you open the knife and hold the blade so that there is a 50% overlap at the intersection of the tang and titanium lockbar, you could use a modified feeler gauge to determine the the additional diameter of the stop pin. It would probably be easier to just make one a few thousandths larger and see how it works, then make another a thousandths or two larger or smaller. A gunsmith, machinist or perhaps a watchmaker should be able to make a new stop pin.

brian

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sal
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Re: Grail Achieved, Slight Issue.

Postby sal » Sat Mar 14, 2020 9:31 am

Thanx Brian,

While difficult, it is also possible to add material to the bottom of the lock interface, such as carburizing.

sal

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VooDooChild
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Re: Grail Achieved, Slight Issue.

Postby VooDooChild » Sat Mar 14, 2020 11:51 am

Can you peen out titanium?

Better yet, you got a drill press. You could attempt to drill some holes in the lockbar. Somehow find some thread inserts. Somehow stick those in... (epoxy). And then put in a cut and grinded sacrificial steel insert from a gas station frame lock..... maybe
.
Edit.
Ok for get that. Pull the blade off. JB weld a thin cut piece of steel on the bottom of the tang cutout where the bottom of the lockbar interfaces the tang. Repeat this 100 times until you get lucky and get it right.
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sal
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Re: Grail Achieved, Slight Issue.

Postby sal » Mon May 18, 2020 5:20 pm

We tested elliptical stop pins and found that it changes the tip location when the knife is open. We ended up making adjustable pivots for a while.

sal

Sumdumguy
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Re: Grail Achieved, Slight Issue.

Postby Sumdumguy » Mon May 18, 2020 5:50 pm

I still haven't gotten around to sending it in, but I believe I've figured out the issue. It seems that the stop pin is too small.

When open, the lock bottoms out and the blade has play. When closed, the blade hits the lanyard hole before the kick hits the stop pin.

That's the only logical thing I can come up with.


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